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siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2017 at 08:50
Originally posted by Tillerman88 Tillerman88 wrote:

^Sorry man but unusual and strange instruments are an ever present part of musical history, as long as experimental music has always existed as well.... I don't see either any correlation with the thread subject (or the WP article for that matter)

My point is that the trend for creating homemade instruments is increasing which has a direct and proportionate effect on existing sales of instruments such as electric guitars. I live in an area where this is a serious phenomona where i have seen more people play the Swiss invented Hang than i have a brand spanking new Gibson. People are tired of the past and expanding their creativity. Why settle for someone else's idea of an instrument when you can make your own. I live in a highly innovative part of the planet so i see the trends unfolding around me.

I also forgot to mention that acoustic guitar is eclipsing the electric since a need for nomadic flexibility is also the growing trend. Who wants to be burdened by having to find power sources. However the idea of the electric guitar completely disappearing seems far-fetched since metal, progressive rock, indie rock and countless other genres still use it

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2017 at 09:07
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

OK you've now moved on from 'real musician' to the all encompassing 'musician=' Being able to improvise on your chosen instrument is not some sort of litmus test of being a 'real musician'. Many of the finest orchestral players, composers and songwriters probably couldn't improvise to save themselves but the latter two groups wrote the sorts of 'jazz and rock standards' over which those who can, do. Are these people not real musicians?


Nope.

The finest orchestral players - take their sheet music away, most can't play Baa Baa Black Sheep. 

Been there. Seen it. Took ten years to deprogram myself. ;-)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2017 at 09:09
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by Tillerman88 Tillerman88 wrote:

^Sorry man but unusual and strange instruments are an ever present part of musical history, as long as experimental music has always existed as well.... I don't see either any correlation with the thread subject (or the WP article for that matter)

My point is that the trend for creating homemade instruments is increasing which has a direct and proportionate effect on existing sales of instruments such as electric guitars. I live in an area where this is a serious phenomona where i have seen more people play the Swiss invented Hang than i have a brand spanking new Gibson. People are tired of the past and expanding their creativity. Why settle for someone else's idea of an instrument when you can make your own. I live in a highly innovative part of the planet so i see the trends unfolding around me.

I also forgot to mention that acoustic guitar is eclipsing the electric since a need for nomadic flexibility is also the growing trend. Who wants to be burdened by having to find power sources. However the idea of the electric guitar completely disappearing seems far-fetched since metal, progressive rock, indie rock and countless other genres still use it


C'mon, show us some of these DIY instruments !!!!! ;-)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2017 at 09:12
Silly Puppy, I was looking at HAPI drums about 15 -20 years ago. Hardly new, hardly DIY and VERY expensive, file under ripoff.

I don't see marching hordes of HAPI drum players everywhere. The only thing "new" about that is that it's "new" to you. 

Cigar box guitars next ?

Not new, my friend. Not by a long way. AND I don't see any cigar box guitar orchestras hereabouts. 

Glad you've researched all this. In about 1995, was that ? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2017 at 09:24
^ did i say it was new? 
i said it was a growing trend
growing trend means prices come down

QUOTE C'mon, show us some of these DIY instruments !!!!! ;-)

i just posted two links

you seem hostile to anything i have to add so later gator. cheers

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2017 at 09:54
Hostile ? No, amused that something well known from 20 years back which wasn't DIY in the first place is being used to illustrate a point which doesn't exist. ;-)

You've found a page of strange instruments on Facebook, congratulations. In the 1920's, there were a number of strange instruments such as the double belled euphonium, the double bell "jazzophone" trumpet, the amplified violin. These were designed to raise the volume of solo instruments so that they could be heard over a dance band.

So originally was the electric guitar. If you have a look at the early Rickenbacker "frying pans". 

Nothing is new about strange and unusual instruments. They've always been there, they always will be - I can remember the original STEP and Flyte guitars coming out, that's the nature of musical instruments. I've played wind synths and there's been some take up of ethnic percussion - I've got a pair of doumbeks as well. I do not see everyone throwing away conventional instruments and buying, say, Moroccan qraqebs or nose flutes en masse, let alone MAKING them themselves. 

