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DDPascalDD 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: August 06 2015 Location: The Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 856 |
 Posted: April 27 2017 at 07:40 |
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^Not sure what you mean. I meant that Red has a lot of qualities and is much more enjoyable for me and beyond that still is renewing.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20445 |
Posted: April 27 2017 at 09:19 |
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I'm not sure either. Just a bad attempt at humor.
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14082 |
Posted: April 27 2017 at 11:54 |
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They're both great. Red speaks more to me personally so I'd take that if I could only take one, but as a critic I'd probably rate Court just as highly.
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Larkstongue41
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 07 2015 Location: Eastern Canada Status: Offline Points: 1360 |
Posted: April 27 2017 at 12:23 |
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I have to disagree. Starless is one of the least "original" Crimson song. The first half carries a similar mood and follows the same pattern as Exiles and the recurring guitar parts (or violin, depending on the version you listen to) are taken directly from Exiles' solo at the end. The heavy middle section sounds like it belongs to the Larks suite and the sublime ending is built the same way as the climax of Islands although it is much more intense. Don't get me wrong, I love Starless. It is the song that officially got me into KC a few years back but their catalogue has much more to offer.
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"Larks' tongues. Wrens' livers. Chaffinch brains. Jaguars' earlobes. Wolf nipple chips. Get 'em while they're hot. They're lovely. Dromedary pretzels, only half a denar."
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Magnum Vaeltaja
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 01 2015 Location: Out East Status: Offline Points: 6777 |
Posted: April 27 2017 at 12:42 |
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Not to mention the fact that the main melody at the start sounds reworked from the Bolero passage of Lizard. If anything, I think that part of what makes Starless so powerful is that it calls back to all the emotional King Crimson moments from the past few years in a sort of nostalgic send-off.
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when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents
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Dopeydoc
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 05 2016 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 1366 |
Posted: April 27 2017 at 15:45 |
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Both are masterpieces. In the court is great to show newbies what prog is about and can be. Red creates just an incredible atmosphere that I love to play again and again for myself...
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46827 |
Posted: April 27 2017 at 16:00 |
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you have to be kidding....
no it isn't .. and Red isn't even in the same zip code as Court. I can understand liking it more.. but to think it was better seems to just a sign of knowing zippo about the genre.. or music. |
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DDPascalDD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 06 2015 Location: The Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 856 |
Posted: April 27 2017 at 16:46 |
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Historical value is for some of higher priority than others I guess (and would prefer to say it that way instead)
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maryes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 16 2009 Location: rio de janeiro Status: Offline Points: 990 |
Posted: April 27 2017 at 18:39 |
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Same !
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AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 16119 |
Posted: April 27 2017 at 19:25 |
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I'm probably in the minority here but imo LTIA is better than both of them. :) After that probably Red. I actually still can't decide between Poseidon or Court. Maybe Court by a tiny bit.
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Tapfret
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 12 2007 Location: Bryant, Wa Status: Offline Points: 8571 |
Posted: April 27 2017 at 20:33 |
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Itchy never really worked for me. For Red I really rediscovered it's depth after Wetton's death.
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12581 |
Posted: April 27 2017 at 21:10 |
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Oh, I'm of the more boring opinion that "In the Wake of Poseidon" is a lesser quality rehash of "Court". Schizoid Man Vs Pictures of a City, I like the first and don't care for the second. I talk to the Wind Vs Cadence and Cascade... the first is at least nice, and the second is just bland... plus, with a far worse singer. Epitaph and Court Vs In the Wake... well all three are great, but I go with them in just the same order I wrote them. I guess Devil's Triangle is also sort of counterpart to Court (plus some of Moonchild)... I really prefer Court over it, though it is better than the long noodling section of Moonchild). Cat Food is nice, mostly because of Tippet's wonderful piano, but I'd rather hear him on other songs, as (if I remember correctly) Prince Rupert Awakes and Formentera Lady. And the Peace things are barely audible, so I don't even count them. |
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hieronymous
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 27 2012 Location: Oakland, CA Status: Offline Points: 308 |
Posted: April 27 2017 at 22:13 |
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They're different - In the Court of the Crimson King was a pivotal moment in time - doesn't Robert Fripp talk about a mysterious extra member? Wait, maybe that's Black Sabbath - I did find Fripp saying though that "As I heard it expressed later and even now, it was as if the music took over and took the musicians into its confidence... That is by no means the last time I felt in that position somewhere between heaven and earth – but that was the first time." (Here: http://ultimateclassicrock.com/king-crimson-crimson-king/) There's something magical about this album - admittedly, the title track and 20th Century Schizoid Man are the only tracks that I love, but those are enough! In the context of music history, when you had to get up and flip the record half way through and could sit and stare at this piece of gatefold art - the convenience of digital can sometimes lead us astray to only cherry pick certain tracks and feel like we can use that as part of our judgement.
Red is so different than any previous Crimson - the compositions that feature just the trio of Fripp/Wetton/Bruford - nothing like that before, and with lots of overdubbing side 1. Starless is just a masterpiece - I gave a copy of Red to a friend about 20 years ago, he said he was listening to it on a road trip from Berkeley to Arizona and the climax of Starless happened just as he was coming over a rise in the last leg of his trip with the city opening up in front of him in the morning - you don't even have to have that experience but that's what it sounds like! Personally of the two, Red is my favorite, but my favorite Crimson album is USA - so there!
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Larkstongue41
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 07 2015 Location: Eastern Canada Status: Offline Points: 1360 |
Posted: April 28 2017 at 13:29 |
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^ Fripp did speak on a few occasions of an "obscure entity" that directed KC's musical direction. He was into the occult and mysticism a lot for a quite a long period of time starting before Red was released. Discipline was initially intended to be released under a different name than King Crimson but during the studio sessions Fripp realized the music "was Crimson" and decided to use his old band name.
Fun fact: The logo on the cover of Discipline was taken from an illustration made by George Gurdjieff, an Armenian mystic. The logo represents what Gurdjieff refers to as the "Fourth Way", a method he conceived to reach spiritual awakening. Edited by Larkstongue41 - April 28 2017 at 13:34 |
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"Larks' tongues. Wrens' livers. Chaffinch brains. Jaguars' earlobes. Wolf nipple chips. Get 'em while they're hot. They're lovely. Dromedary pretzels, only half a denar."
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20451 |
Posted: April 28 2017 at 14:20 |
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Better...?
That's a tough call for me......I like them both a great deal... indeed they are my two favorite KC albums. I'll pick Court, but only because it was the first one to knock me over.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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grantman
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 03 2015 Location: CANADA Status: Offline Points: 732 |
Posted: April 29 2017 at 09:59 |
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in court of the crimson king of course ,red is not even close both good albums but red is so different in sound and texture
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aglasshouse
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 27 2014 Location: riding the MOAB Status: Offline Points: 1505 |
Posted: April 29 2017 at 11:46 |
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Absolutely. 1974 was the best year for King Crimson and the only year I didn't find them obnoxious.
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http://fryingpanmedia.com
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: April 29 2017 at 12:04 |
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Starless is better than anything recorded on Court
But ITCOTCK is the album that defined Symphonic, it's 100% solid. I go with the debut Iván
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Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2012 Location: here Status: Offline Points: 8856 |
Posted: April 29 2017 at 12:20 |
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Yep. Absolutely. No question.
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12581 |
Posted: April 29 2017 at 20:10 |
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Actually, I would have a hard time choosing between Starless and Epitaph. Besides, I much prefer the original live versions of Starless... I heard them first, and I just feel the main melody should be played with a violin. |
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Is Red Better Than In The Court?
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DDPascalDD wrote:
