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DamoXt7942 View Drop Down
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Points: 17459 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Haven't Nazi Party done any good work really?
    Posted: February 05 2017 at 23:12
Sorry if you all get to be in a bad mood but I've read a Japanese book titled "Holocaust" recently.

Holocaust ... written by Kensuke SHIBA (published in Chuko Shinsho Co., LTD

Got quite shocked to notice millions of Jews were killed in various "Extermination Camps" for a short while ... although I already knew tragic events only in Auschwitz Extermination Camp.

Enough is enough, but please let me know whether they have done any work for the world really, if you don't mind.

I will vaporize this thread soon if you feel unpleasant. Thanks.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2017 at 00:57
Do you mean just nazi Germany (1933-45), all fascist regimes (Italy and Spain), the Axis powers of WWII (Germany, Italy, Japan, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria) or just (far-right) fascism in general?

The holocaust was not just jewish people, their victims also included ethnic Polish and other Slavs, Soviet citizens and Soviet POWs, Romanis, communists, homosexuals, Freemasons, Jehovah's Witnesses, the mentally and physically disabled, and political opponents; to this we should also add the millions of Chinese, Koreans, Malaysians, Indonesians, Filipinos and Indochinese. Suffice to say if the Axis powers had won the war then the genocide would have increased exponentially to include many other ethnic and political groups throughout the world. It is not inconceivable that the total world death-toll would have been several billion in a very short space of time.

They gave the world the VW Beetle, the autobahn and anti-vivisectionism, (though rather than experiment on animals they used concentration camp victims instead), and if you were white, christian and German you would have had a pretty good standard of life as they improved the German welfare system considerably. But they aren't really a product or consequence of fascism.



Edited by Dean - February 06 2017 at 00:59
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Points: 17459 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2017 at 01:16
Honest to say, I consider that almost all of Japanese might not have enough knowledge of Nazi Germany or Holocaust so some of them (especially young idols in media) veiled in a swastika military costume get to be a focus of criticism.
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

The holocaust was not just jewish people, their victims also included ethnic Polish and other Slavs, Soviet citizens and Soviet POWs, Romanis, communists, homosexuals, Freemasons, Jehovah's Witnesses, the mentally and physically disabled, and political opponents; to this we should also add the millions of Chinese, Koreans, Malaysians, Indonesians, Filipinos and Indochinese. Suffice to say if the Axis powers had won the war then the genocide would have increased exponentially to include many other ethnic and political groups throughout the world. It is not inconceivable that the total world death-toll would have been several billion in a very short space of time.
Surprised to find their fascism itself via the book.
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

They gave the world the VW Beetle, the autobahn and anti-vivisectionism, (though rather than experiment on animals they used concentration camp victims instead), and if you were white, christian and German you would have had a pretty good standard of life as they improved the German welfare system considerably. But they aren't really a product or consequence of fascism.
Thank you for notification. We Japanese (in one of WWII Axis nations) must learn more and more. Geek
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Points: 6673 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2017 at 01:30
The Nazi party NSDAP was a completely corrupt and inefficient political gang of utter thugs, thieves, perverts and to use their lingo, <Untermensch< or sub-humans. They seized power via blackmail and promising big business a free workforce in order to maximize profits to celestial levels. Organization Todt took idle workers off the streets and into barracks, feeding the war economy that built the autobahn. I suggest you read the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William Shirer (who was present at the time the Nazis ruled and thankfully were defeated. 
Unfortunately for Japan, the Tojo military junta was equally morally corrupt and encouraged genocide towards countless Chinese, Koreans, Filipinos, Burmese, Indochinese etc....


Edited by tszirmay - February 06 2017 at 01:30
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2017 at 01:34
It is a grim reality that when one group of people dehumanises another group of people then all humanity is lost. 
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Points: 23098 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2017 at 02:06
It is rather disconcerting to witness how some cultures seem to be completely oblivious about certain chapters of history.
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Points: 8080 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2017 at 02:14
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

The Nazi party NSDAP was a completely corrupt and inefficient political gang of utter thugs, thieves, perverts and to use their lingo, <Untermensch< or sub-humans. They seized power via blackmail and promising big business a free workforce in order to maximize profits to celestial levels. Organization Todt took idle workers off the streets and into barracks, feeding the war economy that built the autobahn. I suggest you read the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William Shirer (who was present at the time the Nazis ruled and thankfully were defeated. 
Unfortunately for Japan, the Tojo military junta was equally morally corrupt and encouraged genocide towards countless Chinese, Koreans, Filipinos, Burmese, Indochinese etc....
Another important, but quite chilling account by Shirer is "Berlin Diary". written in the 1930s when he was a foreign correspondent in Germany. I have read The Rise and Fall several times.
                 