Can you not accept that you are just BONG wrong ??????? 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2017 at 09:59
As for the Hang, I'd love to see the average man in the street make a tuned drum. I'm not expecting the garages of the UK to ring with the sound of hammering any time soon. Neither, I suppose, is anyone anywhere else. 

The price of DIY instruments don't come down with a "growing trend" either, unless so many people are hammering out tuned drums in their basements that the price of steel goes down. Which seems a bit unlikely. 

I live in a highly inventive part of the planet, I just get about 5000 quarter watt resistors, 2000 electrolytic capacitors, 1000 BC547 transistors and ten pounds of solder and make my own synthesizer.

Trouble is, when I go around to the neighbours to borrow some vactrol gates, op amp chips and panel mount potentiometers, they don't seem to have any. As they're not making one. Probably about two people in the county are. Now, a 1970's modular synth is a bit more complex than, say, tunable percussion, but I don't see anyone making tunable percussion, either. They tend to go off and buy it. There are several shops which sell unusual percussion over here. They're all tiny and struggle to make ends meet. 

Sorry, Silly Puppy, if I'm coming across as agressive. I'm honestly not trying to be. I am just amazed behind the logic of the suggestion. 

Edited by Davesax1965 - July 02 2017 at 10:06
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2017 at 10:05
^ You totally miss all the points i make and try to make them an argument. Take them all or leave them. Seems like you've already dismissed them. I have better things to do than argue to you about things i experience on a daily basis. Cheers

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2017 at 10:07
Off you go, then, the Hang drum orchestra calls !!!! ;-)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2017 at 10:08
^Cigar box guitars?? oh ohoh... whatever those guitars may sound they sure are in perfect syntony with today's contemporary architecture.....stone cold geometric forms giving it an avant-garde looking .....:O
The overwhelming amount of information on a daily basis restrains people from rewinding the news record archives to refresh their memories...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2017 at 13:47
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Off you go, then, the Hang drum orchestra calls !!!! ;-)


Like it or not this and other DIY instruments are eclipsing the role of the electric guitar. Homemade instruments are only a part of the equation. Trends towards other stringed instruments has become quitem popular. The banjo and sitar have seen an explosive rise in popularity.

I live in the San Francisco Bay area and have my pulse in sync with the musical trends. I have friends in the music industry and have met more indie musicians than trump supporters in Mississippi. All roads lead to the same conclusion.

Electric guitar isn't cool any more. When I hear the youth of today blasting music, it's never guitar oriented rock but rather hip hop or electronica. Hip hop has usurped the rock word for lyrical relevance in the 21st century and electronic music is the new hip way of escapism. Many youth deem rock and many forms of guitar music too orthodox and established as well as musicians having taken the mastery to the logical conclusions.

Add the fact that guitar sounds can be manufactured on synthesizers and it's really not a surprise that the electric guitar has seen a decline. It seems that only progressive rock, country and metal are keeping it alive but even metal bands like Brain Tentacles and Aluk Todolo are nixing guitar and replacing it with other instruments.

Now if you want to debate these things in an intelligent manner I'm all ears but if you're simply gonna tell me I don't know what I'm talking about with no counter evidence than I find you simply to be a disgruntled rocker who is bitter about how the current musical world has become. Personally I love newer music and welcome the shake up of the old school formulas

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2017 at 14:52
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Electric guitar isn't cool any more. When I hear the youth of today blasting music, it's never guitar oriented rock but rather hip hop or electronica. Hip hop has usurped the rock word for lyrical relevance in the 21st century and electronic music is the new hip way of escapism. Many youth deem rock and many forms of guitar music too orthodox and established as well as musicians having taken the mastery to the logical conclusions.

^LOL ..... Electric guitar and Rock are very well and will keep alive everywhere, just doesn't get mainstream consideration in the US....... 
Anyways it's been always a-ma-zing the unbeatable sequel of new trends your country has been the protagonist btw..... Jazz, Blues, soul, funk, rap, hip-hop and now 'electronic' hip-hop!......... 
The overwhelming amount of information on a daily basis restrains people from rewinding the news record archives to refresh their memories...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2017 at 15:59
I remember reading a blog post by The Cynical Musician (Krzysztof 'Faza' Wiszniewski) about the decline of instrumental skills among the general population. I can't find the post now, the blog is having some issues now.

