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Genesis or Pink Floyd album?

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Poll Question: Genesis or Pink Floyd album?
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53 [66.25%]
27 [33.75%]
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Tillerman88 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tillerman88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2017 at 13:44
Originally posted by AZF AZF wrote:

But The Wall walks over Genesis albums.
LOL

The Wall ROCKS over Genesis albums Wink
.
..
Ouch.......forgot I'm on a PROG Rock Forum...........
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mlkpad14 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlkpad14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2017 at 14:01
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by mlkpad14 mlkpad14 wrote:


I've stated openly that I was not around during that time. And, for the last time, I'll tell you that I'm just going off of WHAT I HEARD from many who WERE AROUND during that time.

Yeah man, you said it, but there are books about the issue.

It's better to read it here than to suffer a harsh response by a jerk if you say this in real life.

I assure you, there's absolutely no relation between Pink Floyd The Wall and the Berlin Wall.

Ok, thanks then. I'll make sure to heed that advice, and abandon thoughts of any relationship between the two. 

Also, I was not trying to come off angry with the capitals. I was just trying to emphasize my previous opinion on the influence between The Wall and the Berlin Wall.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlkpad14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2017 at 14:03
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by mlkpad14 mlkpad14 wrote:


I've stated openly that I was not around during that time. And, for the last time, I'll tell you that I'm just going off of WHAT I HEARD from many who WERE AROUND during that time.


yeah man, you said it, but there are books about the issue.

It's better to read it here than to suffer a harsh response by a jerk if you say this in real life.

I asure you, there's absolutely no relation between Pink Floyd The Wall and the Berlin Wall.


Roger Waters, did, though, make a relationship between the two by staging a concert in Berlin of The Wall, featuring s host of guest artists not long after the coming down of said wall.

The Wall was not merely an album about his mother, father, divorce, paranoia, breakdown of relationships, and ego, although it was all of those things, but also about the impact of said issues on Pink, and it's relationship to real life walls being built between people and cultures. In that regard, the Berlin Wall was very much in his thoughts when he wrote the album.

It is absolutely no accident whatsoever that Pink built a wall around his alter ego, and said alter ego was a fascist dictator. Again, the correlation between this and the real wall was absolutely no accident whatsoever. Of course, Waters regularly utilised real life politics and political situations in his lyrics and musical theatre.

Young Mlkpad14 has a point here, and his point should not be dismissed so lightly.

EDIT. The Wall album did not, though, inspire the Germans to tear down said wall. That is a silly fallacy. That there is a connection between both walls is not in doubt in my opinion.

And that's probably where what I've heard comes in. I will get a book on the matter, or maybe fetch myself some articles on it.

Thank you as to the facts you've provided on the situation. 
Let there now be peace. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2017 at 17:34
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

The Wall album did not, though, inspire the Germans to tear down said wall. That is a silly fallacy. That there is a connection between both walls is not in doubt in my opinion.


Well, according to Roger, the idea for the wall, came from his feeling that there was a wall between himself and the audience, he was doing something transcendental, and the audience was for the show, so he felt like there was a wall between him and the audience.

Well, the idea for "The Wall' came from ten years of touring, rock shows, I think, particularly the last few years in '75 and in '77 we were playing to very large audiences, some of whom were our old audience who'd come to see us play, but most of whom were only there for the beer, in big stadiums, and, er, consequently it became rather an alienating experience doing the shows. I became very conscious of a wall between us and our audience and so this record started out as being an expression of those feelings.
http://www.rogerwaters.org/79wallint.html

That's why they built a wall to hide the band 

And I'm sure it's not the band's feeling, because David loved the crowds, the beer, everything. LOL

With the pass of years, I learned that everything in Roger's mind is Roger  his ego, and his problems (Imaginary or real).

PS: I heard a similar myth, I was in Ecuador in 1991 or 1992, and they showed the Concert in Berlin on TV, and the announcer said that Roger made the concert 24 hours before the fall of the wall, and that his concert caused a massive reaction, I called the station, and told him that as a fact the concert was some days later, but he said....I know, but my story is more interesting. 


