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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2018 at 09:22
Trump and pals:Too much regulation!
::rollin::
Reality:
In a recent debate, Nelson described the mess as a direct result of Scott “systematically disassembling the environmental agencies of this state … You put pollution in the water, it will grow the algae in the heat of summer.” His ads are just as blunt: “The water is murky, but the fact is clear: Rick Scott caused this problem.”
https://www.politico.com/magazine/amp/story/2018/10/14/florida-senate-race-rick-scott-bill-nelson-algae-221272
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2018 at 12:28
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Yeah, ompha, you should've quit while you were ahead.   That last post was incoherent and bizarre.   Your point about Field's trial made no sense, and if your gonna endorse white supremacists you'll lose a lot more than your dignity.


 

I don't endorse white supremists!  

Who is Jason  Kessler?  He organized Charlottesville White Supremist.  Bet you didn't know that... and I bet you don't this:
 1. Before Kessler led the Charlottesville White Supremists he Organized Democrat Occupy Wall Street demonstrations.
2.   Kessler also worked for Obama until the very day Trump won the presidency.  Jason Kessler immediately flipped from a democrat organizer to a White Supremist.   Look it up...
3.  The few folks besides Kessler identified as White Supremists at Charlottesville have been identified as democrats working for the military industrial complex.  Look it up.    

In 1920 there were over 3 million KKK.  Over 90% of the KKK were democrats.  Today?  There are a total of 6500 KKK and White Supremist in America. Sounds like Racism is dying out.   America population triples from  1920 till 2018.   Meanwhile the KKK population drops from over 3 million to 6500.  Do you personally know any white supremist who march or beat minorities?  I don't.  I don't know anybody who knows a white supremist.  Do you?  I'll  bet you don't.  Because they're rare as hen teeth.  

Lincoln was a republican.   The Jim Crow laws were created by Democrats.  Democrats miniplate black people and give them nothing while Trump has helped the black community get jobs and pride.  Trump created lowest Black unemployment ever.    Maybe you should read history of Democrat KKK and democrats discrimination against the black community. It was the racist democrats who voted for slavery.  Read your history!  

Currently, Top 35 cities with highest black murder rates and black poverty- All 35 cities have Democrat mayors.   Do the research dude.    I used to vote Democrat but then I started deep dives on the Democrats.  Are the Republicans honest.  NO WAY.   But at least the Republicans aren't censoring.  And Trump hasn't started a new war.  I understand that Trump haters love wars.  Trump haters want North Korea to threaten the world with nukes.  Trump haters hate low unemployment for Blacks and Hispanics, higher wages/bonuses, booming economy, and lower taxes.  What do I hate?

I hate White Supremist and their foul deeds and ideas.   My two best friends are lovely ladies who happen to be beautiful black nurses. We care for the invalids and impoverished.  We laugh, we cry together, we work together to hold the hands of people the end of their existence ...(no matter what their color....people at the end need love, care, and attention....someone to hold their hand)  I'd trust my life with my sisters because I watch them daily doll out love, sweet words, and smiles to the elderly.  We're a team.  And don't you ever accuse me again of endorsing white supremacists.    You can't read my mind.        

  


Edited by omphaloskepsis - October 14 2018 at 12:57
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2018 at 13:37
^ Fair enough.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2018 at 14:40
^ better man than me David.  I'll stay out of that particular conversation for my views are well known and already bluntly expressed.

however.. let me hit you on this.

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

I think he'll win in 2020.   Even if something happens like a war or economic downturn, I can't think of a single potential candidate, Dem or Rep, that will be in a position to beat him.


really...  I can think of 2 that can not only beat him, but do so badly.

so let me pick your brains.. 

1) how does Trump beat Biden

2) how does Trump beat Warren

knowing all we know now and perhaps if you remember.. my particular points of why I think either will not only beat him but thrash him.  Remember my friend..  even against Clinton and with no record or history to run against... he barely won in 2016.  It is not enough to hold on to his support to win 2020 he had to have increased his support and if you have seen any evidence that he has.. please show it to me for I have seen nothing but evidence that his non radical right, ie moderate support is slipping badly. To say nothing of appealing to anyone that did not support him in 2016


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2018 at 14:57
His non-radical Right may be slipping but his Silent Majority is as strong as ever.   Trump beats Warren easily, the same way he beat everyone else: because he has the support, and the same people who voted against Hillary (which was actually more a pro-Trump vote) will vote against Warren.   In fact Warren would likely get fewer votes than Hillary in the last election.   Evidence?   None, just socio-political instinct on my part, and I don't have nearly the political experience or insight that you have so you probably shouldn't listen to me.  

