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progaardvark View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2017 at 06:08
Trump's response to Puerto Rico has been shameful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2017 at 06:09
He's responded? I must have missed it! ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mathman0806 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2017 at 06:45
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


He's responded? I must have missed it! ;)


He called the people of Puerto Rico out for kneeling during ... oh wait, nevermind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2017 at 03:07
I doubt Trump even knew it was a US territory, or that he feels a need to do anything at all

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2017 at 04:02
Now that Trump is aware of Puerto Rico, he says he intends to build another wall to keep the Puerto Ricans out of the US.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2017 at 07:55
Puerto Ricans are brown. They don't matter to Trump. Unless they could be use to rally and energize his all-white base. Then they would matter. 

And the funny thing is that Trump doesn't really give a damn about his whites either. But they are very useful. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote npjnpj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2017 at 07:31
A twitter war with the mayor of San Juan now? Seriously? What a turd!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2017 at 04:34
Yes, but Trump's fan base eats this sh*t up. Sad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2017 at 12:59
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Trump's response to Puerto Rico has been shameful.
Yes indeed, one of the more (and that's impressive given his resume) shameful things he has said. 

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

I doubt Trump even knew it was a US territory


Wouldn't even surprise me. 
Hell, ya heard 46% of Americans don't know Puerto Ricans are American citizens? 
Hmmmmmmm didn't Trump win with around 46% of the vote? That's interesting!!!



Oh yes, Trump has indeed responded SteveG. In true fashion, after being called out for more or less blaming the country for their suffering, he did the only thing he knows how to do: double down and run full speed ahead, saying the residents of PR aren't doing enough to help themselves! They want everything done for them! 
Oh and the Democrats told the Mayor of San Juan, who was so nice a few days ago, to get nasty with Trump. Of course! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2017 at 15:20
Trump continues on...handing out lights and stuff to people in PR while on twitter he continues to blame them for their debt problem. (Funny from the guy who's lived off bankruptcy and wants to pass a $2.4 trillion deficit creating tax plan) 

Oh hey that reminds me! The GOP is indeed presenting their tax plan. They have gone to such lengths to assure us it will be pro middle class, will not benefit the wealthy. 
I gotta run so will post the article later, but all the analysis I've seen shows the largest share of tax cuts go, by far, to the wealthiest 1%   Also, by 2027 the tax cuts will have shrunk for every group except the 1% and  30% of people earning 50-150K would be paying MORE

That's right, it not just benefits the wealthy, but in the end the middle class would see no change and many would be paying more! Eliminates the estate tax, and yes is projected to cost us $2.4 trillion. They are going for it. 
Wow what about the 8 years of yelling about fiscal responsibility and fighting over every penny? Funny how they seem to forget about all that when a Republican is in the WH. It's like they dont actually care about deficits at all and just use it as a weapon oh wait: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2017 at 18:51
^^^  This is pretty much what the BJP is doing now, appropriating every Cong policy that they used to berate when in the opposition.  And it's part of why I have come to dislike all Tory parties in general now.  They are deceitful cowards bereft of imagination as well as the humility to accept where they have gone wrong.  When the Minister of Railways blames legacy issues for not building a small pedestrian bridge at a railway station in 3 1/2 years, it just takes the cake.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HackettFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2017 at 21:45
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Wow what about the 8 years of yelling about fiscal responsibility and fighting over every penny? Funny how they seem to forget about all that when a Republican is in the WH. It's like they dont actually care about deficits at all and just use it as a weapon oh wait: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast
The Republicans have always gone in alternating tendencies between the pay as you go fiscal conservatism position and supply side growth-will-make-deficits-irrelevant position. The latter was mainly in play during the Reagan and Bush years. Fiscal conservatism was in play during the Clinton years. A drift back to supply side occurred initially with the influence of Jack Kemp as Bob Dole's running mate. Supply side continued through Bush's presidency. Tea Party people during fiscally conservative again during the Obama years in reaction to Bush year spending excesses and Obama's stimulus spending. Now it seems we've trended back to supply side stuff. I find it an annoying moving of the goal posts. Which Republican Party are we competing against. The Dems always seem not too nimble in adjusting, imo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2017 at 13:16
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Wow what about the 8 years of yelling about fiscal responsibility and fighting over every penny? Funny how they seem to forget about all that when a Republican is in the WH. It's like they dont actually care about deficits at all and just use it as a weapon oh wait: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast
The Republicans have always gone in alternating tendencies between the pay as you go fiscal conservatism position and supply side growth-will-make-deficits-irrelevant position. The latter was mainly in play during the Reagan and Bush years. Fiscal conservatism was in play during the Clinton years. A drift back to supply side occurred initially with the influence of Jack Kemp as Bob Dole's running mate. Supply side continued through Bush's presidency. Tea Party people during fiscally conservative again during the Obama years in reaction to Bush year spending excesses and Obama's stimulus spending. Now it seems we've trended back to supply side stuff. I find it an annoying moving of the goal posts. Which Republican Party are we competing against. The Dems always seem not too nimble in adjusting, imo.