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Points: 10377 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2017 at 02:29
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Do you mean just nazi Germany (1933-45), all fascist regimes (Italy and Spain), the Axis powers of WWII (Germany, Italy, Japan, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria) or just (far-right) fascism in general?

The holocaust was not just jewish people, their victims also included ethnic Polish and other Slavs, Soviet citizens and Soviet POWs, Romanis, communists, homosexuals, Freemasons, Jehovah's Witnesses, the mentally and physically disabled, and political opponents; to this we should also add the millions of Chinese, Koreans, Malaysians, Indonesians, Filipinos and Indochinese. Suffice to say if the Axis powers had won the war then the genocide would have increased exponentially to include many other ethnic and political groups throughout the world. It is not inconceivable that the total world death-toll would have been several billion in a very short space of time.

They gave the world the VW Beetle, the autobahn and anti-vivisectionism, (though rather than experiment on animals they used concentration camp victims instead), and if you were white, christian and German you would have had a pretty good standard of life as they improved the German welfare system considerably. But they aren't really a product or consequence of fascism.


being a Christian was not enough to be safe because they also persecuted the Catholic Church: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_persecution_of_the_Catholic_Church_in_Germany)



Edited by BaldJean - February 06 2017 at 02:36


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Points: 17459 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2017 at 03:31
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

I suggest you read the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William Shirer (who was present at the time the Nazis ruled and thankfully were defeated.
Will check it out, thanks Thomas. 
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

Unfortunately for Japan, the Tojo military junta was equally morally corrupt and encouraged genocide towards countless Chinese, Koreans, Filipinos, Burmese, Indochinese etc....
As for this, I cannot mention any comment here ... Ouch
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Points: 17459 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2017 at 03:33
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

It is rather disconcerting to witness how some cultures seem to be completely oblivious about certain chapters of history.
We should directly look to the certain chapters of history ...Cry
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Points: 17459 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2017 at 03:35
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Another important, but quite chilling account by Shirer is "Berlin Diary". written in the 1930s when he was a foreign correspondent in Germany. I have read The Rise and Fall several times.
Lots of historical tragedies we should learn ... Cry
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Points: 17459 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2017 at 03:36
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

being a Christian was not enough to be safe because they also persecuted the Catholic Church
Shocked

Cry
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2017 at 05:42
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

... if you were white, christian and German you would have had a pretty good standard of life as they improved the German welfare system considerably. 

being a Christian was not enough to be safe because they also persecuted the Catholic Church: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_persecution_of_the_Catholic_Church_in_Germany)

Well, yes and no. Between 1934 and 1945 they pretty much limited their attacks to the church and its clergy, not the people who worshipped in those churches. During that period for a German citizen (or any citizen of an occupied country), being a christian was considerably safer than being jewish. Of course had the war continued then the persecution of the (catholic) church would have spread to other churches and then all christians much as the Soviet Union had done between 1917 and 1990 (and probably with the same effect).

/sorry for all the edits - it seems I need to wear my spectacles today. Unhappy


Edited by Dean - February 06 2017 at 05:45
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Points: 23098 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2017 at 05:48
Originally posted by DamoXt7942 DamoXt7942 wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

It is rather disconcerting to witness how some cultures seem to be completely oblivious about certain chapters of history.
We should directly look to the certain chapters of history ...Cry

Indeed, even if it is a painful experience. History should preferably teach us not to replicate our mistakes, although looking at history up until now it seems as if the teachings have been rather sparsely communicated (some have even been twisted in order to make X nation feel better about themselves and their place on this blue dot in space).
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Points: 23098 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2017 at 05:52
I edit 75% of all my posts
I read my (or more oftenly: my phone's) mistakes AFTER I've posted them. Never fails.
Yes apparently I am that stupid (consecutively).
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2017 at 05:54
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Originally posted by DamoXt7942 DamoXt7942 wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

It is rather disconcerting to witness how some cultures seem to be completely oblivious about certain chapters of history.
We should directly look to the certain chapters of history ...Cry

