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What was the genesis of Prog-Metal?

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Tom Ozric View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2017 at 23:11
MAGMA - the piece 'De Futura' - proto Death-Metal IMO !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pastmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2017 at 23:40
Proto black metal:



Wouldn't be surprised if Venom and Bathory took some influence from this song. Wink


Edited by Pastmaster - March 19 2017 at 23:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2017 at 23:50
It would be helpful if the OP defined what he means by "the genesis of prog-metal".   It is unclear what point he's interested in; early glimmers, first definitive band/album, or fully formed subgenre.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kepler62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2017 at 02:43
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

It would be helpful if the OP defined what he means by "the genesis of prog-metal".   It is unclear what point he's interested in; early glimmers, first definitive band/album, or fully formed subgenre.


Yeah I scanned dow the thread everyone seem s to be talking about who invented metal. To be quite honest I think that there are too many made up sub genres on this site which adds to the confusion that leads to these sometimes ludicrous "what is what isn't prog" threads . I even noticed that this site has even categorized Split Enz as sore form of progressive rock. Never seen that reference anywhere ever. Next thing you know Marilyn Manson will be showing up here. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2017 at 03:48
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

MAGMA - the piece 'De Futura' - proto Death-Metal IMO !!

It's zeuhl for headbangers, that's for sure. 


Edited by Mascodagama - March 20 2017 at 03:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2017 at 04:04
Another interesting "who dunnit thread". I'm going to assume that the OP is searching for something akin to "proto prog metal" and that puts many artists in the running from the acid rock of "Purple Haze" to early hard rock opuses from Deep Purple. There's no smoking gun. Just a bevy of ice cold gun barrels.
"I see no hope, but I could be wrong." - Pete Seeger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2017 at 04:11
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

MAGMA - the piece 'De Futura' - proto Death-Metal IMO !!


It's zeuhl for headbangers, that's for sure. 

So is Sl*g Tanz
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2017 at 04:13
Originally posted by Kepler62 Kepler62 wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

It would be helpful if the OP defined what he means by "the genesis of prog-metal".   It is unclear what point he's interested in; early glimmers, first definitive band/album, or fully formed subgenre.



Yeah I scanned dow the thread everyone seem s to be talking about who invented metal. To be quite honest I think that there are too many made up sub genres on this site which adds to the confusion that leads to these sometimes ludicrous "what is what isn't prog" threads . I even noticed that this site has even categorized Split Enz as sore form of progressive rock. Never seen that reference anywhere ever. Next thing you know Marilyn Manson will be showing up here. 
On the contrary - Split Enz debut 'Mental Notes' is full-blown Sympho-Prog in the vein of early Genesis !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flight123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2017 at 04:30
Agree on Split Enz - and the Magma notes!  I read somewhere that metal is prog's best mate...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2017 at 04:52
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

MAGMA - the piece 'De Futura' - proto Death-Metal IMO !!


It's zeuhl for headbangers, that's for sure. 

So is Sl*g Tanz

One could add Zombies to the list.
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Tom Ozric View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2017 at 04:54
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

MAGMA - the piece 'De Futura' - proto Death-Metal IMO !!


It's zeuhl for headbangers, that's for sure. 

So is Sl*g Tanz


One could add Zombies to the list.
Yeah, why not !! E-Re is there as well, esp. the Zombies section.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kepler62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2017 at 06:48
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Originally posted by Kepler62 Kepler62 wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

It would be helpful if the OP defined what he means by "the genesis of prog-metal".   It is unclear what point he's interested in; early glimmers, first definitive band/album, or fully formed subgenre.



Yeah I scanned dow the thread everyone seem s to be talking about who invented metal. To be quite honest I think that there are too many made up sub genres on this site which adds to the confusion that leads to these sometimes ludicrous "what is what isn't prog" threads . I even noticed that this site has even categorized Split Enz as sore form of progressive rock. Never seen that reference anywhere ever. Next thing you know Marilyn Manson will be showing up here. 
On the contrary - Split Enz debut 'Mental Notes' is full-blown Sympho-Prog in the vein of early Genesis !!

So  The Scorpions should be added as well? Listen to some of their early material. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2017 at 06:53
Originally posted by Kepler62 Kepler62 wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Originally posted by Kepler62 Kepler62 wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

It would be helpful if the OP defined what he means by "the genesis of prog-metal".   It is unclear what point he's interested in; early glimmers, first definitive band/album, or fully formed subgenre.



