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Yes/ARW...(really)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivertree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2017 at 02:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twosteves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2017 at 14:08
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Random thought - Squire was Nick Beggs' idol - even before he formed Art Nouveau / Kajagoogoo.
I doubt Beggs would ever step into the shoes of his idol. Haven't heard much from Pomeroy.....
Sherwood fills Squire's shoes in a roundabout (no pun intended) sort of way.
I know Beggs played bass at times for the Genesis revisited stuff - Rutherford's bass isn't exactly easy to play !!

The whole thing is a mess---Howes Yes just doesn't cut it----other than Howe who can still nail it---they are not stars and they are not confident in their playing ---they plod along and it shows----of course ARW has a killer rhythm section and Jon and Rick are still stars----but rabin isn't my cup of tea and seems unwilling to really learn or play the parts-I have no interest in hearing Yes west songs which I think rabin really wants to play---so I gave up with these two Yes's a long time ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kepler62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2017 at 14:39
I stick to the early years. It really started to become a cluster f**k  after Going For The One.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2017 at 14:45
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Random thought - Squire was Nick Beggs' idol - even before he formed Art Nouveau / Kajagoogoo.
I doubt Beggs would ever step into the shoes of his idol. Haven't heard much from Pomeroy.....
Sherwood fills Squire's shoes in a roundabout (no pun intended) sort of way.
I know Beggs played bass at times for the Genesis revisited stuff - Rutherford's bass isn't exactly easy to play !!


After hearing "The Raven that Refused to Sing", and specially the opening song, I can't help but wish it had been Nick Beggs who replaced Squire. And then, Yes should have kept Oliver as the keyboard player, I believe he was doing a much better job than Downes (I did see them both live).

Back in 2012 when we saw GFD Tour, they played Luminol for us as a preview to the new album. It was just brilliant, the song played so well live and yes Beggs was a beast on the bass. My wife loved that song, said it was highlight of the show for her, the jazz lines and bass got her.
She did not believe me when I told her who Beggs played for, she does not know individual names but knows bands and she remembered Kajagoogoo from our HS days.

If you tell her Steven Wilson, she says the "guy who plays barefoot?" LOL


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2017 at 20:57
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Random thought - Squire was Nick Beggs' idol - even before he formed Art Nouveau / Kajagoogoo.
I doubt Beggs would ever step into the shoes of his idol. Haven't heard much from Pomeroy.....
Sherwood fills Squire's shoes in a roundabout (no pun intended) sort of way.
I know Beggs played bass at times for the Genesis revisited stuff - Rutherford's bass isn't exactly easy to play !!


After hearing "The Raven that Refused to Sing", and specially the opening song, I can't help but wish it had been Nick Beggs who replaced Squire. And then, Yes should have kept Oliver as the keyboard player, I believe he was doing a much better job than Downes (I did see them both live).


Back in 2012 when we saw GFD Tour, they played Luminol for us as a preview to the new album. It was just brilliant, the song played so well live and yes Beggs was a beast on the bass. My wife loved that song, said it was highlight of the show for her, the jazz lines and bass got her.
She did not believe me when I told her who Beggs played for, she does not know individual names but knows bands and she remembered Kajagoogoo from our HS days.

If you tell her Steven Wilson, she says the "guy who plays barefoot?" LOL


Steven Wilson plays barefoot? I saw him live for the Raven tour and didn't notice. However, Luminol was included on the DVD for the Grace for Drowning tour (which was filmed at the same theater in Mexico City were I saw him next tour for The Raven), on a 20 or so version. I did hear it before The Raven was released, and actually didn't get it, until the studio version was released and I got it, and just hearing it for the first time I loved it. Then I put on the live version again, and indeed it was a great song.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2017 at 21:01
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

^ Oh yes, Luminol. Beggs is just BRILLIANT !! And indeed, Oliver is getting up there with his Father.
I like Downes playing, but he's probably the 'lesser' of all the Yes keyboardists.


Oh yeah, Downes playes beautifully on his own songs. But if I see Yes live, I expect to hear mostly songs from before Downes time, and there are songs he won't get right... or perhaps it was only the night when I saw them... specially Awaken, he just didn't get it. As I remember it, Oliver did a better job.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2017 at 21:28
Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Random thought - Squire was Nick Beggs' idol - even before he formed Art Nouveau / Kajagoogoo.
I doubt Beggs would ever step into the shoes of his idol. Haven't heard much from Pomeroy.....
Sherwood fills Squire's shoes in a roundabout (no pun intended) sort of way.
I know Beggs played bass at times for the Genesis revisited stuff - Rutherford's bass isn't exactly easy to play !!


