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npjnpj View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote npjnpj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2017 at 00:37
The purpose behind the increase in military expenditure is, in my view, both much less complicated and, at the same time, much more sinister.

Imagine that at some point in the near future conscription were brought into the equation, this could be expected to result in the streets being swept clean of 'undesirable elements' while also resulting in a drastic reduction in unemployment. Two election promises fulfilled in one fell swoop. Public support would be overwhelming.

That this would also be a direct preparation for war with anyone, anywhere in the world would be either ignored or regarded as being secondary. The presently escalating situation with North Korea would, given the right spin, be the trigger that could enforce a perceived necessity for such legislation. But there will also be others.

Although this sounds cynical, remember that we're dealing with the conservatives here: This would be a great opportunity to put a gratifyingly large number of those 'undesirables' into little black boxes. Instant national heroes who will cost the state absolutely nothing any more.

Again: this has Steve Bannon written all over it.



Edited by npjnpj - March 19 2017 at 00:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2017 at 08:06
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:


The only items getting increases are military- and national security-related. The U.S. already spends more than any other country in the world on military, more than twice what China spends (who ranks second). My prediction is they'll pick another country to invade, run up another damned huge deficit, and then another Democratic president will be forced to deal with another GOD-DAMNED REPUBLICAN MESS!!!!
What a bunch of f**kheads!!!
 
 
 


I agree and this is what leaves me scratching my head over conservative ideology in general. When conservatives are asked to explain why they hold their views about limited government, a recurrent explanation is that they are afraid of government imposition because they're the ones with the guns. And true you see this played out with their position on gun control, government aid, federal regulations, federal reclamation of land and protection of environment, and so on. However, conservatives tend also to be hawkish, strengthening the military component of the federal government that they say they so fear (Trump of course fits right into this). I tend to view this supposed fear of federal government as very disingenuous. Is it deception, self-deception, or is there something I'm missing? This is an open question to anyone who thinks they can answer.




I'll take a stab at it, my experiences give me some insight I suppose. LOL Sort of enlisting some paranoid right wing tin-foil hat wearing wack job onto the forum to answer it. I suppose I'll try to answer that.

I think you are attempting to tie two completely things together man.  The fear the right has of big government is very real.  Do I agree with it?  Of course not, what is there to fear...if Po-Po or the Feds comes beating down my door to deport Raff or to toss me into a neo-facist re-education camp for hating on the Emperor of the US himself online... then they get blown away even if I am a liberal.

The point is.. they are not afraid of the military. Even in their ignorant self contained world they understand that the military has not place within in the US itself. It is illegal and the President who even mutters the thought of using the military within the US will be the one thing outside of terrorists to unite our fractured and divided country.

Those agents of goverment they fear...that might take their rights, their guns, their land, are not military man. They are the police and the Feds. VERY VERY VERY different.  Those are the people the right has a problem with, be it potentially taking their guns or their land (the big to-do out west). It isn't the military

Thus I have seen little fear of the military on the right.  As all might suspect, the military itself is very right leaning.  I felt very out of place being a self professing liberal in the military.  Just as we on the left tend to think every rightie is a gun totting Bible freak, most think those on the left are paper pushing pussies who think that god and relgion are mass delusions.  I'd like to think I showed those I met that is not the case, as much as they taught me that common views of the right by the left are not true (at least ALL of them LOL)
I had to take some time to mull this over. You might be right. I had made the contrary interpretation that they were concerned about military power when I heard one whose name I can't remember unfortunately interviewed on the radio saying that they're afraid of government power because "they're the ones with the guns". I understood them referring to a power imbalance, and given all the guns throughout the country, I didn't think the reference was to the FBI but to the military. And the major rationale conservatives have for their enthusiasm over the second amendment is that people should have the ability in principle to rise up against the government if it were to turn tyrannical. If a rebellion were just a local armed stand off, then yeah the FBI or ATF would be expected. If a full out war of rebellion were ever to occur, I presume conservatives would quite rightly expect such a theoretical rebellion to be engaged by actual armed forces of the military, as of course happened with the Civil War. I guess that all depends on what individuals envision, and that may evolve over time, I suppose. The small armed standoffs are what are current and more plausible, but the full scale war scenario better serves the motivation for having the second amendment. Maybe, however, it stays in the realm of the theoretical, and what is more psychologically real for conservatives are the small scale standoffs, and then you're certainly right; it's the Feds that become the concern. I don't know, but I think I'm over-thinking this more than I ought to.





