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In the Wake of Poseidon: Underrated?

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Cosmiclawnmower View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cosmiclawnmower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2017 at 15:16
I don't really accept the concept of 'over-rated' or 'under-rated'; its all subjective in my view. My opinion is that I enjoy listening to them both equally; things had changed a lot (technology wise and within the band) between 1969 and 1970 which brings a very different vibe to both records yet they work very well as companion pieces.. Although ITCOTCK has the most iconic cover, I adore the cover art on Poseidon along with the gorgeous texturing of the original vinyl copy. I also just want to mention the Mac Donald and Giles lp, particularly side one, which almost links the two lps though it has a more 'Traffic' and less 'Crimson' vibe. A lovely lp though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boojieboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2017 at 17:53
ItWoP has always seemed a bit more consistent and listenable over the debut. Side 1 is especially strong (first 4 tracks). Both have their weaker tracks, IMHO (the drum noodling in Moonchild, the weirdness of The Devil's Triangle).

Underrated? Depends on who's rating it and who's the listener.


Edited by Boojieboy - July 08 2017 at 20:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2017 at 18:07
Originally posted by uduwudu uduwudu wrote:



Some criticisms are a bit odd. Pictures Of A City sounds nothing like 21st C Schizoid Man (can't figure where people get this idea and temporarily conclude they are overly influenced by some critic of the build 'em up knock 'em down fraternity).

Interesting comments!  I just saw Crim in concert (Chicago Theater, review posted) and the 8 piece band did "Pictures of a City" during a set, and "Schizoid Man" as an encore piece!  

I think the two works are only tangentially similar, and it is very thrilling to hear "Pictures" live, as it is a rare tune to catch.  They played it in Chicago in their 2014 and 2017 shows.  

Much of Poseidon I can take or leave, but the title track and Pictures are fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2017 at 02:10
Under-rated is obviously related to its older brother ITOTCK


First, ITWOP is a very strange album, and not really a Fripp album (neither was ITCOTCK) as Fripp didn't write any of the original tracks, except for the Peace thingies (where Sinfield can be cŕnsidered a totally equal songwriter partner) and some arrangements and guitar parts on the debut's t/t, which landed him a writing credits.

The A-side of Poseidon is very strangely similar to Court's A-side

Schizoid = Pictures
Wind = Cadence
Poseidon = Epitath or Court (pick either)

Not that it's bad (I'm not saying that they're total clones, but the repitition cannot be anything but intentional ) but nothing new under the sun (unlike the debut, which was a total revolution in music)

On the flipside , outside the Peace thingies, Cat Food is a Lake/McD composition, and TBH, the only really new thing on the album compared to the debut album. And it is so because of Tippett's piano, that it sounds so different.
As for the Holtz Devil's Triangle, it's a rearrangement of a classical thing, and can be considered a cover....


Sooooooooooooo, what's new on Poseidon? Cat Food (5 mins) and those Peace thingies (which I can personally do without), which add up to 4 mins.

Isn't that a little few to be considered as good as Lizard or Court?Confused

Actually, come to think of it, Poseidon might actually be over-rated by most progheads LOL


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2017 at 10:32
Is Poseidon underrated? No, it simply is not as good or important as the album it followed.
And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kepler62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2017 at 13:20
Who is the collective entity that rates things? Against what is it rated? Why don't people just listen to music anymore rather than  worrying about how it "rates". Who the f**k cares how something "rates". Doesn't anybody have a mind of their own ? Every KC album is different in some essential way. The first album they had with the same previous lineup was Beat and that was different from the previous one and so on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barbu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2017 at 13:30
It's crap compared to the début...read that somewhere, must be true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2017 at 13:34
I sometimes go back and forth between preferring the original line up(and the one that did this one)and the Bruford Wetton line up. I think I prefer both equally. In some ways this line up is more under rated. I think they got really weird after Poseidon although there is some very weird stuff on here too(well Devils Triangle is anyway).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2017 at 21:09
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Under-rated is obviously related to its older brother ITOTCK


First, ITWOP is a very strange album, and not really a Fripp album (neither was ITCOTCK) as Fripp didn't write any of the original tracks, except for the Peace thingies (where Sinfield can be cŕnsidered a totally equal songwriter partner) and some arrangements and guitar parts on the debut's t/t, which landed him a writing credits.

