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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2016 at 03:24
Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

I am a huge fan of Camel. Unfortunately Camel is underrated band and I don't know why?!
With Mirage at 17, Moonmadness 19th and The Snow Goose in 50th place on PA's user generated top 100 who exactly is it that underrates them? Rock journalists? Punks? Adolescents? They're surely not underrated by prog fans. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2016 at 03:24
Hi. I talk about my opinion and I stand on it. I mean they MUST have more fans. Camel have many "Masterpieces" but they don't have many fans! I don't want to fight about "Underrated" word!  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kingsnake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2016 at 03:26
Sure, you can have your opinion. But when you put your opinion in a forum, you have to understand that not anybody agrees.

If you don't wat to dicuss your opinion, don't put in a forum.

I still absolutely don't agree that Camel is underrated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2016 at 03:39
Thanks for teaching me about "Forum" ! I said I don't want to fight about Underrated word BUT I stand on my opinion. I love Camel so much and I wrote my opinion under "The Camel Appreciation Thread" topic. You can't push me out  because of my opposite opinion. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kingsnake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2016 at 03:45
I was not looking for a fight, and I don't understand your hostility.
Maybe we just have to stop this conversation, so maintain the peace, adn talk about Camel's music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2016 at 03:45
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

I am a huge fan of Camel. Unfortunately Camel is underrated band and I don't know why?!
With Mirage at 17, Moonmadness 19th and The Snow Goose in 50th place on PA's user generated top 100 who exactly is it that underrates them? Rock journalists? Punks? Adolescents? They're surely not underrated by prog fans. 
Thanks. As you said "The Snow Goose in 50th place on ...". Why 50th? 50th place is a fair place for "The Snow Goose" in your opinion but I don't think like you. This mean there are 49 albums that better than "The Snow Goose". I really like to know about those 49 albums! 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2016 at 03:50
Originally posted by Kingsnake Kingsnake wrote:

I was not looking for a fight, and I don't understand your hostility.
Maybe we just have to stop this conversation, so maintain the peace, adn talk about Camel's music.
Agree. This may make misunderstanding (my English isn't good enough I guess!). We love Camel and this is important. Thumbs Up 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kingsnake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2016 at 04:08
I think that a lot of progrockbands have better vocalists than Camel; Yes, King Crimson, Genesis, Pink Floyd etc.
Maybe that's why the albums are rated slightly lower than others.

On the other hand, Camel never had a hitsingle, as with other bands, they all had 1 or more hitsucces.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2016 at 08:09
Hi. Now you can compare this thread with another "Appreciation Threads" like BJH (another great band) that you made it. I really love BJH or "The Flower Kings" or ... 
Honestly , I don't know why . You mentioned to a very good point about Vocalists. Vocals is important and I agree with you but it's can't be "The Only" reason. Camel create great stuffs . They have many Masterpieces. Their music is Technical and Emotional . Andy's Guitar sound and style is unique and impressive. BUT they don't have enough! fans. I still stand on my opinion about their fans number (underrated! or something like it).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2016 at 20:55
There may be many prog bands with better vocalists than Camel... but Camel's vocals have never bothered me. Their limitations can actually make them rather charming. I have heard songs from them (from the 80's, I think) with Chris Rainbow (who I have heard with Alan Parsons Project and really liked how he sang, but didn't really sound the same with Camel anyway), whom I guess most would agree is a better singer than Latimer (Latimer himself would agree, I suppose). However, the songs just don't work, they lost their charm. Actually, I like Camels vocals more than John Wetton's or Peter Gabriel's, and I believe there would be people saying they prefere them over Jon Anderson or Peter Hamill... or even Phil Collins.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magnum Vaeltaja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2016 at 23:03
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

There may be many prog bands with better vocalists than Camel... but Camel's vocals have never bothered me. Their limitations can actually make them rather charming. I have heard songs from them (from the 80's, I think) with Chris Rainbow (who I have heard with Alan Parsons Project and really liked how he sang, but didn't really sound the same with Camel anyway), whom I guess most would agree is a better singer than Latimer (Latimer himself would agree, I suppose). However, the songs just don't work, they lost their charm. Actually, I like Camels vocals more than John Wetton's or Peter Gabriel's, and I believe there would be people saying they prefere them over Jon Anderson or Peter Hamill... or even Phil Collins.

