| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
micky 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46828
|
 Posted: April 08 2018 at 08:53 |
 rogerthat wrote:
micky wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
Bumping up this thread to post an interesting article that argues that the white working class may not in fact be voting against their own interests.
|
returning to this topic again.... Doc mentioned this in another thread (one of the many political threads we have had going around recently ahha) the disbelief some have (even the press ^) that poor old salt of the earth blue collar worker could vote against his own economic self interest.
bullsh*t is what I call it... always have always will... and much it IS liberal elitism. For few look at it from the opposite spectrum.. in fact.. I have done the only research into that I have ever seen.
For it isn't just Trump voter that votes against their own economic self interest.. it was Clinton voter
micky wrote:
10 Weathiest Counties in US by median household income<ul ="_kye"=""><li ="_axc"="">Loudoun County, Va.; $122,238.[COLOR=#990000] Clinton by 30 points over Trump<li ="_axc"="">Falls Church City, Va. (independent city); $120,000. Clinton by 58 points over Trump<li ="_axc"="">Fairfax County, Va.; $110,292. Clinton by 36 points over Trump<li ="_axc"="">Howard County, Md.; $109,865. Clinton by 34 points over Trump<li ="_axc"="">Los Alamos County, NM; $106,686. Clinton by 20 points over Trump<li ="_axc"="">Hunterdon County, NJ; $106,143. Trump by 14 points over Clinton<li ="_axc"="">Arlington County, Va.; $103,208. Clinton by 60 points over Trump <li ="_axc"="">Douglas County, Colo.; $101,591 Trump by 18 points over Clinton<li ="_axc"="">Somerset County, NJ; $99,020 Clinton by 13 points over Trump<li ="_axc"="">Morris County, NJ; $98,633 Trump by 4 points over Clinton
what about education 10 most educated Counties in US by % with a Graduate Degree - Arlington County, Va; 36.7%. Clinton by 60 points over Trump
- Alexandria City, Va; 32.9%. Clinton by 59 points over Trump
- Montgomery County, Maryland; 31.6% Clinton by 55 points over Trump
- [COLOR=#0000FF]District of Columbia; 30.6%. Clinton by 88 points over Trump
- Howard County, Md.; 30.5%. Clinton by 34 points over Trump
- Fairfax County, Va.; 30.2%. Clinton by 36 points over Trump
- Orange County, N.C.; 30% Clinton by 51 points over Trump
- New York County, N.Y.; 28.5% Clinton by 77 points over Trump
- Tomkins County, N.Y.; 28.4% Clinton by 42 points over Trump
- Washtenaw County, Mi.; 28.3% Clinton by 41 points over Trump
|
the well off and best educated.. who stand the most to gain economically under Trump .. voted overwhelming against him. The elitists in us laughs at Trump voter for voting for fools that play them for fools economically but that has been happening for years.. and yet they still vote reliably for them. Why? Same as the core of Hillaries support.. many .. a great many do not vote on economics.. they vote on social issues. |
Exactly, culture, not economics. I mean, you can call it values, race, religion, whatever, but it boils down to the culture that voters envisage for their country. You cannot assign a tangible value to it but that doesn't mean people don't perceive it as being in their interest to determine culture. |
Iain brought this up in another thread.. perhaps tongue in cheek.. perhaps not but regardless it is true in its own warped way.
it is about selflessness.
the core Trump supporter.. I suppose deep down they know his promises to rbring back 1950's America were bogus... and that the Republican Party has shown for the last 30 years that all it really cares about econoimcaloy is enriching the truly rich in the assinine and disproven several times over notion that wealth at the very top trickles down to the peons.