And though I and many others love Biden (I think he's actually had a kind of renaissance lately), I don't see how he wins in the current climate.   He just doesn't have the passionate supporters, the excitement, the youthfulness.   The votes.

Trump has emerged as the holy savior of the Right, and it doesn't matter that he's crude, ignorant, gross, and reflexive rather than contemplative.   His people love him on a scale that rivals Obama or Reagan.   That's a winning environment for him, economy good or bad doesn't matter.   Support for him has developed to a point I don't think you & I are even aware of, and I don't doubt he will be quite easily seen by many Americans as one of the best presidents in history.

And I'll tell you something else:  If lefties keep ceaselessly bashing Trump, especially over spite rather than real issues, it will improve his chances not hurt them.   Something to consider.




Edited by Atavachron - October 14 2018 at 15:15
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2018 at 15:05
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

 
I don't endorse white supremists! 

You seem to share their lack of spelling skills. Spell check is available, or do you need a tutorial?

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Who is Jason  Kessler?  He organized Charlottesville White Supremist.  Bet you didn't know that... and I bet you don't this:
 1. Before Kessler led the Charlottesville White Supremists he Organized Democrat Occupy Wall Street demonstrations.

Lie #1. According to Kessler himself, he attended a Occupy Wall Street demonstration because of their anti-globalist attitudes. He did not lead, organize or do anything but attend a demonstration, didn't agree with their policies, and left. Never did anything further with the organization, never worked for CNN and never wrote articles for CNN at Occupy rallies. Next. 

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

2.   Kessler also worked for Obama until the very day Trump won the presidency.  Jason Kessler immediately flipped from a democrat organizer to a White Supremist.   Look it up...
3.  The few folks besides Kessler identified as White Supremists at Charlottesville have been identified as democrats working for the military industrial complex.  Look it up.

Lie #2. I did look it up, and it is indeed a lie. Kessler admitted to voting for Obama once in 2008. That's it. He was never an organizer for Democrats. He never worked for Obama. He is just another imbecile looking for approval from whichever group will take him. Considering white supremacists have a decided lack of acumen, he chose them. Because they can be manipulated (see Donald Trump/Russia campaign). 

Here is an actual fact check. I can also provide other fact check sites that don't require wearing a tinfoil hat:

https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/08/17/jason-kessler-soros-deep-state-plant/

Lie #3. Your whole silly conspiracy theory regarding Democrats working for the "military complex" merely shows how easily a dupe like you and your Trumpolodytes can be manipulated. Also, the man who drove his car into a crowd of innocent protesters was a Nazi. He is being charged for murder and committing hate crimes. Hopefully, they fry his sorry ass.

https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2017/aug/21/blog-posting/story-obama-supporter-was-behind-wheel-car-charlot/

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

In 1920 there were over 3 million KKK.  Over 90% of the KKK were democrats.  Today?  There are a total of 6500 KKK and White Supremist in America. Sounds like Racism is dying out.   America population triples from  1920 till 2018.   Meanwhile the KKK population drops from over 3 million to 6500.  Do you personally know any white supremist who march or beat minorities?  I don't.  I don't know anybody who knows a white supremist.  Do you?  I'll  bet you don't.  Because they're rare as hen teeth. 

Poster incapable of comprehending historical/political context #1. Adolph Hitler's Nazi Party had relatively few direct party members in his rise to power. Today, someone putting their name down as a member of a terrorist group like the KKK leads to possible investigations by the FBI, local law enforcement and employers as well -- they stick to their cute little Swastika-sites and meet in their mothers' basements. In reality, the KKK, White Supremacists and Nazis are all voting Republicans in the last 50+ years. When Democrat President Lyndon Johnson forced the Civil Rights Acts through Congress, the so-called Dixie-crats, those southern Democrats exemplified by members of the KKK, became voting Republicans from then on. More on that in the next comment.

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Lincoln was a republican.   The Jim Crow laws were created by Democrats.  Democrats miniplate black people and give them nothing while Trump has helped the black community get jobs and pride.  Trump created lowest Black unemployment ever.    Maybe you should read history of Democrat KKK and democrats discrimination against the black community. It was the racist democrats who voted for slavery.  Read your history! 