Honestly, I'm not sure why people really complain about the vocals on the classic Camel records; they give exactly what the music asks for. Could you imagine a voice like Jon Anderson trying to sing The White Rider or Peter Gabriel trying to belt out Song Within A Song? I'm laughing just thinking about how ridiculous that would sound. Latimer is a perfect singer for the band. His voice is every bit as smooth and subdued as the music he sings on top of.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kingsnake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2016 at 01:41
I'm just stating what I overheard people complaining about.

I myself am a huge fan of the Andy's voice (and Colin's aswell).
To be honest, there's a certain style to their voices.
When you don't know wich bandmember sings wich song, it's hard to tell if Doug, Peter or Andy is singing (on Camel or Moonmadness).

The same goes for Nude. Is it Andy or Colin singing? Hard to say.

Richard Sinclair was a nice vocalist for the band on Rain Dances and Breathless, sharing vocals with Andy. It works very well, but didn't bring the band huge success.
The ratings even go down, when compared to the first four albums.
 
You were right about Chris Rainbow. He just didn't fit the band. The same goes for the one-time-only vocals of Doug Patton (on Heroes).
 
Don't get me wrong, I never stated that Andy couldn't sing. I like his warm and soothing voice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2016 at 09:45
I am a Camel HUGE fan and ofcourse I like Camel's vocalists . I like to know opinions about :  
Why they don't have big number of fans in PA ?! Many of Progressive Rock fans ignore Camel easily. Many of Prog fans never count Camel as a "Great Band" or "Prog Giant" in Prog history , bands like King Crimson , Genesis , Yes , ELP , Pink Floyd , ... and I don't know WHY?!. 
Camel is not a "Mid Level" band . They are a "High Level" band IMO. They impressed Prog Rock music scene during their career. They deserve to known more than now. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2016 at 17:26
I enjoy Camel's vocals overall, as they complement the music.  But I suppose, because of the vocals, they lacked the bombast of Genesis, King Crimson, VDGG, ELP, Gentle Giant, Yes, Tull.  The only huge prog band they compare with vocally might be Floyd, in the sense that Floyd vocals are more blues based and not as dramatic as most of the big 6, 7 or whatever, although Gilmour is technically better than the Andies or Bardens.  

I think it's an exercise in futility to try to figure out why one's favorite bands didn't hit it big.  It's just people's tastes and the effectiveness of the promotion.  If I was to thuink about it, it seems like my liking a band is the kiss of death, because lots of my favorites remained obscure or missed at sustained success while it seems like the bands I didn't care for as much went onward and upward!  But part of that might be that too much success can taint a group, not that they gio downhill, but just that they seem to lose some of that cachet that goes with obscurity.  So enjoy Camel I say, and, if you must, think about how relatively popular they were when compared to anybody but the biggest acts, with something like 9 consecutive albums on the UK album charts, right through 1984, something not many prog bands did, while staying prog


Edited by kenethlevine - September 22 2016 at 17:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2016 at 20:50
Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

I am a Camel HUGE fan and ofcourse I like Camel's vocalists . I like to know opinions about :  
Why they don't have big number of fans in PA ?! Many of Progressive Rock fans ignore Camel easily. Many of Prog fans never count Camel as a "Great Band" or "Prog Giant" in Prog history , bands like King Crimson , Genesis , Yes , ELP , Pink Floyd , ... and I don't know WHY?!. 
Camel is not a "Mid Level" band . They are a "High Level" band IMO. They impressed Prog Rock music scene during their career. They deserve to known more than now. 


Also you can consider that Camel has beat ELP on polls in this site, and nobody can deny that ELP were one of the biggest prog giants back in the 70's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2016 at 22:32
I stumbled on an excellent BBC retrospective show on prog.  OK it's tongue in cheek and ironic at times, poking a bit of fun at the bombast, but it seems to be fondly remembering when prog ruled the waves
It featured 10 British acts, one of which was our Camel (ok, so it was number 10, but still...), apparently based on time in the UK album charts
if you want to go right to Camel, they are around minute 6






Edited by kenethlevine - September 22 2016 at 22:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote noni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2016 at 00:59
Originally posted by Kingsnake Kingsnake wrote:

I'm just stating what I overheard people complaining about.

I myself am a huge fan of the Andy's voice (and Colin's aswell).
To be honest, there's a certain style to their voices.
When you don't know wich bandmember sings wich song, it's hard to tell if Doug, Peter or Andy is singing (on Camel or Moonmadness).