I'd like to think they are smart enough to not buy that line sh*t.. not truly.. but that they vote selflessly in a warped kind of way. Not voting for the party that has consistently shown is the one that cares about their well being.. but for the party that stands for a vision of America that is more important to them than their own well being.
and without taking the trouble to write out the exact converse the opposite holds true on the other side. A different kind of selflessness... yeah... they could do better under Republicans.. but they are doing damn well regardless and have the time and inclination to care about something more than themselves and getting an extra couple hundred or thousands on the paycheck.. .it is about where this country has been, where it is , and where it should be going.
of course that only talks to core of each side.... the middle? Hard to say... they broke Trump but for what reason? The economy thanks to Obama was doing great... one would presume they .. unlike the fringes that either f**ked economically or well off.. to the point that both sides have the luxury to vote upon 'social issues and the culture war.. they would more inclinded to vote upon meat and potato finanical issues. My head however is scratched bald since Nov '16 wondering what they saw in Trump... granted though he took the middle class it was very close.. perhaps reflecting those who voted by their pocketbooks and should have voted Clinton and more of the status quo of a good economy.. or voted Trump and his 'Make American White' campaign message...
as I've often said Madan.. some day books, novels, hollywood movies will be made about that election. Still today it amazes and shocks.. time hasn't lessened the surprise and shock haha
|
|
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
 |
rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
|
Posted: April 08 2018 at 09:01 |
^^^ Well, for starters, it was a very close election and as I mentioned in another thread and you agreed too, Trump won key battleground/blue states by wafer thin margins where a third party candidate stole votes from Clinton. Sometimes, in fact a lot of times, it comes down to that kind of infuriating arithmetic. It feels unfair and to be sure, the first-past-the-post system IS unfair. In politics, one doesn't HAVE to plump for a particular candidate to get him elected. Not feeling enthused by the alternative is enough. We coined an acronym for it in India in the bad old days when Indira Gandhi ruled term after term with no opposition to speak of. TINA, aka, There Is No Alternative.
|
|
micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46828
|
Posted: April 08 2018 at 09:04 |
rogerthat wrote:
micky wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
Regarding what night USA gain from a trade war, the only angle that makes any sense is forcing a settlement on North Korea. Since Trump is slated to visit Kim Jong in May, the timing of the trade war seems opportune or inopportune depending on how it plays out. |
yes... but as far as my understanding of the situation we already have China on our side on this. For THEIR own reasons of course... but still on our side that. What more could Trump or the US realistically ask?
No.. this is all about economics. Remember.. Trump made a lot of promises to his supporters. Promises most of us knew he couldn't keep, but the red hatters couldn't be bothered with reality or the discomfiture of independent thought.
Anyhow the clock is ticking... in less than 2 years he will be before the voters again. He has to start delivering.. has to show something other than a tax cut that snicker snicker... most benefits the 1%r GOP donor class and high income Clinton supporters more than it does his core blue collar supporters. |
True, I was thinking of that too. Trump has already persuaded China to tell NK to mind their place. I am not sure more was needed. The part about taking drastic and possibly disastrous measures to keep election promises is all too familiar. Trump's good friend in Asia (possibly his ONLY friend) Modi inflicted demonetisation on us for similar reasons. It is hopefully the burden of promises they can't keep that will bring these 'strongmen' crumbling down. Though...I am confused as an Indian as to who I can visualise as the alternative Prime Minister. Congress party scion Rahul Gandhi is like Justin Trudeau and I don't mean that in a good way. I am afraid he too, being naive, will be misled by advisers to take disastrous steps like Trudeau inviting a Sikh terrorist to a meet in Mumbai and then blaming it on a conspiracy by unnamed (and possibly non existent) rogue Indian politicians. But I do know I don't want Modi back in the saddle for another term come what may, so thank God for some clarity.
|
yeah.. it is all too familiar.. as I've said we sort of have to place our faith, though they haven't given us one iota of any basis for any hope, in our Congress to stop the madness and finally stand up to Trump and the implied threat of retribution by red hatters in the voting booth come this November.
