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Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17490
Posted: July 28 2016 at 15:59
I have zero issue with what Trump said about the deleted emails, it was a joke and I am sure it was not the first time someone has thought the same..How do we get those emails?
And really what is the big concern, since supposedly the emails were all about personal stuff, nothing of security matters were in the 33,000 deleted emails?? But yet the Hillary camp made a point to state what Trump said would be a "national security issue"....Why? Maybe the Clinton camp is admitting some of those emails had work related content, which I am sure they did.
Seems like Trump set out a bait hook and the Clinton camp chewed on it.......
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20478
Posted: July 29 2016 at 03:54
Catcher10 wrote:
SteveG wrote:
^I've never trusted any politician Jose. They are what they are. Is Trump somehow better?
100% agree......I am not making any case for him as candidate, only what we all know about Hillary Clinton and Bill as public officials.
If Trump is elected I highly doubt he will do anything like what the Clinton's have done while in public office....Do you think he would?
Yes I do. But the bottom line is that we're old friends on this site and I respect your right to vote for whoever you like, regardless of how I may feel about him or her. Viva democracy!
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17490
Posted: July 29 2016 at 11:37
SteveG wrote:
Catcher10 wrote:
SteveG wrote:
^I've never trusted any politician Jose. They are what they are. Is Trump somehow better?
100% agree......I am not making any case for him as candidate, only what we all know about Hillary Clinton and Bill as public officials.
If Trump is elected I highly doubt he will do anything like what the Clinton's have done while in public office....Do you think he would?
Yes I do. But the bottom line is that we're old friends on this site and I respect your right to vote for whoever you like, regardless of how I may feel about him or her. Viva democracy!
Joined: August 17 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4659
Posted: July 30 2016 at 02:20
Giant meteor/Zombie.
Actually for the first time in 36 years me and my now mandated state-issued ID card (thanks GOP) are going down to the polls not to vote for someone I believe in, but rather against a buffoon/anarchy. It sickens me that among our 330,000,000 citizens (and one Canadian senator), this is the best we can do. No matter what happens this president will have less of a popular mandate than any in history, except possibly Ford who wasn't even elected in the first place.
Clinton/Kaine and hopefully all our 18 year olds won't be dead on a battlefield somewhere when we get a chance to get it right in 2020.
Joined: January 26 2008
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4335
Posted: July 30 2016 at 11:36
Would be nice if all the justified hatred of each of the "major" party candidates could be used to back the only other candidate that could mathematically win but noooooooo, the ridiculous "a vote for him is a vote for..." bullsh*t has been so deeply ingrained in the mush-minds of the electorate we'll never break free of this republican/democrat nonsense. I'm aware Gary Johnson isn't a perfect candidate, by any means, but he sure as hell beats the neocon criminal the democrats are running and the ignorant fascist the republicans have selected.
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Posted: September 04 2016 at 02:37
manofmystery wrote:
Would be nice if all the justified hatred of each of the "major" party candidates could be used to back the only other candidate that could mathematically win but noooooooo, the ridiculous "a vote for him is a vote for..." bullsh*t has been so deeply ingrained in the mush-minds of the electorate we'll never break free of this republican/democrat nonsense. I'm aware Gary Johnson isn't a perfect candidate, by any means, but he sure as hell beats the neocon criminal the democrats are running and the ignorant fascist the republicans have selected.
The problem is not thepartisan two-party "nonsense", it's the plurality voting system that creates a two-party system, not the other way around. Similarly the wasted-vote "bullsh*t" is a consequence of the voting system, not the mind-set of the voting public. It is also the voting system that creates and enables tactical voting, where voting for the lesser of two evils is always a safer bet than voting for any third candidate in avoiding the worst of two evils winning. First-past-the-post and other simple plurality systems also mean that gerrymandering and other 'legal' voter-manipulation methods work at all - these tactics are not just designed to ensure that a particular party wins, they also ensure that a third party remains in third place.
All of these are "applied mathematics" and they negate any "theoretical mathematics" anyone may be using to convince anyone else that a third candidate could win - mathematically a third candidate can win 49.99% of the popular vote and still not win a single state. This is not the fault of the voting public and it is not born out of their ignorance, stupidity or blind allegiance to one of the two major parties.
StateTrumpClinton Johnson
151%0%49%
20%51%49%
30%51%49%
40%51%49%
551%0%49%
60%51%49%
751%0%49%
80%51%49%
90%51%49%
1051%0%49%
States won460
Popular vote20%31%49%
[edit: If we extrapolate this to 50 states with Clinton winning 26 to Trump's 24 and Johnson coming 2nd in all of them then the popular vote percentages look even worse: Trump: 24%, Clinton 27% and Johnson 49%]
So Clinton wins the Presidency by winning 60% of states despite only having 31% of the public voting for her. Johnson claims the moral victory but goes home with nothing. There is nothing here that will encourage either Republican or Democrats to change or reform the system because it works just fine for them, even the losing Republicans will want to retain the FPTP system because they won 40% of the states with only 20% of the popular vote. The same is true for House of Representative and Congress elections - Libertarians (or Greeens) can secure 49% of the popular vote without winning a single seat - this is not a system that the winning or second-place party will ever want to change.
'FPTP' guarantees that someone will win and in a Presidential election that is exactly the outcome that is required so alternatives are hard to find, the down-side is that President will always come from one of the two major parties because it is a plurality system.
Therefore only viable way a third candidate can win is by their party becoming the one of the two major parties, and the reality of that is a long way off yet even with the apparent/alleged decline of either of them (and their candidates). Then, and only then, can they start winning states in a Presidential election.
You cannot defeat this system in the ballot box, it can only be through electoral-reform, but as I have shown, neither Republicans nor Democrats would benefit from that so it will never happen.
BUT - keep voting Libertarian, Green, Independent or spoil your ballot because that is your right, just don't blame the voters when your candidate does not win because it's not their fault, it's the system.
Joined: December 27 2014
Location: Norwalk, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 9319
Posted: September 04 2016 at 14:27
Atavachron wrote:
TeleStrat wrote:
I certainly don't want four (or eight) more years of business as usual.
Really? Sounds pretty good to me if that means another four to eight years of Obama politics. Careful what you wish for, it might happen.
I am not a fan of Obama's politics and less of a fan of Clinton's politics.
I am a Conservative and have been since the late sixties. I don't get into many political discussions here because there is nothing anyone can say that will ever change my mind.
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 64338
Posted: September 04 2016 at 22:24
TeleStrat wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
TeleStrat wrote:
I certainly don't want four (or eight) more years of business as usual.
Really? Sounds pretty good to me if that means another four to eight years of Obama politics. Careful what you wish for, it might happen.
I am not a fan of Obama's politics and less of a fan of Clinton's politics. I am a Conservative and have been since the late sixties. I don't get into many political discussions here because there is nothing anyone can say that will ever change my mind.
I do have to say Trump could be, if he wanted, an excellent conservative candidate: he's smart, savvy, and can't really be bought 'cause he has all the money. On the other hand if he hadn't run on his current platform he probably wouldn't be the nominee.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
Joined: December 27 2014
Location: Norwalk, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 9319
Posted: September 05 2016 at 00:20
^^^ I agree about Trump's platform. His "followers" already existed before he came along. They were waiting for any candidate who was bold enough to push their issues to the forefront during the primaries.
Looking back at the original group of candidates I can't think of one that could have pulled it off the way Trump did.
He is showing signs of settling down a bit and occasionally acting somewhat presidential. This has to be worrying the Clinton camp since they already have their hands full with those pesky email problems that just won't go away and the Clinton Foundation.
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