Anyway, the gist of the post was that the younger generations have grown too used to instant gratification to invest the time to learn playing an instrument. Why spend long years learning to play guitar when you can start up Guitar Hero and slap a plastic controller while playing along to a limited repertoire of popular rock songs for an audience of thousands of virtual fans?

Furthermore, with the exception of techno/dubstep/house/electronic dance music, all the main artists promoted by the media and whose albums sell best belong to solo acts such as Beyoncé, Justin Bieber, Adele, Taylor Swift, Rihanna, Bruno Mars, Jennifer Lopez, Justin Timberlake, Michael Bublé, Katy Perry, Miley Cyrus, etc (interesting note: I don't own a single song by any of the listed singers). Another thing to consider is the popularity of shows that focus on vocal talent, such as American Idol, The Voice and Glee. While it's true that vocals have historically been the focus of popular music, in the past much more people used to learn piano or guitar to accompany themselves while singing popular tunes.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2017 at 19:30
Originally posted by Tillerman88 Tillerman88 wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Electric guitar isn't cool any more. When I hear the youth of today blasting music, it's never guitar oriented rock but rather hip hop or electronica. Hip hop has usurped the rock word for lyrical relevance in the 21st century and electronic music is the new hip way of escapism. Many youth deem rock and many forms of guitar music too orthodox and established as well as musicians having taken the mastery to the logical conclusions.

^LOL ..... Electric guitar and Rock are very well and will keep alive everywhere, just doesn't get mainstream consideration in the US....... 
Anyways it's been always a-ma-zing the unbeatable sequel of new trends your country has been the protagonist btw..... Jazz, Blues, soul, funk, rap, hip-hop and now 'electronic' hip-hop!......... 

Yeah, the US has conjured up a bunch of musical gems. I agree that electric guitar oriented rock will NEVER go away but what i mean that it isn't "cool" anymore is that it isn't THE golden instrument that it once was. Now it's just another musical texture in a sea of many. In a way it has been humbled and supplicated to join the greater instrument family instead of hog the limelight but it will always be a magnet for those extroverts who want to take it in new directions.

Before we cry a pool of tears at the electric guitar's eulogy we should also remember that we are in a strange period of time where the younger generations have all of music history at their finger tips. They are experimenting with new ideas as well as reviving old ones. The cross-pollination possibilities of world music has really only just begun. I think that the downward trend of electric guitar sales doesn't necessarily portend an inevitable death sentence, i just think it's in a temporary slumber while the younger generations are preoccupied in the world of computer technology which is distracting them from taking music into deeper arenas. I mean really. Where is the money in music these days? Why would someone take up the electric guitar which takes years to master when it's so much easier to study computer science and get a six figure salary upon graduation. I believe the decline most likely has more to do with economics as the root cause more than anything. Judging from ratings on Rate Your Music, rock music, old and new is very much universally loved. It's just not feasible to make a good living in that field any longer unless one commits years of his / her life and then there are never any guarantees

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2017 at 23:06
A few things to consider: 

a) most popular musical instruments seem to wax and wane....accordions were hugely popular after WWII, peaking in 1955 or so....see this link

b) I've played electric guitar since 1966 (I still have my first guitar, a Japanese "Norma"), and I've seen the hobby wax and wane a bit.  There are probably more playable, decent-quality guitars available than ever, at lower cost - even guitars from places like Indonesia can be serviceable, and Chinese guitars are very well made for the most part. 

c) If sales are dropping, so is the birth rate.  Also, the manufacturers bear some blame, as they have spent little effort to cultivate female players through the years....if auto manufacturers did the same, think how their sales would suffer. 

d) decent guitars last nearly forever - Steve Howe still plays his beloved ES-175 that he's had from the beginning of his career.  

I think we'll always see guitars having a role, but the "guitar hero," usually a slender man with mop of thick, long hair, seems a bit dated.  If the guitar industry retreats, that may be a good thing for the makers of high-quality instruments which I prefer.  I'm not terribly worried about it, but some of the big names may disappear completely.  This has happened with other instruments in the past, we'll probably see it with guitars.  

More ladies with guitars, please....









Edited by cstack3 - July 03 2017 at 06:20
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2017 at 02:18
Originally posted by Replayer Replayer wrote:

I remember reading a blog post by The Cynical Musician (Krzysztof 'Faza' Wiszniewski) about the decline of instrumental skills among the general population. I can't find the post now, the blog is having some issues now.