The A-side of Poseidon is very strangely similar to Court's A-side

Schizoid = Pictures
Wind = Cadence
Poseidon = Epitath or Court (pick either)

Not that it's bad (I'm not saying that they're total clones, but the repitition cannot be anything but intentional ) but nothing new under the sun (unlike the debut, which was a total revolution in music)

On the flipside , outside the Peace thingies, Cat Food is a Lake/McD composition, and TBH, the only really new thing on the album compared to the debut album. And it is so because of Tippett's piano, that it sounds so different.
As for the Holtz Devil's Triangle, it's a rearrangement of a classical thing, and can be considered a cover....


Sooooooooooooo, what's new on Poseidon? Cat Food (5 mins) and those Peace thingies (which I can personally do without), which add up to 4 mins.

Isn't that a little few to be considered as good as Lizard or Court?Confused

Actually, come to think of it, Poseidon might actually be over-rated by most progheads LOL




Yeah, but for me the problem is not so much that much of the album copies the previous one, but rather that the songs are essentially not as good. I really don't care for the first two songs, (Pictures and Cadence), and even though I do like Poseidon a lot, I still think Epitaph, and perhas Court too, are better. Still, this 3 songs make a very nice trio that Crimson wouldn't repeat again (I guess the closest would be the studio version of Starless, but then again it goes it's own way on the second half, and Wetton is no Greg Lake).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2017 at 21:12
Originally posted by Kepler62 Kepler62 wrote:

Who is the collective entity that rates things? Against what is it rated? Why don't people just listen to music anymore rather than  worrying about how it "rates". Who the f**k cares how something "rates". Doesn't anybody have a mind of their own ? Every KC album is different in some essential way. The first album they had with the same previous lineup was Beat and that was different from the previous one and so on.


But if we wer not to rate the music we like (or don't like), and discuss about it and which ones we like better, then what's the point of being in the forum. The fact that we discuss such things doesn't mean that we don't have a mind of our own, but that we want to express it and read what others think about the same things.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr prog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2017 at 03:08
What kind of progger doesn't like cadence and pictures. A stupid one lol
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2017 at 05:25
Originally posted by Barbu Barbu wrote:

It's crap compared to the début...read that somewhere, must be true.
LOL rof!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2017 at 05:28
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Is Poseidon underrated? No, it simply is not as good or important as the album it followed.
Yup, it's simply not as good or important as Lizard. No, that's not it.  Islands then? No. Lark's Tongue? Maybe yes. Maybe no. Starless? Nah, that's not it...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2017 at 21:34
Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

What kind of progger doesn't like cadence and pictures. A stupid one lol


I think you should take care at who you call stupid. Which should be at nobody at all. But not likind Pictures and Cadence doesn't make me stupid, it just means my tastes are different. I Talk to the Wind isn't among my favourites from the previous one either, but I find Cadence evern more dull, specially because of the notably weaker vocals. And Pictures just sounds noisy, while I do find Schizoid Man much more enjoyable. I won't insult you for liking them, you just have a different taste.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote felonafan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2017 at 08:52
To my opinion, this album is really underrated. For me, it is better than debut disc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stereolab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2017 at 11:51
Averages out to mediocre... about half very good to excellent, half essentially unlistenable (including the rubbish "Cat Food" -- I don't know what people see in this.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2017 at 20:26
Originally posted by Stereolab Stereolab wrote:

Averages out to mediocre... about half very good to excellent, half essentially unlistenable (including the rubbish "Cat Food" -- I don't know what people see in this.)


I guess it's mostly Keith Tippet's jazzy piano. That's what took my attention at first. I did like the song... a bit. Sort of I like certain aspects of it and not so much for other ones. However, I have grown sort of tired of it and got it out of my King Crimson lists.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2017 at 21:17
To me it sounds like leftover tracks from the previous album's sessions. I like it a lot but it lacks that something special that makes it have its own identity unlike "Court" "Lizard" "Red" and pretty much everything that followed. For me it's the weakest of the early albums but still pretty good and a must have in my collection. To be fair it has grown on me more as i've listened to it but there are too many riffs that are recycled from "Court"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2017 at 04:08
I love it, end to end. It has a similar feel to the debut, but I don't think it's a step down in quality, although I can understand Fripp wanting a change of direction and feel afterwards. A third album in that vein may have bene pushing it.

As for Cat Food. I love that track.

Edited by Blacksword - July 17 2017 at 05:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2017 at 05:23
I've been listening to a lot of KC over the last week, revisiting everything from Lizard to Beat. I don't think they ever recorded a bad album. Some are better tha others obviously, but they don't have an "Invisible Touch" in their catalogue, or a "Union" or "Love Beach" for that matter.

They are consistently good. The trio of 80's albums are possibly their worst, and even they score three stars each IMO.
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