The whole thing is a mess---Howes Yes just doesn't cut it----other than Howe who can still nail it---they are not stars and they are not confident in their playing ---they plod along and it shows----of course ARW has a killer rhythm section and Jon and Rick are still stars----but rabin isn't my cup of tea and seems unwilling to really learn or play the parts-I have no interest in hearing Yes west songs which I think rabin really wants to play---so I gave up with these two Yes's a long time ago.


Yeah, the best would be ARW with Steve Howe on guitars. Or just the band as they played Roundabout, with Geddy Lee on bass (and add him on additional vocals too), but it became very obvious that they won't work together. A shame really, since we need both Howe, and Anderson/Wakeman on the same line-up to get the whole picture. As for ARW and Rabin era songs, the one song I would really love to hear with this line-up seems to have been ignored for the live set, which is Endless Dream (the one song that showed that Yes-West could really do beautiful prog). Also, ARW should come up with some of the Living Tree songs, some of which sounded nice to me, but sounded like they really needed the rest of the band to really shine, and this might have been the perfect oportunity to get them right. However, I'm hoping ARW will actually give us the album we needed when Heaven and Earth was released, though my hopes would be on Wakeman really giving writing input into the band, for he's the one I have better hopes for really coming with great new music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uduwudu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2017 at 04:48
I suppose the defining moment will be the Yes/ War album. Much as I enjoy Rabin and his contributions to the Yes canon I would prefer Steve Howe to add his magic to Yes music.

It's a case of money though. Rights to name, logo mean a lot of cash.

It's been interesting seeing so many people content that there will be two Yeses.

Anderson, Wakeman, Howe...

Thing is watching Alan White at the RRHOF and he seems a bit, well, tired. Carl Palmer's going great guns and maybe he should be on drums.

I saw Nick Beggs playing bass and stick for John Paul Jones. A bass player' bass player... yeah, he's fine. Things is it depends on the bass identity with Yes. Signature sound and style was Squire's contribution, along with the intricacy of course. Plenty of bass hot shots around who can do the bass lines... but I would be a bit concerned at the bass blandness ABWH had, being reproduced. Even with Tony Levin and Jeff Berlin on board the mix they had - studio and live - was anonymous at best and detracted from the overall experience. Sort of lite Yes.

But the grudges, bad feeling, game playing management will make sure the next album will probably be Heaven And Earth 2.

At least Tony Kaye managed to get through the HOF thing with appropriate dignity.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2017 at 21:55
Yeah, I would love Carl Palmer on Yes now, since I too have had the impression Alan has sounded somewhat tired for some time. Actually, Palmer should have done the job these past months that Alan was unavailable. However, I now think that the best version of Yes we could get, if only they would get past their grudges, would be Anderson, Howe, Wakeman, Geddy Lee, and Carl Palmer. And I guess that one wouldn't have the problem of bass lite or anything. About ABWH, I guess the bass problem was not so much the inability of Tony Levin doing the bass part at the level of Squire (though I do prefer Squire as a bass player), but more that he was a session musician and not part of the band, and so it feels his contributions were just to fill the bass, and not be creative about it. As for the live recording I heard with Tony on ABWH, he did sound with more personality than the one with Jeff Berlin. I could hear a distinctive tone, different to the one of Squire.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twosteves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2017 at 23:31
Yes were the best when they were 5 of the best in the world----they only let the best in---once they didn't seek out the best and let people in for political money or friendship reasons---the band goes downhill----I just don't think either band sounds great anymore---the chemistry of 5 great musicians is missing. And I know if you hypnotized Jon Anderson ---he'd say he wished Howe was in the band---he may like rabin as a person but Howe is his musical soul mate and he's left rabin behind a few times to play with Howe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthSideoftheSky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2017 at 08:29

Yes is bigger than any one person. Having new people coming in and out of the band is what has kept them alive for all this time. New constellations brings new perspectives. 

