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New Albums Devaluing a Band's History |
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freyacat ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February 17 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 137 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: May 04 2017 at 22:55 |
Here is a question to ponder:
If you are a fan of one of the classic prog-rock greats, like Yes, ELP, King Crimson, or Genesis, one of the bands who were around in the 70's, and that band releases a new album which (almost inevitably) fails to recapture the glory of their peak years, does it devalue their earlier accomplishments in your view? Does a bad new album make the earlier ones seem less good? |
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sad creature nailed upon the coloured door of time
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Hrychu ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 03 2013 Location: poland? Status: Offline Points: 292 |
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There are albums like Sun by Tai Phong or Danger World by Anyone's Daughter, however in my opinion the fact that they're crap makes the earlier albums shine even more.
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ExittheLemming ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: October 19 2007 Location: A Land Mass Status: Offline Points: 9078 |
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I've never really understood the logic behind the idea that a really sh*t album e.g. In the Hot Seat can somehow make Tarkus, Pictures at an Exhibition, Trilogy or Brain Salad Surgery less enjoyable to listen to. It makes a band's best work MORE enjoyable to listen to surely? All creative associations have artistic peaks (usually closer to their inception) and then gradually diminish over time. If a band still sound exactly the same 20 years hence they clearly haven't developed, grown or learned anything musically in the interim (or they're AC/DC?....) ![]() |
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37331 |
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I agree with Iain. More than that, the whole idea reflects pretty poorly on anyone so fickle and shallow.
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"You know what uranium is, right?
It’s this thing called nuclear weapons. And other things. Like lots of things are done with uranium. Including some bad things. But nobody talks about that." |
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Aussie-Byrd-Brother ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Rock Progressivo Italiano Team Joined: October 12 2011 Location: Melb, Australia Status: Offline Points: 7459 |
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No, that's a completely absurd question. If you find an underwhelming new album from a band you love (hey, we've all been there!), it would be completely screwy to think `Hmmm, this is no good, perhaps I've been wrong about this group the whole time...out the window they ALL go!!'
![]() If anything, you race back to the previous albums to simply remind yourself what made them special to you in the first place. |
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uduwudu ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: July 17 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2118 |
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This is a very similar idea to the devoted fan who worships, adores, is total nuts about said group and their records. They put out an album which said devotee finds is other than what is expected - it "stinks, sucks" etc. Said fan stop listening to band's output thereafter. Devotee is not so devoted.
There are many like that and likely to miss out on some good stuff. This is why when someone says something stinks, sucks etc I would give (more) value to such a view if they gave some idea what, why, some depth, just a little bit. Actually being devoted is a bit daft (but a great way of winding some people up). The extent of business is they record, release the latest, tour maybe. You like the release, you buy (or vice versa), you see the gig. That's it. is it not? Underwhelming albums... well, there are a few here and there but no, how can CTTE etc be less of an album merely because a later release say... Heaven And Earth was not quite in the league expected. Those of this view may find their worshipful devotion Of King Jon 1 reinforced while their views of Prince Jon the Younger have been proportionally reduced. |
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chopper ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 12790 |
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No of course not. Every band has a peak (although that peak will differ according to one's taste) and therefore by definition they must have some "worse" albums, but in no way do they devalue the peak albums.
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Jeffro ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March 29 2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 965 |
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It doesn't diminish what they did previously but it does make me sad that it isn't as good as the good stuff.
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chopper ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 12790 |
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But every band that has made more than a couple of albums has good stuff and not so good stuff. It's not a reason to be sad, even Kate Bush has made some duffers.
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Kepler62 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February 09 2017 Location: Fort Erie Status: Offline Points: 501 |
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Well, I'll put it this way. I stopped listening to Genesis after And Then There Were Three.To this day I have a problem with the earlier material and don't even listen to it that much. Funny thing is that with Yes I manage to ignore anything after Drama with no side effects when listening to the earlier material. I'll never get sick of Yessongs. I went through a phase where I couldn't listen to TFTO because I thought that Wakeman had gone for good. I even looked at Relayer( which I love ) as an album by a different band for a while because of Moraz. ELP has a limited amount of first rate material so I can ignore In The Hot Seat and still enjoy the earlier material without having to go and see my psychiatrist.
Edited by Kepler62 - May 05 2017 at 05:55 |
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WeepingElf ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 18 2013 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 361 |
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Nope. |
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... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
"What does Elvish rock music sound like?" - "Yes." |
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Nogbad_The_Bad ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() RIO/Avant/Zeuhl Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 7334 |
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All it defines for me is the point at which I get off that particular train. If anything it makes me more thankful for the earlier stuff.
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Ian
Anyone who thinks Kansas is Prog get out of the room - Adolf Hitler ![]() |
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Manuel ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March 09 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2464 |
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I don't think so. The attention towards the band might diminish, but that does not affect the good music from previous albums. Does "Close to the Edge" is affected because of "Heaven and Earth"? Absolutely no. Does Genesis 80's output outshines the classic albums of the 70's? No. The list could go on and on, but the answer will be the same.
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Logan ![]() Forum & Site Admin Group ![]() ![]() Forum Moderator Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Utopia Status: Offline Points: 15242 |
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It does not, and I can't think even think of a decent counterargument.
Edited by Logan - May 05 2017 at 08:34 |
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"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don’t alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit the views" (Doctor Who - The Face of Evil, Jan 22, 1977).
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Catcher10 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 10522 |
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It's like the guy (on another thread) who supposedly dumped his whole Rush catalog because of one song.....Completely mental thought and actions.
If this were the case then every band's history would have to change because, every band has some krapp they released. History is history, you cannot change that.
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Hercules ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: June 14 2007 Location: Near York UK Status: Offline Points: 3892 |
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Re the animation on your posts:
I do find it slightly amusing that Vyvyan from Scumbag College was in my house at school! I was head of house and he was a third year. He was a boring little sod then. |
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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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Atavachron ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 57135 |
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No, but it does cause one to reflect on how & why art, inspiration, and work manifests itself and inevitably changes. Is each artist allotted a finite amount of good ideas? Does the brain slow in generating creative new things? Does the body and spirit crave different sustenance as one ages? Does originality require a certain measure of lunacy, and how important is a fresh direction versus sticking with what works?
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Ivan_Melgar_M ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Symphonic Prog Specialist Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19373 |
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No, I just don't buy it. I have made my mind to believe that Genesis split after W&W
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 05 2017 at 17:13 |
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Thatfabulousalien ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 27 2016 Location: Aussie/NZ Status: Offline Points: 1409 |
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No it doesn't effect the quality of the older stuff you so dearly love but it sure can change your perception of that said band/musician
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Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.
https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325 |
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Erwaco ![]() Forum Newbie ![]() ![]() Joined: April 03 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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I don't think it is any different than the band putting out an album during their heyday that wasn't as good as their previous releases.
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erwaco
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