Edited by micky - April 08 2018 at 09:06
|
|
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
|
npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
|
Posted: April 09 2018 at 16:37 |
|
Deleted
Edited by npjnpj - April 09 2018 at 16:43
|
|
progaardvark
Collaborator
Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Sea of Peas
Status: Offline
Points: 48705
|
Posted: April 10 2018 at 07:18 |
The information sources that Trump supporters rely on is another problem in the U.S. How do you have a conversation with a Trump supporter when they have been brain-washed into thinking that what have been reliable sources for decades are simply dismissed with the terms "mainstream media" or "liberal media" or "academia" as if they were derogatory terms? How does one get these folks out of the rabbit holes they've fallen into?
|
|
----------
i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag
that's a happy bag of lettuce
this car smells like cartilage
nothing beats a good video about fractions
|
|
npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
|
Posted: April 10 2018 at 09:10 |
|
Education?
Oh wait, Betsy DeVos.
And while we're on the topic of education: who's going to tell Trump that in his case it's actually called a warlock hunt?
Edited by npjnpj - April 10 2018 at 09:28
|
|
micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46828
|
Posted: April 11 2018 at 18:49 |
progaardvark wrote:
The information sources that Trump supporters rely on is another problem in the U.S. How do you have a conversation with a Trump supporter when they have been brain-washed into thinking that what have been reliable sources for decades are simply dismissed with the terms "mainstream media" or "liberal media" or "academia" as if they were derogatory terms? How does one get these folks out of the rabbit holes they've fallen into?
|
let's be completely fair here.. it isn't just the red hatters who find solace in the echo chamber of being told what to think on FauxNews as well as having the news 'filtered' for them .. it happens on the left as well.
I make no apologies nor would would my politics be mistaken to be anyone but very partisan and biased... yet like many.. I have turned away from popular news sources like CNN or MSN. As I often say.. I have a brain enough to form my own opinions... I don't need to be told what to think. All I need are the raw materials.
Like a good many these days.. I get my political news from independent sites. Purely news.. very little bias or commentary. I use 2 myself. One rated slightly left of center.. one slightly right of center. Though to be honest.. I've never picked up a bias on either Politico on teh left.. and TheHill on the right. They give me what I want.. and most SHOULD want.. just the facts bitch... let me draw the conclusions myself.
|
|
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
|
rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
|
Posted: April 11 2018 at 19:05 |
micky wrote:
progaardvark wrote:
The information sources that Trump supporters rely on is another problem in the U.S. How do you have a conversation with a Trump supporter when they have been brain-washed into thinking that what have been reliable sources for decades are simply dismissed with the terms "mainstream media" or "liberal media" or "academia" as if they were derogatory terms? How does one get these folks out of the rabbit holes they've fallen into?
|
let's be completely fair here.. it isn't just the red hatters who find solace in the echo chamber of being told what to think on FauxNews as well as having the news 'filtered' for them .. it happens on the left as well.
I make no apologies nor would would my politics be mistaken to be anyone but very partisan and biased... yet like many.. I have turned away from popular news sources like CNN or MSN. As I often say.. I have a brain enough to form my own opinions... I don't need to be told what to think. All I need are the raw materials.
Like a good many these days.. I get my political news from independent sites. Purely news.. very little bias or commentary. I use 2 myself. One rated slightly left of center.. one slightly right of center. Though to be honest.. I've never picked up a bias on either Politico on teh left.. and TheHill on the right. They give me what I want.. and most SHOULD want.. just the facts bitch... let me draw the conclusions myself. |
On somewhat similar lines, I try to READ rather than WATCH news. The news that is made in video format, either for TV or youtube, is usually sensationalised and infantilizing. People, if you can read, then put that skill to use. Grab a newspaper or at least go to the online outlet of said newspaper. Or websites like Politico. And I try to read outlets that I know are slightly left and right leaning because I don't WANT to listen to the echo chamber. But, usually, the divergence is not so sharp in print and print in fact accommodates views from the other side of the ideological divide as well. Like center right columnists writing for left leaning outlets.
