Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Do you think syd barrett is   overrated
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedDo you think syd barrett is overrated

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
Author
Message
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2017 at 04:32
NB: While my post follows Steve's, it's not written in response to anything he said. I'm good, but not even I can type 830 words (complete with hyperlinks) in 2 minutes. Wink
What?
Back to Top
Tom Ozric View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15891
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2017 at 04:36
^ You wouldn't wanna be 'Captcha'd' with that post, eh ?!
Back to Top
SteveG View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Online
Points: 19354
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2017 at 04:37
@Dean:
And I was good with your post. I do think that there is a difference when comparing Hendrix to Syd as Jimi was a virtuoso guitar player and puts him in a different category then Syd, IMO. However, the possibly of Jimi also ending up an "acid casualty", had he lived, was just as great as Syd's. I wonder how they would have compared had Jimi lived. 

Edited by SteveG - April 10 2017 at 04:37
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2017 at 04:40
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

^ You wouldn't wanna be 'Captcha'd' with that post, eh ?!
I was, several times, not only with posting it but also in the edits and when Previewing the post to proof-read it. Angry
What?
Back to Top
Tom Ozric View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15891
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2017 at 04:55
^ Man, what a PITA - I'd cry
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2017 at 04:55
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

@Dean:
And I was good with your post. I do think that there is a difference when comparing Hendrix to Syd as Jimi was a virtuoso guitar player and puts him in a different category then Syd, IMO. However, the possibly of Jimi also ending up an "acid casualty", had he lived, was just as great as Syd's. I wonder how they would have compared had Jimi lived. 
It's an interesting one. Hendrix famously toured with Syd's Floyd in 1967 though was somewhat dismissive of their music and didn't have anything to say about Barrett as such. I suspect that Barrett was as in awe of Hendrix as much as Gilmour was when he met Hendrix in Paris later that year. Barratt was never a virtuoso player but he was almost as innovative in his wanton abuse and misuse of the instrument and its effects pedals (without quite the theatrics of Hendrix and Townshend). As Henry Cow's Fred Frith observed in a series of articles entitled "Greatest Rock Solos of Our Time" published in NME way back then: " [Apples and Oranges] is my favourite wah-wah playing of all time – incredibly incisive and articulate. He makes the pedal hang always in the edge of feedback, which eventually breaks through as the final sound of the song."
What?
Back to Top
Dellinger View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 11869
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2017 at 20:37
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Of course Syd Barrett is overrated, it would be impossible for him not to be. Just as it is impossible for any cult figure not to be overrated: Jim Morrison, Nick Drake, Tim Buckley and Janis Joplin are all overrated by some and underappreciated by others. (Anyone who thought the antonym was 'underrated' go to the back of the class). Overrated is a misused and overused term that says very little about the artist being discussed and more about the people using it (not enough to leap to a conclusion thou') - if I said coffee is overrated that says more about me and my tastes than it does about coffee itself, however it doesn't mean you can deduce that I don't like coffee as a consequence; coffee-lovers will round on me and defend their love of coffee but that doesn't change my view that a grande skinny double-shot frappacappachino is just coffee. Syd Barrett was just a man with a guitar and some songs.

With some cult artists whose careers were cut short it is difficult to quantify their effect while with others it's piss-easy, anyone who dares to say Jimi Hendrix is overrated would be laughed out of the playground for example. It is easier still of course if that career was cut tragically short so elevation to cultdom was guaranteed by posthumous decree and universal public mourning. With Barrett it's not so easy because he didn't die so wasn't taken away leaving a hole of unrealised potential, but just withdrew from the public glare and with that sort of faded away. Yet with the benefit of hindsight and some understanding of context we can begin to see behind the myth and fable that has grown up around him. 

Speculation of his mental state, and the causes thereof, didn't really enter into the public consciousness until after the release of Wish You Were here, five years after his last solo album and some three years after Barrett had withdrawn from the music business. Between 1970 and 1973 Pink Floyd and Syd's Floyd were regarded by the media and fans alike as two separate entities, even their record company recognised this and tried to capitalise on the success of Meddle and Dark Side of the Moon with a budget-priced compilation and a retrospective repackaging of the two psychedelic-era Floyd albums as a toofa. As early as 1971 it was acceptable in Pink Floyd fandom to dismiss Piper and Saucerful, and all the 7" singles associated with them, as being relics of a different age, and with that to some extent, Syd Barrett. It seems strange today, but back then knowledge of a five-man Floyd was more of a rumour or myth than universal truth such that when David Bowie (following the release of Pin Ups) claimed to have seen a five-man Floyd perform on stage around 1967/8 it was met with doubt.