Poster incapable of comprehending historical/political context #2. That Lincoln was a Republican merely shows that the Republican party has not exemplified Lincoln's ideals for many decades. The Republican party is the only party to practice voter suppression (both through removing voters from state rolls or through illegal gerrymandering struck down by state and fed courts) across the U.S. They are anti-immigrants, anti-women and anti-just about everything this country was founded on. Not to mention enabling the criminal enterprise of mob boss Donald Trump.

Also, Nazis and white supremacists have won Republican primaries in Illinois, California and North Carolina. You and your ilk are voting for them and against regular Republican candidates (whether or not they may have souls). You and your despicable party own the Nazis and KKK for over 50 years.

Enough with the nonsense.


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to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2018 at 15:22
hahah.. said much better than I ever could have.  Enablers.. that is what Trump voter was.  

I can have respect at least for the bigots and racists that own up to their vote. Those that hide behind other issues, yet knowing behind their selfishness and ignorance was a vote for a candidate that willfully used hate and division and others racism and bigotry for the basis of his support sicken me.

Yes Trump voter.. you are no better than the German in the 30's .. who looked the other way and stuck their heads in the sand then later claimed no knowledge or responsibility for what happened. That won't happen here of course.. but the fact remains..  you and your vote prepetuated the hate and racism that is still very much a part of this country.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2018 at 15:36
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

His non-radical Right may be slipping but his Silent Majority is as strong as ever.   Trump beats Warren easily, the same way he beat everyone else: because he has the support, and the same people who voted against Hillary (which was actually more a pro-Trump vote) will vote against Warren.   In fact Warren would likely get fewer votes than Hillary in the last election.   Evidence?   None, just socio-political instinct on my part, and I don't have nearly the political experience or insight that you have so you probably shouldn't listen to me.  

And though I and many others love Biden (I think he's actually had a kind of renaissance lately), I don't see how he wins in the current climate.   He just doesn't have the passionate supporters, the excitement, the youthfulness.   The votes.

Trump has emerged as the holy savior of the Right, and it doesn't matter that he's crude, ignorant, gross, and reflexive rather than contemplative.   His people love him on a scale that rivals Obama or Reagan.   That's a winning environment for him, economy good or bad doesn't matter.   Support for him has developed to a point I don't think you & I are even aware of, and I don't doubt he will be quite easily seen by many Americans as one of the best presidents in history.

And I'll tell you something else:  If lefties keep ceaselessly bashing Trump, especially over spite rather than real issues, it will improve his chances not hurt them.   Something to consider.



and long reply.... captch'd...  didn't see an emoticon .. didn't save. Nor did I get a f**king Muffin either..

f**king site hahaha

try again later my friend
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2018 at 16:06
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

His non-radical Right may be slipping but his Silent Majority is as strong as ever.   Trump beats Warren easily, the same way he beat everyone else: because he has the support, and the same people who voted against Hillary (which was actually more a pro-Trump vote) will vote against Warren.   In fact Warren would likely get fewer votes than Hillary in the last election.   Evidence?   None, just socio-political instinct on my part, and I don't have nearly the political experience or insight that you have so you probably shouldn't listen to me.  

And though I and many others love Biden (I think he's actually had a kind of renaissance lately), I don't see how he wins in the current climate.   He just doesn't have the passionate supporters, the excitement, the youthfulness.   The votes.

Trump has emerged as the holy savior of the Right, and it doesn't matter that he's crude, ignorant, gross, and reflexive rather than contemplative.   His people love him on a scale that rivals Obama or Reagan.   That's a winning environment for him, economy good or bad doesn't matter.   Support for him has developed to a point I don't think you & I are even aware of, and I don't doubt he will be quite easily seen by many Americans as one of the best presidents in history.

And I'll tell you something else:  If lefties keep ceaselessly bashing Trump, especially over spite rather than real issues, it will improve his chances not hurt them.   Something to consider.



let's try this again hahah and starting with your last point for that ties in the whole reasoning that Trump will need to pull another Hoodini act to win in 2020 and yet without a Hillary Clinton to run against this time...

Trump bashing will work David...  look at how well Hillary bashing worked.  Will it be enough?  Perhaps but perhaps not and if that was all the Democrats had to run on... no...  I'd say it would be a 50-50 chance he has to win.