I don't think you are over-thinking it.  Hell I applaud the effort to try to figure out what makes them tick.  It is a scary road of hate, ignorance, and paranoia.  I took it myself since it is so completely contrary to how I was raised and the person I grew to be, and yet worked with and even was friends with those completely different in their thinking than I was and feel pretty safe to safe I"m the only member of this forum to have ever attended a KKK meeting so yeah... your pool of respondants here is fairly limited as it is not exactly a ideologically diverse forum LOL

You do raise some interesting 2nd amendment points..  I may touch on those later.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2017 at 16:38

Comey Confirms F.B.I. Inquiry on Russia; Sees No Evidence of Wiretapping...
In summation: Trump is a liar, and may well be a traitor.



Edited by The Dark Elf - March 20 2017 at 16:39
And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kepler62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2017 at 17:05
So now we can all sleep.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timothy leary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2017 at 17:19
with one eye open
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A Person Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2017 at 17:37
GRIPPING YOUR PILLOW TIGHT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2017 at 17:48
One wonders if Trump was fed the story to provoke him into the idiotic frenzy that it did.   On the other hand, he really needs no help at all.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2017 at 20:04
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

One wonders if Trump was fed the story to provoke him into the idiotic frenzy that it did.   On the other hand, he really needs no help at all.
Really, if you think about it, this whole wire tap thing was a self-inflicted wound. If he never mentioned it, it wouldn't have reflected so badly on his integrity or his sanity. Now, not only do we think that perhaps, maybe, he is a deluded liar, we know for certain he is a deluded liar.


Edited by The Dark Elf - March 20 2017 at 20:04
And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2017 at 06:31
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

One wonders if Trump was fed the story to provoke him into the idiotic frenzy that it did.   On the other hand, he really needs no help at all.
 
He gets his intelligence briefings from Breitbart, Fox News, and Alex Jones.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kepler62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2017 at 06:42
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkhCqFG6Qv0&t=506s  

Couldn't get the Youtube link to work. 


Edited by Kepler62 - March 21 2017 at 06:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote npjnpj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2017 at 12:21
Ok, so once again, I'm puzzled. Is there anyone here who knows his or her way about US law (a bit)?

If Trump threatens house members that they will lose their seats if they don't vote in vavour of his healthcare bill, doesn't that constitute coecion and could be interpreted as (another) felony?

It's practically forcing house members to possibly vote against their own convictions so as not to suffer personal repercussions. How is this not coecion?

I mean, it seems as if I'm way off beam here, because the outcry both inside and outside the GOP should be pronounced, to say the least if I were correct. So where am I going wrong in my thinking?


Edited by npjnpj - March 22 2017 at 12:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2017 at 16:08
^ He's saying he thinks voters will vote for someone else at the midterm elections if members reject the healthcare bill.  The president can't fire them.  That said, Lyndon Johnson was known for threats and coercion but he was a lifelong career politician and had tons of influence and political capital by 1964.  Trump is a green amateur compared to LBJ.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js (Easy Money) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2017 at 17:39
^ Trump (or anyone else) can get involved in a congressional election and more or less tell voters that he does not approve of said person and further more, he does not want people to support said person. I don't know how much power Trump is going to have in a year and a half when the elections take place, by then people (even Republicans) may not care who he does or does not approve of. It could even get to the point where Trump's approval could be a politician's kiss of death.