|
|
Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 64349
|
Posted: April 11 2018 at 19:13 |
progaardvark wrote:
How do you have a conversation with a Trump supporter when they have been brain-washed into thinking that what have been reliable sources for decades are simply dismissed with the terms "mainstream media" or "liberal media" or "academia" as if they were derogatory terms? |
You don't. I once witnessed a Trump voter politely remove himself from a conversation about politics & Trump by simply saying "Excuse me, I'm a Trump supporter, I'll excuse myself so things don't get heated". Not all Trumpers are that thoughtful.
|
|
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
|
|
micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46828
|
Posted: April 11 2018 at 19:13 |
|
oh I remember well Krautheimer articles in the Post... I agree.. you are much more likely to find 'balance' in print media.. of course part of the problem is few read today.. they watch. Granted I only get the Post these days to see if Micky D's is hiring when I have bad days at work.. as well as getting kicks from reading the personal ads .. but I'd consider today's independent internet media to be just as valid as old school print media. I'm sure the sites I rely upon, Politico on the left, RollCall in the center, and TheHill on the right are also in teh business of making money as much as Faux and MSN.. but I suppose they understand they are filliing a void left by print media in that they only report the news and events.. not having been such business ventures as others have become where they are actively catering to certain audiences.. thus obviously their validity and credibility as reliable news sources suffers and becomes 2nd fiddle to making the audience happy.. keeping ratings up.. by telling the knuckleheads.. both left and right.. want they want to hear.
|
|
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
|
rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
|
Posted: April 11 2018 at 19:17 |
micky wrote:
oh I remember well Krautheimer articles in the Post... I agree.. you are much more likely to find 'balance' in print media.. of course part of the problem is few read today.. they watch. Granted I only get the Post these days to see if Micky D's is hiring when I have bad days at work.. as well as getting kicks from reading the personal ads .. but I'd consider today's independent internet media to be just as valid as old school print media. I'm sure the sites I rely upon, Politico on the left, RollCall in the center, and TheHill on the right are also in teh business of making money as much as Faux and MSN.. but I suppose they understand they are filliing a void left by print media in that they only report the news and events.. not having been such business ventures as others have become where they are actively catering to certain audiences.. thus obviously their validity and credibility as reliable news sources suffers and becomes 2nd fiddle to making the audience happy.. keeping ratings up.. by telling the knuckleheads.. both left and right.. want they want to hear. |
Those websites which do have lengthy and well researched articles are more likely to be reliable. Maybe not each and every time but just by the effort they put in their content, one can surmise they take news dissemination seriously and aren't only looking to grab eyeballs.
|
|
micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46828
|
Posted: April 11 2018 at 19:21 |
|
actually I met the old editor of Politico once (she moved on after the last election).. a real sweetheart... (and f**king hotter than hell hahh). Kristen Roberts. We had a good long talk about all of this. It is something they (and surely all these sites) take a great deal of pride in.. and do think that thoughtful.. unbiased reporting still has an audience in today's polarized environment.
|
|
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
|
dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20468
|
Posted: April 11 2018 at 19:24 |
|
|
|
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
|
|
micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46828
|
Posted: April 11 2018 at 19:28 |
yeah.. need to dig up the Trump firing Mueller thread Doc... agree with some... Rosenstein goes this week. Even Trump, minus the bullsh*t and bluster knows he can't touch Mueller.. directly.
My prediction. .Rosenstein is fired Friday night (after everone has stopped caring about things for a few days).. in his place.. someone who can and will bury the hatchet into Mulller and take the heat for it.
seems Mueller is getting too close to what Trump has been hiding....
|
|
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
|
dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20468
|
Posted: April 11 2018 at 19:49 |
What amazes me is that Trump would actually run for President in the first place .People like him, rich and involved with many shady business deals over the years, must have plenty of skeletons in their closet. Certainly he must have realized that there was a chance that some of these indiscretions would come out after he was elected since so many don't like him to begin with. I don't think any specific Russian election collusion will be found but I'm betting he has plenty of unethical/illegal business deals both here and abroad that could sink him if discovered. This might be what they are trying to find with these recent seizures of data. For me it's not even so much about the left right politics since I think good ideas about governing can be found on both sides when one removes the hatred and bias. For me it's about the man.....he's an obnoxious jerk and simply not a nice person. He's the uncle no one ever invites to the Christmas party because no one likes him.