The same goes for Nude. Is it Andy or Colin singing? Hard to say.

Richard Sinclair was a nice vocalist for the band on Rain Dances and Breathless, sharing vocals with Andy. It works very well, but didn't bring the band huge success.
The ratings even go down, when compared to the first four albums.
 
You were right about Chris Rainbow. He just didn't fit the band. The same goes for the one-time-only vocals of Doug Patton (on Heroes).
 
Don't get me wrong, I never stated that Andy couldn't sing. I like his warm and soothing voice.

I would say that the last albums Camel have done since setting up Camel Productions, Andy's voice is the best we've heard from him.  His singing warrants each track from those albums. All 100% Andy's voice.  I'm really surprised how Colin can sing like Andy, as done in most concerts.  He has earned himself the honour on certain tracks being good at what he does.  The pair go well together and while Colin can take all vocal duties to Camel in concerts,  one track will always be Andy's and thats Lady Fantasy.



Edited by noni - September 23 2016 at 01:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote noni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2016 at 01:11
Originally posted by Magnum Vaeltaja Magnum Vaeltaja wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

There may be many prog bands with better vocalists than Camel... but Camel's vocals have never bothered me. Their limitations can actually make them rather charming. I have heard songs from them (from the 80's, I think) with Chris Rainbow (who I have heard with Alan Parsons Project and really liked how he sang, but didn't really sound the same with Camel anyway), whom I guess most would agree is a better singer than Latimer (Latimer himself would agree, I suppose). However, the songs just don't work, they lost their charm. Actually, I like Camels vocals more than John Wetton's or Peter Gabriel's, and I believe there would be people saying they prefere them over Jon Anderson or Peter Hamill... or even Phil Collins.

Honestly, I'm not sure why people really complain about the vocals on the classic Camel records; they give exactly what the music asks for. Could you imagine a voice like Jon Anderson trying to sing The White Rider or Peter Gabriel trying to belt out Song Within A Song? I'm laughing just thinking about how ridiculous that would sound. Latimer is a perfect singer for the band. His voice is every bit as smooth and subdued as the music he sings on top of.

I agree, the music and vocalist suit the music.  Like what you said about Jon Anderson and Peter Gabriel  singing on a Camel track, would not work.  Also on those earlier albums they did, it was not all Latimer but Peter Bardens.  They Both shared the same style with those leading vocalist duties.  Peter's singing voice is nothing like his voice in Camel, as  some of you might well know hearing Peter's solo's!...



Edited by noni - September 23 2016 at 01:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote noni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2016 at 01:43
Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

I am a huge fan of Camel. Unfortunately Camel is underrated band and I don't know why?!

Originally posted by Kingsnake Kingsnake wrote:

Camel is absolutely not underrated.

Who underrates Camel?

Almost anyone into progrock knows the band, and have at least one favorite album.
I really don't like the term 'underrated'.

I agree with Kingsnake, while references are often used in rating other bands new music with their reviews in DPRP and on this site Prog/Archives,  you will always see Camel mostly used.   Had Camel been more popular in the 70s and should of been on Top of the Pops or other TV shows as regular guests, I'm sure a lot more people would know more about this band.  Genesis were not that popular, until they kept being seen on TV shows and became world wide success with loads of hits.  The same goes with Yes, King Crimson and ELP.  All these bands had huge hits and appeared on TV shows.  Camel never made a hit and stayed with their albums , they only appeared in 2 common UK shows.  So not being able to have the common radio airing as with the other bands I mentioned.  It's a shame really,  had they made a few hits, Camel would be known by more people and even hear their music on local radio stations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2016 at 08:03
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

I am a Camel HUGE fan and ofcourse I like Camel's vocalists . I like to know opinions about :  
Why they don't have big number of fans in PA ?! Many of Progressive Rock fans ignore Camel easily. Many of Prog fans never count Camel as a "Great Band" or "Prog Giant" in Prog history , bands like King Crimson , Genesis , Yes , ELP , Pink Floyd , ... and I don't know WHY?!. 
Camel is not a "Mid Level" band . They are a "High Level" band IMO. They impressed Prog Rock music scene during their career. They deserve to known more than now. 


Also you can consider that Camel has beat ELP on polls in this site, and nobody can deny that ELP were one of the biggest prog giants back in the 70's.
You right about ELP  Thumbs Up . Perhaps Camel beating ELP in some polls in PA , but its not a good measure IMO. Thanks 
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