The link I posted says it all: Starve the Beast. 
It's a purposeful policy, it's not even laziness or dishonesty (though it is both those) and it's not just different camps surfacing at different times, it's a strategy. It's been their strategy since Reagan when they realized people want tax cuts and dont really seem to care about deficits.
Oh its extremely annoying, and I hate it, but its actually a brilliant strategy: be the champion of tax cuts AND fiscal restraint, but have an easy time governing while making it harder of Democrats who get saddled with the pain/backlash of tax hikes and restraint. This all happened when supply side was becoming a thing so they even had a justification "They will pay for themselves!" So the drift is actually a perfectly controlled one. 
How the Dems have let this happen for decades is beyond me. If some college kid with wikipedia realized it, surely they must know. No idea why they dont challenge it. If I was a Democratic consultant I would tell them to make this a platform point. Every time a Republican talks about deficit, our "this is unaffordable", debt is out of control blah blah counter with this. Make it known and fight it. But yeah the Democratic Party is impotent beyond words. Even now, they may talk about deficits and etc but why wont they say "No, you cant do this again, everyone this is what their plan is" Or as you put it, that is the Republican Party we're battling. 

And Americans let it happen by letting it go. They could easily realize these abrupt flip flops, that tax cuts have never paid for themselves, but we dont. People dont see it, dont look into it, it's infuriating. 

That's why I appreciated Sanders' calling for big spending and only half assedly coming up with some story about how it'll be paid for. He's the first to fight fire with fire. Don't get me wrong, I think gov spending on jobs, education, infrastructure and etc will boost the economy and actually pay themselves off to some degree (unlike tax cuts) but it was great to see someone not being caught in the GOP trap. 


Edited by JJLehto - October 06 2017 at 13:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2017 at 13:46
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

^^^  This is pretty much what the BJP is doing now, appropriating every Cong policy that they used to berate when in the opposition.  And it's part of why I have come to dislike all Tory parties in general now.  They are deceitful cowards bereft of imagination as well as the humility to accept where they have gone wrong.  When the Minister of Railways blames legacy issues for not building a small pedestrian bridge at a railway station in 3 1/2 years, it just takes the cake.

Oh wow, harsh! Sadly I have no idea, so will have to defer to you on the matter. In my rambling above, I believe the Republican Party on this issue is behaving in line with a strategy and not just intellectual bankruptcy and lack of conviction (though hey I think they have those too). 
I mean I do agree, for example while I'm glad a few GOP Senators have bucked their party to stop Obamacare repeal...they all voted against it back in 2010. Glad they have upkept it but it does feel a bit empty, if you dont want it gone now, then why vote against it at first? If they sincerely were against it but not now then as you say they should admit to a mistake, but McCain just kept talking about how bad the process was, or "gotta do whats right", some may have concerns about health cuts but again, why didnt you support it then? 
Or Betsy DeVos, two GOP senators were praised for voting against her, but they voted to let her have a senate vote....if you're reeeeeeeeeeeaaalllly that opposed, that brave, you'd have said no then and kill her chances at the start. Funny how only two broke, so the VP could break the tie. Surely that all wasn't planned at all.... All this big government wasteful spending, but they pay lip service to how they're totally gunna build a 2000 thousand mile wall...no more gov spending! but then approves increased military spending (twice now I think). As you say deceitful cowardice. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2017 at 14:10
So this is an interesting article. Data from a survey found that gun ownership is perhaps the most partisan factor in the US. We'd expect gun owners to lean Republican and non owners to be Dems but I never expected THIS level of divide. 



The article shows that gun ownership cuts across education and even race (Trump won gun owning degree holders, and lost gun owning black voters less than non gun owning) and gun ownership was more indicative of voting for Trump or Clinton over race (barely), religion, union membership, being married, even the urban/rural divide. Only stronger factor may be being an atheist. 
Anyway, this shows the deep differences in general outlook between gun owners and not, and also why the issue is SO passionate and intense. 


Edited by JJLehto - October 06 2017 at 14:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2017 at 08:35
The map is striking, however I would be surprised if you couldn't recreate the same results with a slew of issues that correlate with either party. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2017 at 01:00
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

The map is striking, however I would be surprised if you couldn't recreate the same results with a slew of issues that correlate with either party. 

The article does that, they look at various other things (being in a union, race, religion, urban/rural among others) and nothing else creates that intense a divide. Well except being an atheist. Unless you mean issues they did not cover, I am sure it is possible, though off the top of my head abortion, while divisive, isn't that stark even. Perhaps belief in man made climate change.
Now I will be fair, I am not sure it's THAT divisive, it was based off a survey...I am sure in some states there are more non gun owning Repubs or gun owning Dems then was seen in that map, but I believe the overall picture is pretty accurate. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2017 at 20:32
I mean that's not exactly the set of attributes I was suggesting, but it's close enough for me to take the loss on my prediction. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2017 at 00:01
Eh I think it's a good overall picture, and no doubt other factors/issues would likely be as divisive, mostly I was shocked at how vast it really is, I really would expect some more non gun owning Reps but especially gun owning Dems. Anyway, seems this shooting is the one bad enough to actually possibly prompt some change, the GOP and NRA are supposedly on board with limiting (not sure if banning) these bump stocks. 


Getting off the Trump train for once and all that jazz, an interesting law passed in California that I think I'd need some major thinking about, and input from a few parties, if I was governor
http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essential-politics-updates-gov-brown-downgrades-from-felony-to-1507331544-htmlstory.html
They have decreased the penalty for knowingly exposing someone to HIV/AIDS from a felony to misdemeanor. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2017 at 07:07
Back to our gun post, be it good or bad, guns have always transcend party lines.

Edited by SteveG - October 09 2017 at 07:08
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