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selling England by pound

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grantman View Drop Down
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    Posted: December 21 2016 at 15:56
This being the 5 th genesis release the arrangements are more rounded out ,the lyrics more detailed, the theme is of course England or a remembrance of what was England is or was, from the bands point of view.The opening track dancing with the moonlight knight ,i know what like (in your wardrobe)  simply breathtaking, even the phil song more fool me is above par,  all things considered this is one great album sorry but although frith of firth  is an excellent song.Being a guitar nut like myself cinema show and after the ordeal holds up to any standard guitar work of today,s progressive rock bands .Clap

Edited by grantman - December 22 2016 at 13:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2016 at 04:17
^A review or an appreciation thread? If it's the latter, then all I can say is that I feel it's the best Gabriel era Genesis album. I actually haven't listened to it in years, but I know most of it by heart. Glad to see others still enjoying this prog classic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2016 at 05:56
Shouldn't this be posted as a review?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2016 at 07:09
A good album. The best produced and performed of the Gabriel era, but I still prefer the Lamb and Foxtrot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2016 at 08:41
Genesis Selling England By The Pound album cover
If this is a review we need a pic.....;)
Perhaps my favorite Genesis lp (though Fox and Cryme are also as good imho) but I would have left off the 'Phil' song and added a few more minutes to one of the others.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2016 at 09:37
Their best effort, a cohesive well produced album. It is hard to identify an album where all the songs are related and yet each can stand on its own. There is almost nothing negative that can be said of this record.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2016 at 11:32
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Their best effort, a cohesive well produced album. It is hard to identify an album where all the songs are related and yet each can stand on its own. There is almost nothing negative that can be said of this record.

Seriously...? So you actually like More Fool  Me...? Why?

Wink


Edited by dr wu23 - December 22 2016 at 11:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Terrapin Station Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2016 at 16:55
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Their best effort, a cohesive well produced album. It is hard to identify an album where all the songs are related and yet each can stand on its own. There is almost nothing negative that can be said of this record.

Seriously...? So you actually like More Fool  Me...? Why?

Wink


Well, or why don't you like it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Enchlore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2016 at 17:15
I like More Fool Me. It's a cute song and pretty much harmless.

I never got into Battle of Epping Forest, though, despite trying hard. Maybe it needs a few more listens to grow on me. Despite that, the album as a whole is a truly delightful listen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2016 at 19:26
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Their best effort, a cohesive well produced album. It is hard to identify an album where all the songs are related and yet each can stand on its own. There is almost nothing negative that can be said of this record.

Seriously...? So you actually like More Fool  Me...? Why?

Wink

Ha! It's a good question....I am a fan of Collin's singing, I think early on it really showcases him as a lead singer. Maybe he knew what was going to happen in the group. The song itself is very pleasing, acoustic set with the 12-string (Rutherford I assume). Phil's vocals are very upfront, which I like......I picture them recording this song after everyone else has left the studio.

Being that it is the last song on Side I, I actually use it to test my turntable and cartridge setup for inner groove distortion, there is a lot of sibilance in the song with all the sharp Ssss from Phil, the sounds should be very natural and not have any shrill to them. That's when I know my setup is perfect! 

I like the song Clap


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2016 at 19:49
Regarding More Fool Me......I can't say I dislike it but imho the lyrics are banal , the melody is nothing special and the vocals are just mediocre. There's nothing about the song that warrants inclusion on an album imho....well, maybe a Collins solo album. I find it remarkable that Genesis couldn't come up with a more interesting track to fill those 3minutes and 10 seconds.
I hope that doesn't sound too harsh...but there it is.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote zravkapt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2016 at 19:58
Dancing 9/10
I Know 5/10
Firth 9/10
Fool 1/10
Battle 3/10
Ordeal 7/10
Cinema 8/10
Aisle 5/10

Pros: best sounding album up to that point
Cons: More Fool Me and Epping Forest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2016 at 20:45
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Regarding More Fool Me......I can't say I dislike it but imho the lyrics are banal , the melody is nothing special and the vocals are just mediocre. There's nothing about the song that warrants inclusion on an album imho....well, maybe a Collins solo album. I find it remarkable that Genesis couldn't come up with a more interesting track to fill those 3minutes and 10 seconds.
I hope that doesn't sound too harsh...but there it is.
 
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Nope....That's why I like it. It's simple, nothing about England, the Queen, a lawn mower or that English ribs of beef are cut down to 47p per LB. 

It's just a song by Collins and Rutherford.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2016 at 21:25
Originally posted by Enchlore Enchlore wrote:

I like More Fool Me. It's a cute song and pretty much harmless.

I never got into Battle of Epping Forest, though, despite trying hard. Maybe it needs a few more listens to grow on me. Despite that, the album as a whole is a truly delightful listen.


This is very much what I always say about this album. Though I wouldn't go as far as saying I like "More Fool Me", but it's indeed harmless enough, and I don't really dislike it either. And as far as Epping Forest goes, I'm sure that no matter how many times I may listen to it, I just won't get to like it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2016 at 21:29
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Their best effort, a cohesive well produced album. It is hard to identify an album where all the songs are related and yet each can stand on its own. There is almost nothing negative that can be said of this record.