Yeah I scanned dow the thread everyone seem s to be talking about who invented metal. To be quite honest I think that there are too many made up sub genres on this site which adds to the confusion that leads to these sometimes ludicrous "what is what isn't prog" threads . I even noticed that this site has even categorized Split Enz as sore form of progressive rock. Never seen that reference anywhere ever. Next thing you know Marilyn Manson will be showing up here. 
On the contrary - Split Enz debut 'Mental Notes' is full-blown Sympho-Prog in the vein of early Genesis !!

So  The Scorpions should be added as well? Listen to some of their early material. 

Well, they are krauts and they rock. Just sayin' 

Wink


Edited by Jeffro - March 20 2017 at 06:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uduwudu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2017 at 07:40
Most developments are a process. Yer first prog mental is Fly By Night. Heavy rock band using yer prog elements. I think Crim's Red might have been picked up later as people realized what they had passed by. Or the other way around.


Still metal is as entertaining as ever in a sideshow sort of way.

I find a lot of metal fans getting their watchmacallits in an uproar - as ever over what's metal and what's not. Latest is that Judas Priest are not metal, it's hard rock innit. Though my favourite was someone saying Metallica are disco. LOL Of curse Dweezil Zappa collaborating with Ozzy on a cover of Staying Alive (by  cross-over act the Bee Gees) just goes to show how close disco and metal is.

Seem that that the more ugly, brutal etc hard rock pop music gets the more metal it is. Once the musical elements get identified (30 years later) it gets relegated down the hierarchy like Simon and Garfunkel soundalikes ACDC probably including the notorious crooner Axl Rose.

The ultimate prog metal might be Weasels Ripped My Flesh with matching bass and drums for the ultimate (prog?) death-noise-black-metal.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2017 at 08:17
Genesis as prog metal?

Nah...

Maybe one or two songs stray into heavier territories, The Knife possibly, and I always though the opening chords of Lilywhite Lilith are pretty heavy, but prog metal?

No. Next... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Replayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2017 at 08:54
I think Rainbow was the Genesis of Prog-Metal.

Both bands started out out in a progressive direction, then shifted to a much more commercially successful poppier sound after their original lead singer left, then attempted returning to their classic sound in the 90s with a new singer, but then called it quits after one album. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2017 at 13:32
Originally posted by Kepler62 Kepler62 wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Originally posted by Kepler62 Kepler62 wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

It would be helpful if the OP defined what he means by "the genesis of prog-metal".   It is unclear what point he's interested in; early glimmers, first definitive band/album, or fully formed subgenre.
Yeah I scanned dow the thread everyone seem s to be talking about who invented metal. To be quite honest I think that there are too many made up sub genres on this site which adds to the confusion that leads to these sometimes ludicrous "what is what isn't prog" threads . I even noticed that this site has even categorized Split Enz as sore form of progressive rock. Never seen that reference anywhere ever. Next thing you know Marilyn Manson will be showing up here. 
On the contrary - Split Enz debut 'Mental Notes' is full-blown Sympho-Prog in the vein of early Genesis !!
So  The Scorpions should be added as well? Listen to some of their early material. 

The first Split Enz album is unequivocally Art-rock, and not adding them to PA would've been a serious oversight--  and since if a band produced one full prog record during their career they must be added, it was a proper selection.

The Scorps?   They've been discussed many times as an important early metal/art-metal band, especially alumni as Schenker and Ulrich Roth who influenced prog-metal.   They didn't really ever make a full prog album but they're close.




Edited by Atavachron - March 20 2017 at 13:33
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EGallager Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2017 at 16:45
I think King Crimson is one of the top contributors, fans of KC who were also into Sabbath and Zeppelin started to meld everything together which ended up being Heavy Metal. Throw in the the prog elements and you get today's Prog Metal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kepler62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2017 at 16:54
One thing that can be said for metal, whenever it started or whoever started it, is that it is probably the most enduring genre of rock music whether it be hair metal, speed metal, prog metal etc. etc. I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Lucifer Friend's first album yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2017 at 17:45
No one will ever agree on what is metal just like they won't agree on what is prog. I can believe someone saying JP were not metal because on youtube one guy insisted that Black Sabbath are not metal. His reason? Because BS did not consider themselves heavy metal. :) 
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