The seeds of Barrett's cult-status germinated around 1972 with the formation of the Syd Barrett Appreciation Society and its club fanzine 'Terrapin', but were sown a year or two earlier following rumours of aborted sessions for a third solo album; the hole of unrealised potential that appears as a gaping chasm moments after the untimely death of a musical hero was beginning to form around Barrett while he was still alive, much like it had around Brian Wilson for similar reasons. The promise that Barrett revealed on Piper At The Gates was yet to be seen in his solo work (which in itself was fast becoming eclipsed by Pink Floyd's rise to stardom following the #1 chart success of Atom Heart Mother released a month prior to his second album), people were expecting more and that pressure to deliver shows in later analysis, not only in the documented accounts of the recording sessions that have subsequently surfaced, but also in Barrett's reaction to the reception the albums and his sporadic live shows received.

If everything stands or falls on just the body of work he released then the record is not a great one if you measure it at face-value fifty years later. It would seem incongruous that such a fractured and some would say naive collection of songs would have spored such a far-reaching reaction in so many people that you would be forgiven in mistaking this for misplaced adulation of the myth rather than recognition and appreciation of his work. This suggests there is far more to his work than just surface detail just as there is far more to the man than the myth that surrounds him, his innovation and creativity are reflected below any superficial evaluation of mere notes and words, and analysis of guitar and studio technique (though all are a worthy place to start). The sections covering his creative impact and cultural influence given on Wikipedia, while far from being am exhaustive summary, suggests there is far more to this than just a bit of journalistic hype, nostalgia and faddish hipsterism. 




Well, I still don't fully understand the great hype on Jimi Hendrix. I just don't hear the greatness of his guitar playing, from the little I have heard, specially from his studio versions. Later, having heard some live albums, I think I find his playing there is much more interesting. However, I still prefer my prog guitar players.
Back to Top
axeman View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 13 2008
Location: Michigan, US
Status: Offline
Points: 226
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2017 at 23:01
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Well, I still don't fully understand the great hype on Jimi Hendrix. I just don't hear the greatness of his guitar playing, from the little I have heard, specially from his studio versions. Later, having heard some live albums, I think I find his playing there is much more interesting. However, I still prefer my prog guitar players.
Hendrix is known, by guitar players, by the feat of making a single guitar sound like two different guitars. He could play lead on the high 3 strings and provide his own rhythm on the low 3. He could hold a bar chord and still vibrato the melodic lead. 

His style was raucous, blues-based rock, so it's more raw and has more slop in it. He was more effect than technical display--except on songs like Little Wing. But he could do things with it that other people tried to match and failed. You have to know how many different finger positions were in one of his signature slide mordants, and how effortlessly they blend together in sound. And yet, you can watch Jimi on tape take a breath from singing and throw effortless fills in

Also, like any ground-breaker, kids picking up the guitar, started copying his technique. And so enough of his innovations are within the toolkit of a standard player these days. It's like watching Citizen Kane and noticing that you don't see anything that modern filmmakers don't do. And that's 100% true. But Well's techniques started to define film-making. (Still plenty of filmmakers these days don't construct mundane scenes from 4 overlays and glass mattes). 
-John
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2017 at 00:04
...and that is how you laugh someone out of the playground without making them feel bad. Clap
What?
Back to Top
Easy Money View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 9672
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2017 at 04:43
You could also add that Hendrix was held in high esteem by most 'prog' guitarists, particularly Mr Fripp. There is a reason why Hendrix was a fifth member of the Soft Machine way back when, and a frequent jam session partner with Keith Emerson. To know these things you have to get away from the mainstream press that focuses on drug use and other nonsense and read the accounts of the musicians themselves, such as books by Robert Wyatt and Eddie Kramer.
Back to Top
SteveG View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Online
Points: 19354
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2017 at 07:01
Originally posted by axeman axeman wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Well, I still don't fully understand the great hype on Jimi Hendrix. I just don't hear the greatness of his guitar playing, from the little I have heard, specially from his studio versions. Later, having heard some live albums, I think I find his playing there is much more interesting. However, I still prefer my prog guitar players.
Hendrix is known, by guitar players, by the feat of making a single guitar sound like two different guitars. He could play lead on the high 3 strings and provide his own rhythm on the low 3. He could hold a bar chord and still vibrato the melodic lead. 