The only chances that Trump has to win are that HIllary somehow gets the 2020 nomination... starts a war which was a strong fear among some of us knowing our history that no sitting wartime President has ever lost an election. Even Trump knows that. However now that it has been established he is no longer truly comannder and chief and likely couldn't start a war even if he ordered one I think we can eliminate that as a possible reason.

the 3rd and most realistic chance is that the Democrats forget the lessons learned in 2016 that playing cultural and ID politics may have worked for Obama but is not enough to win in the hands of others. The lesson that was learned that the party has to reach out and appeal to working class voters.

Will they? Who knows.. but I know two of the slew of possible opponents that Trump might face that can and will appeal strongly to those voters thus eating into base of support that won him the election.

yes.. those 2. Biden and Warren. Biden is screwd enough politically to not ingnore that lesson and has established a rapport and base of support with them.  Warren though is a different kind of creature.. she is  a true believer in the lower classes getting the shaft and can wave that populism sword more effectively than Biden and would stand in stark contrast to Trump who did wave the economic populist sword briliantly even if completely snake oil selling his voters. Rich guy.. f**king over the little guy his whole life.. sure man.. he cares about you.

Warren might lose a few corporate Democrats but that will be more than offset by eating into Trump's working class support, especially in the rust belt and more than offset by bringing back home the progressives that either sat out 2016 or voted 3rd party in a tiff because of what they felt happened to Bernie. She has all the energy and passion behind her.  

I do think Warren will smoke Trump.. and Biden could as well but I like her chances more than Biden's who of course Trump is said to fear more.  By defeating Warren in the primaries, fair or not, the progressives who are majorly amped up for her, he risks losing the support of them in the general election and as you note. All the passion and energy is behind Warren it is not behind Biden. 

That is why I think she will emerge from the Democratic primaries and with an energized left, and moderates/women leaving Trump in droves.. and taking a segment of Trump's core rust belt support.. he is toast IMO in a contest against Warren and likely so still against Biden. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2018 at 16:23
I so hope you're right, Mike.   But that's the rub of American politics, isn't it: It would seem what matters is who is more excited, fired up, or in some cases afraid, and apparently that's the Dems right now.   But as I mentioned, Trump enjoys a Reagan/Obama-like support and we all know what happened to Reagan and Obama--  they were highly successful, highly regarded, and both were Two-termers.   With these job numbers, Warren won't be able to lay a glove on Trump, and your projected ship-jumping of the Rustbelt from Trump to Warren seems like wishful thinking to me.


"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2018 at 16:43
jesus David.. hope really has nothing to do with it for I've pretty much lost hope and faith in America and its voters to vote intelligently and rationally.  2016 put any sense of America's doing the right thing right into the f**king insinuator with Trump happily pissing on those ashes.

It is all about the numbers and the trends. Even if Trump lost NONE of his 2016 support.. which of course he has not. Some, old white male are in the grave or soon to be, and others... like traditional moderates that took a chance on him are apparantly (and the midterms will likely confirm it) leaving him and the party in droves.

then there is the example I put some time back.. while Trump will struggle to even maintain the support that won him an election by the skin of his teeth.. the Democrats will not the baggage of Hillary Clinton in any of its nominees this time and as I noted some time back as I watched an entire busfull of kids offload and how many whites were there in that bus.. 1.. ONE.   All those kids will be of voting age in 2020 and do you really think Trump has done anyting to appeal to them, or to anyone that did not support him in 2020.

It isn't a matter of hope, it is faith in the numbers and the trends that Trump and the Republicans can do nothing about except make worse.. and that is exactly what they have done.

In fact I rate Trump's chances to be the first sitting President in US history to get 'primary'd' to be greater than his chance to win a 2nd term and that is why I do..  what is left of the old school Republican Party knows he is toast in 2020 and will fight hard to try to save what is left of the party before Democrats take all 3 branches and perhaps as I noted hold the reigns of power for a decade or more in a progressive 'Warren' revolution very similar to what we had happen with Reagan.  The third time might have been a charm for the failure of Republican economic policies and if Warren gets the Oval Office.. it will not be corporate America getting the love and the working man the f**king shaft and crumbs.  Just the opposite...

Amazing how well that might end up playing...  in terms of real results and seeing wages and standard of living increase....and perhaps creating a real political dynasty ala Reagan.