Seriously...? So you actually like More Fool  Me...? Why?

Wink



Ha! It's a good question....I am a fan of Collin's singing, I think early on it really showcases him as a lead singer. Maybe he knew what was going to happen in the group. The song itself is very pleasing, acoustic set with the 12-string (Rutherford I assume). Phil's vocals are very upfront, which I like......I picture them recording this song after everyone else has left the studio.

Being that it is the last song on Side I, I actually use it to test my turntable and cartridge setup for inner groove distortion, there is a lot of sibilance in the song with all the sharp Ssss from Phil, the sounds should be very natural and not have any shrill to them. That's when I know my setup is perfect! 

I like the song Clap


I also like Phil's singing very much... I do like it much better than Gabriel's, but by this point I bet he had no idea he would end up being the lead singer of the band... nor perhaps that he would have a succesful career as a solo singer. As far as I understand, Genesis actually auditioned lot's of singers without succes... I believe it was Phil showing them what and how they should sing, and in the end they just said he should sing them himself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote aglasshouse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2016 at 21:39
It's alright. Not my favorite but I can recognize its quality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2016 at 00:38
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Shouldn't this be posted as a review?
This was briefly discussed here, but the OP hasn't deleted it like I asked him/her to in a PM. It's too late now.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - December 23 2016 at 00:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2016 at 00:45
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Regarding More Fool Me......I can't say I dislike it but imho the lyrics are banal , the melody is nothing special and the vocals are just mediocre. There's nothing about the song that warrants inclusion on an album imho....well, maybe a Collins solo album. I find it remarkable that Genesis couldn't come up with a more interesting track to fill those 3minutes and 10 seconds.
I hope that doesn't sound too harsh...but there it is.
 
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Nope....That's why I like it. It's simple, nothing about England, the Queen, a lawn mower or that English ribs of beef are cut down to 47p per LB. 
LOL

Sorry, but every time I listen to that song, "banal" and "mediocre" don't quite compute in my head. As far as I'm concerned, there are tons of classic songs that can be described as such by some people. You can write something very simple and come out a winner because that which you've created sounds beautiful. 

And I wouldn't subscribe to calling "More Fool Me" saccharine either. (I just know someone who called it that.) My brain just does not recognize excessive sweetness, whatever that means. 




Edited by Dayvenkirq - December 23 2016 at 00:47
"Books were only one type of receptacle where we stored a lot of things we were afraid we might forget. There is nothing magical in them at all. The magic is only in what books say, ... ."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2016 at 04:45
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Regarding More Fool Me......I can't say I dislike it but imho the lyrics are banal , the melody is nothing special and the vocals are just mediocre. There's nothing about the song that warrants inclusion on an album imho....well, maybe a Collins solo album. I find it remarkable that Genesis couldn't come up with a more interesting track to fill those 3minutes and 10 seconds.
I hope that doesn't sound too harsh...but there it is.
 
Stern Smile
  

Nope....That's why I like it. It's simple, nothing about England, the Queen, a lawn mower or that English ribs of beef are cut down to 47p per LB. 

It's just a song by Collins and Rutherford.
Not a favorite song of mine, but harmless enough. I used to lift the needle sometimes to get to side two a bit quicker sometimes. But now that you bring it up, MFM doesn't have that topic of "Englishness" that the other songs on the album possess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Terrapin Station Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2016 at 05:19
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Regarding More Fool Me......I can't say I dislike it but imho the lyrics are banal , the melody is nothing special and the vocals are just mediocre. There's nothing about the song that warrants inclusion on an album imho....well, maybe a Collins solo album. I find it remarkable that Genesis couldn't come up with a more interesting track to fill those 3minutes and 10 seconds.
I hope that doesn't sound too harsh...but there it is.
 
Stern Smile
 
 


Re lyrics, I have no idea about that--I haven't the faintest idea what the lyrics are for that tune, or, for that matter, for the vast majority of music I listen to.  I'm one of those people who normally couldn't care less what any lyrics are, and I usually pay very little attention to lyrics.  I'd never say that something has "bad lyrics."  Ultimately I see lyrics simply as phonemes to sing.  I do pay a lot of attention to vocals, but I'm listening to melody, timbre, phrasing, etc.  You can do that without cognizing the semantic content of lyrics, which is what I typically do.

Re the melody, I think it's rather nice.  I wouldn't say it's a favorite melody of mine or anything earth-shattering or anything like that, but I'd say it's as good as most of the vocal melodies on the album.  (I'd also say that Genesis wrote a lot of their best vocal melodies in the 80s . . . Of course, I'm a fan of solo Phil Collins, too, so . . . )

I also think that "More Fool Me" works perfectly as a bridge between "Firth of Fifth" and "The Battle of Epping Forest".




Edited by Terrapin Station - December 23 2016 at 05:30
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