|
|
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
|
|
micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46828
|
Posted: April 11 2018 at 19:59 |
really Doc... perhaps it isnt exactly well known.
typical in that it makes perfect sense. Trump cares for one thing.. Trump and his brand name
Trump never expected to win.. that wasn't the goal to win. He had planned on launching his own Trump branded TV network or some sh*t like that to battle Faux, and Breitbart.. and was using the election as the highest of publicity.
As I've said since day 2 of the Trump Presidency.. not just for him..but for the Repubican Party. In the dictionary under
catastrophic success..
will be found an entry for the 2016 election.
Trump never worried too much about all he had to hide.. he never really expected to win.. thus he could hide things.. like his tax returns.. but like the Republican Party.. which also never expected to win.. by winning .. all the smoke led too many people (like Comey) to ask.. is there a fire.. and for the poor Repubicans. A party bankrupt of ideas that had successfully existed as an opposition party.. proposing nothing helpful or new.. only being 'against' or obstructing what the Democrats wanted.. suddenly had NO excuse.. and had to goven from the position of power.
and as we've seen.. they have no ideas, no idea how to govern... only to fall back upon pleasing the big donors that finance them.. and just hope they can continue to stir up hatred of Democrats and minorities to keep their supporters .... still voting for them.
|
|
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
|
npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
|
Posted: May 15 2018 at 15:24 |
|
This business about separating children from the parents of illegal immigrants seems a bit tasteless to me.
Reminds me of something. Oh yes, this is what the nazis did to the jews in the concentration camps?
I'm sure they had a perfectly good reason at the time, something along the lines of what Sessions and Nielsen are saying now, only now adjusted slightly to accommodate modern wooly thinking.
As far as I know, this was the last time something like that was done, but I might be wrong. It possibly might have happened in some rebel-ridden third-world country since then, but I wouldn't know at this time.
|
|
npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
|
Posted: May 19 2018 at 06:38 |
Oh dear, another school shooting, in Santa Fe this time.
I suppose that's what what you have to accept when you value the right to carry arms higher than the right to live.
But, as they say, you have to respect foreign cultures, regardless of how strange some of them may seem.
|
|
The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 12681
|
Posted: May 19 2018 at 09:56 |
npjnpj wrote:
Oh dear, another school shooting, in Santa Fe this time.
I suppose that's what what you have to accept when you value the right to carry arms higher than the right to live.
But, as they say, you have to respect foreign cultures, regardless of how strange some of them may seem.
|
I always find humor in the contemptible hypocrisy of rabid 2nd Amendment advocates, who stridently demand more and more guns so that they can retain the option of rebelling against the republic for which they profess such love.
|
|
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
|
|
npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
|
Posted: June 06 2018 at 04:45 |
Just out of interest, seeing that you guys are from all over the globe and I'm not attaching any opinion or judgement here:
Does anyone know of any other country in the world apart from the USA, in which the government forceably takes away toddlers and children from their parents and locks them up in cages?
|
|
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
The American Politics Thread
![[â&#128;&#139;IMG]](https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/7mUSU43MW70KbUMOQ1OAF_ggkfW5LDuzPhv1g-L6YIhV56uQT3hXjRfpb9-cbIbvAC2m4AR1ZTG6xnBSLRauunDrw7mWw55BMDOBdGOD4dCFvpWLzSXd0I9c82XRn2Ij1uNIIcgPN5HnvK44k4iScgt1gABEuEKvxyB5XP6n=s0-d-e1-ft#https://nuk-tnl-deck-prod-static.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/uploads/0e3b748d6e343c4c334262e7edda75cc.png "[â&#128;&#139;IMG]")