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 15 2017 at 17:40
            
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Dellinger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2017 at 21:14
I just read today on wikipedia that the song "Heroes" from David Bowie did actually have some impact for bringing down the wall in Berlin... so perhaps it's not totally ridiculous to think The Wall album could have such an influence too (I'm not saying that it did, or that I think it might have, though, only that it might not be as ridiculous).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2017 at 21:21
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Heroes%22_(David_Bowie_song)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tillerman88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2017 at 01:42
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

That's why they built a wall to hide the band .
And I'm sure it's not the band's feeling, because David loved the crowds, the beer, everything. LOL
 
Precisely because of Water's The Wall and the bitter partnership Gilmour had with his former bandmate many people misinterpreted Gilmour's and the band's real feelings behind The Divisiin Bell lyrics, which have often been read as a reflection on his alienating relationship with Waters. 

A quote from Wiki:

" Gilmour commented on this reading: "I'm quite happy for people to interpret The Division Bell any way they like. But maybe a note of caution should be sounded because you can read too much into it. 'A Great Day for Freedom', for example, has got nothing to do with Roger or his 'wall'. It just doesn't. What else can I say?"  "
The song, originally titled "In Shades of Grey", addresses the great hopes following the fall of the Berlin Wall and the disappointment that followed. David Gilmiur stated:
"There was a wonderful moment of optimism when the Wall came down the release of Eastern Europe from the non-democratic side of the socialist system. But what they have now doesn't seem to be much better. Again, I'm fairly pessimistic about it all. I sort of wish and live in hope, but I tend to think that history moves at a much slower pace than we think it does. I feel that real change takes a long, long time."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2017 at 05:49
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Heroes%22_(David_Bowie_song)


Here's a quote from the Vox page that the Wikipedia page cites for evidencing their positive statement about the role of Bowie's performance:
Quote
Yet this version of history may be more appealing than it is true. The Berlin Wall was chiefly brought down by historical forces that flowed in from the east, not from the west. It was Gorbachev's reforms of the Soviet system, the decisions of a few Soviet-bloc states to edge away from Moscow's control, disarray among the East German leadership, and the actions of East Germans on the ground that ultimately shaped history. Bowie's performance, like Reagan's speech a year later, did not determine Berlin's fate.

http://www.vox.com/2016/1/11/10749546/david-bowie-berlin-wall-heroes

Admittedly it says some more positive things, too. Certainly Bowie did the right thing at the right time there, but anyway, rock fans are for obvious reasons prone to overstating the influence of their heroes and treasures... (I'm not aware that any such claim was made in a similarly qualified manner about Roger's Wall.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2017 at 21:59
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Heroes%22_(David_Bowie_song)


Here's a quote from the Vox page that the Wikipedia page cites for evidencing their positive statement about the role of Bowie's performance:
Quote
Yet this version of history may be more appealing than it is true. The
Berlin Wall was chiefly brought down by historical forces that flowed in
from the east, not from the west. It was Gorbachev's reforms of the
Soviet system, the decisions of a few Soviet-bloc states to edge away
from Moscow's control, disarray among the East German leadership, and
the actions of East Germans on the ground that ultimately shaped
history. Bowie's performance, like Reagan's speech a year later, did not
determine Berlin's fate.

http://www.vox.com/2016/1/11/10749546/david-bowie-berlin-wall-heroes

Admittedly it says some more positive things, too. Certainly Bowie did the right thing at the right time there, but anyway, rock fans are for obvious reasons prone to overstating the influence of their heroes and treasures... (I'm not aware that any such claim was made in a similarly qualified manner about Roger's Wall.)


Yeah, well, it would be naive to believe it was a major factor, but it might have given some encouragement, like a cheerleader on sports. However, in the same page there was even something about the president of Germany giving some recognition to Bowie last year when he passed away.
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Lewian View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2017 at 05:21
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:



Yeah, well, it would be naive to believe it was a major factor, but it might have given some encouragement, like a cheerleader on sports. However, in the same page there was even something about the president of Germany giving some recognition to Bowie last year when he passed away.

Background information for this is that many Germans, particularly politicians, aren't overly happy to acknowledge that Gorbachev and even some SED leaders at the time did more to make it happen than the "ordinary" people in the street  let alone people from the West.
The case is good enough to be considered and discussed so thanks for bringing it up, I wouldn't reject some effect altogether, although ultimately I remain unconvinced.
The given quote is not by the German president by the way, rather by someone working for the Foreign Office (officially twittering for the FO), I'd guess a rock or at least Bowie fan.
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