I know a lot of conservative voters and Republicans, and very very few (almost none) have a positive opinion of Trump. Some voted for him so as to defeat Clinton, but I think he is turning out to be much worse than what anyone imagined.
I don't know where this 37% approval rating is coming from. In the very conservative district where I live, I would guess it to be more like 10 or 15%.
I don't think his policies annoy the conservatives around here, but his childish behavior definitely does.

Edited by js (Easy Money) - March 22 2017 at 17:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2017 at 18:05
^ I've been observing that too; people don't just roll over because some guy is President.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote npjnpj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2017 at 23:31
Thanks guys, that explains it, of course. The way it was worded in some news outlets led me to believe that Trump could directly relieve house members from their posts, or at least relieve them of some of their functions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2017 at 09:40
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

Thanks guys, that explains it, of course. The way it was worded in some news outlets led me to believe that Trump could directly relieve house members from their posts, or at least relieve them of some of their functions.
Mr. Trump will find that he just can't say just anything as President of the US without suffering some big ramifications. Something that he was immune to when he was actually running for President. In other words, he will now be held accountable for his lies.

Edited by SteveG - March 23 2017 at 09:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HackettFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2017 at 19:33
Vote on Trump health"care" delayed. This is what results when you fail to get a mandate. Oh, and by the way, though it's not the final word; ha ha!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2017 at 23:00
Lots of news recently, none surprising.

The Trump "budget" (loosely used since it's lacking on a little known as revenueLOL) boosts military, natl security spending, puts some money aside for that f**kin wall that he probably is gunna actually attempt, all paid for by massive cuts to most else...the EPA and science in general taking a massive hit. 

No shock to any of that. 

Healthcare repeal is floundering. Despite 7 years of yelling repeal, seems the GOP never discussed a plan. It's pretty amazing to see them try to navigate this debacle. As of now the bill doesn't have the votes in either chamber but I'm sure they are working on sweeteners, kickbacks, threats and maybe concessions to try and get everyone on board. We shall see. 
Again no shock to this. It's just funny to me to see the Freedom Caucus is possibly gunna kill this bill and they are from the anti gov movement started basically by bashing ObamacareLOL

Gorsuch is going through hearings. Been pretty normal....the opposition trying to find ways to get him to answer something while he vaguely rolls around trying to not answer. Its mostly show, supposedly Al Franken really shown...some wonder if he's setting up for 2020. 
The SC situation still enrages me. The GOP can hold the Court hostage, literally steal a seat, and they will get away with it. Either the Dems obstruct and get nuclear optioned, or accept it and are screwed out of the seat. Either way Gorsuch is in and they got royally f**ked. 

Personally, I'd say it's wise to put up a tokenistic effort but not filibuster Gorsuch. Why give McConnell what he wants? On the flip side...I am not sure I totally buy into the "dont fight this one, keep the filibuster, fight the next justice" because Mitch will use the nuclear option anyway.... I sometimes fight the urge to say "f**k it" just filibuster, the future of the court is probably gunna be up/down votes anyway since loooong before Garland, the process was getting crazier and crazier. Or ya know the GOP can find their backbone and come up with a gang to solve this bipartisanly like they did under Bush

.....LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote npjnpj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2017 at 01:34
I wonder if Trump thnks that a filibuster is anything that exceeds 140 characters.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote npjnpj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2017 at 03:39

This healthcare thing: I don't live in the US, so perhaps someone could explain to me how such a plan could even be considered.

Over the next few years there would be be tens of thousands of US citizens that will suffer a slow and painful death at the hands of this plan through loss of health insurance.

That's more than any terrorist acts could hope to achieve, short of setting off a nuclear bomb in the middle of New York, which could be considered to be more humane, considering the circumstances. And there are even republicans for whom this plan doesn't go far enough.

As an outsider: this is barbarism on a scope beyond measure.
What's wrong with these republicans?



Edited by npjnpj - March 24 2017 at 03:42
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