Indeed, even if it is a painful experience. History should preferably teach us not to replicate our mistakes, although looking at history up until now it seems as if the teachings have been rather sparsely communicated (some have even been twisted in order to make X nation feel better about themselves and their place on this blue dot in space).
Unfortunately bad people try to learn from history too, and believe they can improve on it. The problem there is no group ever sees themselves as the bad guys - every zealot believes they are following a just and honourable cause and every terrorist sees themselves as a good person fighting on the side of right.
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Points: 23098 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2017 at 06:13
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Originally posted by DamoXt7942 DamoXt7942 wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

It is rather disconcerting to witness how some cultures seem to be completely oblivious about certain chapters of history.
We should directly look to the certain chapters of history ...Cry

Indeed, even if it is a painful experience. History should preferably teach us not to replicate our mistakes, although looking at history up until now it seems as if the teachings have been rather sparsely communicated (some have even been twisted in order to make X nation feel better about themselves and their place on this blue dot in space).

Unfortunately bad people try to learn from history too, and believe they can improve on it. The problem there is no group ever sees themselves as the bad guys - every zealot believes they are following a just and honourable cause and every terrorist sees themselves as a good person fighting on the side of right.

Yep...that seems to be the whole problem boiled down to a few words. I recently had this discussion with my father, although we approached it from another angle altogether; Amnesty. A well-meaning organisation that imo (and my dad's) far too often mimic the old crusaders with one unequivocal truth. "Look at those poor children working in sweatshops!!!"
Yeah let's stop all that nonsense and throw them out on the street where they can earn a living through prostitution or conversely just starve to death.
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Points: 10377 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2017 at 06:16
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

... if you were white, christian and German you would have had a pretty good standard of life as they improved the German welfare system considerably. 

being a Christian was not enough to be safe because they also persecuted the Catholic Church: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_persecution_of_the_Catholic_Church_in_Germany)

Well, yes and no. Between 1934 and 1945 they pretty much limited their attacks to the church and its clergy, not the people who worshipped in those churches. During that period for a German citizen (or any citizen of an occupied country), being a christian was considerably safer than being jewish. Of course had the war continued then the persecution of the (catholic) church would have spread to other churches and then all christians much as the Soviet Union had done between 1917 and 1990 (and probably with the same effect).

/sorry for all the edits - it seems I need to wear my spectacles today. Unhappy

I know, Dean. that's why I wrote "the Catholic Church" and not "people of Catholic faith"


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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2017 at 06:54
Yes, millions of Jews were killed not just at Auschwitz but camps all over Europe. In addition, millions more non Jews were killed: Slavs, Poles, homosexuals, communists, the disabled, prisoners of war, enemies of the state, roma, even freemasons and Jehovah's Witnesses. I must admit I have no idea what history is taught in Japan. If it's a topic where the extent of which is unfamiliar I do recommend looking into it all some time. It really is a dark time for humanity, and kind of the ultimate "lesson" of how anger, prejudice, apathy, "going with the flow" and not taking people seriously enough can lead to the worst possible outcome. 
One unimaginable, probably even back then BUT it goes to show what desperation, anger and ignorance can do to a mass populace, and bring the worst people to the top. 

As for your question, Nazism was basically Fascism in Germany, since you ask a broad question I will take it you mean Fascism. Like any system it was 100% entirely bad. Fascism certainly made segments of the population better off. Most though were not. Economically Fascism was sold as a "middle ground" between Western Capitalism which caused issues and social strife, and Marxist socialism. It was sold as a system for the workers and small business. From what I know large business was basically allowed to run the land while workers all may have had jobs, but they were pretty suppressed and I dont think life for many was improved. The Nazis relied heavily on forced labor as well so I can't say they did much good. 

It was all based off dangerous and short run ideas, since ya know 15-20 years after Fascism became an idea all of its practitioners were in rubble. 
Nazism was the most extreme version, as they sought the mass extermination of Jews where Italy was far less harsh, though did cave and send Jews off to die, and far as I know Japan did not really do this, and obviously Nazism (and Fascism in general) plunged the world into war with its aggressive nature. 

So no, overall can't say it did any good!
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2017 at 09:26
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

and far as I know Japan did not really do this, 
...but alas they did, not in extermination camps but certainly through mass-killings of civilians in occupied countries. Estimates range from 3 to 10 million deaths and countless other war crimes such as human experimentation and forced labour.
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