The best thing is that at least until Benoit David they have let new members be themselves and bring their own special identities to the band. Examples: Steve Howe is not a Peter Banks clone, Rick Wakeman does not imitate a Tony Kaye, Alan White is not a copy of Bill Bruford, etc. Sadly, with Benoit David and Jon Davison they have broken this tradition and hired people who sound as similar as possible to Jon Anderson.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2017 at 21:28
Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:

Yes were the best when they were 5 of the best in the world----they only let the best in---once they didn't seek out the best and let people in for political money or friendship reasons---the band goes downhill----I just don't think either band sounds great anymore---the chemistry of 5 great musicians is missing. And I know if you hypnotized Jon Anderson ---he'd say he wished Howe was in the band---he may like rabin as a person but Howe is his musical soul mate and he's left rabin behind a few times to play with Howe.


Oh yes, I agree with this. I guess it's since they let The Buggles in for the first time that they downgraded their aspirations for musicians. And then Trevor Rabin himself. They should always seek the best, otherwise they are not Yes. But even more important, they should seek the best songwrites they could find, since the old men seem to have run out of ideas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthSideoftheSky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2017 at 07:04

Everyone who has been in Yes are excellent musicians and among the best at what they do. 

Rabin is an excellent guitarist and a good singer (though his lyrics are sometimes quite banal).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odinalcatraz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2017 at 13:41
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:


By all accounts ARW is a much better band than the other Yes, maybe they'll join up and do "Union 2".


Watch you tube concerts--rabin butchers genius Howe's parts on most songs---and the rearrangement of an amazing song like Awaken is just horrible---although Jon Rick and rhythm section is first rate compared to Howes Yes--- I will probably pass on both versions---a curse on both your housesLOL

The band of peace an love should practice what they preach.Angry


I did listen to Awaken on Youtube, and as you say, I felt Rabin butchered the guitar parts. He is suposed to be trying to play things as he would have recorded them originally, on his own style or whatever, instead of trying to replicate Howe's playing. Either way, Howe is much better. Still, if I get the chance to see either version of Yes live, I would choose ARW. Perhaps Rabin will get lured into his film scores again, and needing a new guitar player, if Anderson and Wakeman still can't resolve their problems with Howe, they I think they should try and get to work with Colin Tench. And if the other Yes were to part ways with Downes, then they should get the guy from Iamthemorning.

Good Lord! Embarrassed
Saw this just by luck. Thank you Dell!
I am pretty much in awe of Rabin tho'. He can be naughty I guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2017 at 20:48
Originally posted by odinalcatraz odinalcatraz wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:


By all accounts ARW is a much better band than the other Yes, maybe they'll join up and do "Union 2".


Watch you tube concerts--rabin butchers genius Howe's parts on most songs---and the rearrangement of an amazing song like Awaken is just horrible---although Jon Rick and rhythm section is first rate compared to Howes Yes--- I will probably pass on both versions---a curse on both your housesLOL

The band of peace an love should practice what they preach.Angry


I did listen to Awaken on Youtube, and as you say, I felt Rabin butchered the guitar parts. He is suposed to be trying to play things as he would have recorded them originally, on his own style or whatever, instead of trying to replicate Howe's playing. Either way, Howe is much better. Still, if I get the chance to see either version of Yes live, I would choose ARW. Perhaps Rabin will get lured into his film scores again, and needing a new guitar player, if Anderson and Wakeman still can't resolve their problems with Howe, they I think they should try and get to work with Colin Tench. And if the other Yes were to part ways with Downes, then they should get the guy from Iamthemorning.


Good Lord! Embarrassed
Saw this just by luck. Thank you Dell!
I am pretty much in awe of Rabin tho'. He can be naughty I guess.


You should just look for live videos of AWR yourself though, you might not agree with my judgement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twosteves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2017 at 22:04
Originally posted by SouthSideoftheSky SouthSideoftheSky wrote:


Everyone who has been in Yes are excellent musicians and among the best at what they do. 

Rabin is an excellent guitarist and a good singer (though his lyrics are sometimes quite banal).


Glad you think so but I don't agree---lot's of mediocrity in Yes over the years far from the best---guys with no real confidence or gravitas---Hackett knows how to assemble excellent musicians---Yes not so much---
Rabin did 4 albums with Yes----they are ok I guess but I rarely listen to them---Howes work is landmark prog---inspired many players---no one looks to 90125 or Big Gen or Talk for how to do excellent prog music--so it matters who is in Yes as much as I used to want to believe it didn't---and I did try but have given up
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