His style was raucous, blues-based rock, so it's more raw and has more slop in it. He was more effect than technical display--except on songs like Little Wing. But he could do things with it that other people tried to match and failed. You have to know how many different finger positions were in one of his signature slide mordants, and how effortlessly they blend together in sound. And yet, you can watch Jimi on tape take a breath from singing and throw effortless fills in

Also, like any ground-breaker, kids picking up the guitar, started copying his technique. And so enough of his innovations are within the toolkit of a standard player these days. It's like watching Citizen Kane and noticing that you don't see anything that modern filmmakers don't do. And that's 100% true. But Well's techniques started to define film-making. (Still plenty of filmmakers these days don't construct mundane scenes from 4 overlays and glass mattes). 
Plus Eric Clapton thought that Hendrix was God, and Pete Townsend claims that he was permanently psychologically damaged after witnessing Hendrix playing in his early London days. If any guitarists should know how good Hendrix was, these two should.
This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
Back to Top
Pelata View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2010
Location: NC-USA
Status: Offline
Points: 357
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2017 at 07:32
I think Syd Barrett is a case of perspective. Surely he connects with people in the modern era, but when he and his music first arrived? I'm sure it blew some minds and more than a few gaskets.
Back to Top
brainstormer View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 20 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 880
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2017 at 21:37
You do always have to ask what did music sound like before this person arrived.

It seems like every very innovative musician always had a background in other arts, as did Barrett.  All the arts are connected, when they're great.  
--
Robert Pearson
Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net
Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com
ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net


Back to Top
SteveG View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Online
Points: 19354
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2017 at 04:11
To get back to the topic of Syd, my subjective impressions are one of an artist, that aside from his innovations and unique guitar playing, is of a person that was immensely likeable. Syd was mercurial, impish and was not trying to disturb you with his music. Yes, Astronomy Domine was scary and clever, but was also scary and fun. Very much like a scary rollercoaster ride. Syd was not trying to leave you scarred for life. His form of psychedelia was unique in this regard and I suggest that's one key reason for his high esteem among his devoted fans.

Edited by SteveG - April 12 2017 at 08:20
Back to Top
Kepler62 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 09 2017
Location: Fort Erie
Status: Offline
Points: 501
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2017 at 05:53
Let's imagine that the remaining members of Pink Floyd threw in the towel after Syd freaked out,  gave up on music because they had crossed the final plateau with Syd and became accountants and upper atmosphere physicists.
Back to Top
Pelata View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2010
Location: NC-USA
Status: Offline
Points: 357
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2017 at 06:10
Originally posted by Kepler62 Kepler62 wrote:

Let's imagine that the remaining members of Pink Floyd threw in the towel after Syd freaked out,  gave up on music because they had crossed the final plateau with Syd and became accountants and upper atmosphere physicists.


Oh god, let's not.
Back to Top
SteveG View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Online
Points: 19354
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2017 at 08:19
Originally posted by Kepler62 Kepler62 wrote:

Let's imagine that the remaining members of Pink Floyd threw in the towel after Syd freaked out,  gave up on music because they had crossed the final plateau with Syd and became accountants and upper atmosphere physicists.
Yeah. And let's also imagine the Beatles throwing in the towel after releasing Love Me Do and working the rest of their lives in a rock quarry. Wacko 
This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
Back to Top
Upbeat Tango Monday View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 10 2015
Location: Buenos Aires
Status: Offline
Points: 1184
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2017 at 17:21
Overrated in Britain, underrated elsewhere
Two random guys agreed to shake hands. Just Because. They felt like it, you know. It was an agreement of sorts...a random agreement.
Back to Top
KingCrInuYasha View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 26 2010
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1281
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2017 at 20:57
Originally posted by Kepler62 Kepler62 wrote:

Let's imagine that the remaining members of Pink Floyd threw in the towel after Syd freaked out,  gave up on music because they had crossed the final plateau with Syd and became accountants and upper atmosphere physicists.


Please no. As much as I love the Syd era, the thought of no Dark Side Of The Moon is too much for me.
He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!
Back to Top
miamiscot View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 23 2014
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 2941
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2017 at 15:25
Yes, I do.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.01
Copyright ©2001-2014 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.426 seconds.

Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.