Edited by micky - October 14 2018 at 16:44
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2018 at 00:02
Sorry, but I don't agree, although I find your arguments compelling and persuasive. It's exactly how I though things would go in 2016, and look what happened.

I believe Trump will be reelected in 2020, simply because .... Americans.




Oh, and the Russians of course, without whom ....
Oh, and gerrymandering of course, without which ....
Oh, and hacked election software of course, without which ....
Oh, and voter suppression a la Georgia's Brian Kemp, without whom ....


Edited by npjnpj - October 15 2018 at 00:18
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2018 at 03:51
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:


Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

I think he'll win in 2020.   Even if something happens like a war or economic downturn, I can't think of a single potential candidate, Dem or Rep, that will win...


really...  I can think of 2 that can not only beat him, but do so badly.

so let me pick your brains.. 

1) how does Trump beat Biden

2) how does Trump beat Warren

First off, Trump will have a field day beating up on both Warren and Biden until old Joe sucker punches Donald in a debate, and secondly, they can be beaten by a slim margin just like 2016. This is not a game of horseshoes where just getting close matters. A win is a win.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2018 at 05:16
Dark Elf.  I don't believe anything Snopes or Politifact says. Who made Snopes the God of Truth?  Just because someone claims to be a fact checker doesn't make it true.   So Dark Elf...you like Jason Kessler and believe everything he says.  I think Kessler is a liar.  Kessler was active with Occupy up through November 5th of 2016.  He started his White Group in Jan 2017.  Can you name 3 members of his group.  You can't because its a Shell Racist group with paid protester.    But since you defend Kessler Elf maybe you can contact him and join his club.    The Left supports Kessler.  The ACLU defended him. Suddenly Kessler's first pro right Trump tweet occurred on Nov. 6 2016.  Before that?  Radical democrat, pro gun control.   Go read Kessler's earlier tweets.   All the famous folks on the Right know Kessler works for the Left to start violence with paid protesters and make it look like  KKK are everywhere.  Nationwide, there are still an estimated 3,000 Klan members and unaffiliated people who "identify with Klan ideology," according to the ADL. Membership, though, remains spread across dozens of groups. The largest Klans reportedly don't have more than 50 to 100 active members, and most have fewer than 25.     The media makes it sound like the KKK has millions of followers.   




   https://www.salon.com/2018/07/05/michael-miselis-rise-above-movement-white-supremacist-group-northrop-grumman_partner/

https://www.stripes.com/news/us/marine-under-investigation-after-being-featured-in-new-report-on-white-supremacists-1.525485/vasillios-pistolis-1.525486


  Since you hate Trump you must love WAR because Trump hasn't started a new war like the Bushes, Clinton, and Obama started war    Bottom line- I hate WAR and love Peace.   I don't care if the President is Democrat, Republican, or an Elf...as long as the President doesn't start wars then I'll vote the him/her/elf.    

What about North Korea?  Has there ever been a time in the last 60 years were American's relationship with North Korea was better?  More peaceful?   I love peace.    Do you love war Dark Elf?  What's your deal?  Are you a fascist or communist Dark Elf?   I know what you hate Elf.  What do you like?  Communism? 

Trump saved my family thousands of dollars by lowering taxes and ending the Obamacare Mandate.  I'll bet Dark Elf wants America's economy to fail so he can crow like a rooster and bash Trump.  Trump helps folks of all color.   Lowest unemployment ever for Blacks and Hispanics.  Lowest unemployment for women since 1953.  Wages rising.  Bonuses galore.    

No Russian collusion.  Trump was right...His campaign was spied on by FBI.  Americans votes are sacred and FBI and DOJ and several Obama folks plotted to undo a Peaceful transfer of Power.    That's very uncool.




Edited by omphaloskepsis - October 15 2018 at 06:57
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2018 at 07:23
Yikes! It's like being forced to look into a parallel universe. Easy on the bile, dear lady.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2018 at 07:47
^ Ompha is the gift that keeps giving. If you want to see inside the mind of a true trump believer, there it is up there in black and white.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2018 at 07:58
^ Which is why the Donald will most likely be re-elected.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2018 at 08:15
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


^ Which is why the Donald will most likely be re-elected.

Too many gullible sheep?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2018 at 08:16
The aluminum foil industry is definitely a great investment these days.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2018 at 08:38
I sold all my alum stock in 1972. Who would have thought?
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