Anyway, the gist of the post was that the younger generations have grown too used to instant gratification to invest the time to learn playing an instrument. Why spend long years learning to play guitar when you can start up Guitar Hero and slap a plastic controller while playing along to a limited repertoire of popular rock songs for an audience of thousands of virtual fans?

Furthermore, with the exception of techno/dubstep/house/electronic dance music, all the main artists promoted by the media and whose albums sell best belong to solo acts such as Beyoncé, Justin Bieber, Adele, Taylor Swift, Rihanna, Bruno Mars, Jennifer Lopez, Justin Timberlake, Michael Bublé, Katy Perry, Miley Cyrus, etc (interesting note: I don't own a single song by any of the listed singers). Another thing to consider is the popularity of shows that focus on vocal talent, such as American Idol, The Voice and Glee. While it's true that vocals have historically been the focus of popular music, in the past much more people used to learn piano or guitar to accompany themselves while singing popular tunes.
Taylor Swift plays guitar.  Big smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2017 at 06:19
Originally posted by infocat infocat wrote:

Taylor Swift plays guitar.  Big smile

Very true, and she is cited as an influence on girls picking up the instrument!! 

Fender, Gibson etc. should try to get Lady Gaga to pick up guitar, she's a very good keyboardist! Clap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2017 at 08:11
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

A few things to consider: 

a) most popular musical instruments seem to wax and wane....accordions were hugely popular after WWII, peaking in 1955 or so....see this link

b) I've played electric guitar since 1966 (I still have my first guitar, a Japanese "Norma"), and I've seen the hobby wax and wane a bit.  There are probably more playable, decent-quality guitars available than ever, at lower cost - even guitars from places like Indonesia can be serviceable, and Chinese guitars are very well made for the most part. 

c) If sales are dropping, so is the birth rate.  Also, the manufacturers bear some blame, as they have spent little effort to cultivate female players through the years....if auto manufacturers did the same, think how their sales would suffer. 

d) decent guitars last nearly forever - Steve Howe still plays his beloved ES-175 that he's had from the beginning of his career.  

I think we'll always see guitars having a role, but the "guitar hero," usually a slender man with mop of thick, long hair, seems a bit dated.  If the guitar industry retreats, that may be a good thing for the makers of high-quality instruments which I prefer.  I'm not terribly worried about it, but some of the big names may disappear completely.  This has happened with other instruments in the past, we'll probably see it with guitars.  

More ladies with guitars, please....









All EXCELLENT and relevant points. Go Orianthi!!!!



Edited by siLLy puPPy - July 03 2017 at 08:12

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2017 at 08:42
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Where is the money in music these days? Why would someone take up the electric guitar which takes years to master when it's so much easier to study computer science and get a six figure salary upon graduation. I believe the decline most likely has more to do with economics as the root cause more than anything. Judging from ratings on Rate Your Music, rock music, old and new is very much universally loved. It's just not feasible to make a good living in that field any longer unless one commits years of his / her life and then there are never any guarantees

I agree that jobs in the STEM fields (science, technology, engineering, mathematics) tend to be much better remunerated than those in the music industry. However, I think you are overestimating the value of a computer science degree by a factor of about two. Aside from huge companies such as Google, Apple, Amazon or maybe some startup that's flush with venture capital, I don't most companies can't afford/aren't willing to pay programmers that kind of money (a six figure entry salary essentially means the newly minted graduates will be able to generate even more revenue for their employers). The high cost of living in the Silicon Valley may be skewing the salaries as well. I know I'm nowhere near a six figure income as a software engineer and that includes yearly raises for the past several years.

In addition, I don't think there is that much overlap between the computer geeks and music nerds to significantly affect a random person's decision to pursue playing electric guitar versus writing software for a living. Your scenario of a young person making a choice between becoming a musician or a software engineer is essentially limited to the set of high school students who have an aptitude and interest in both music and STEM fields and who have received a significant amount of musical training.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2017 at 09:42
Originally posted by Replayer Replayer wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Where is the money in music these days? Why would someone take up the electric guitar which takes years to master when it's so much easier to study computer science and get a six figure salary upon graduation. I believe the decline most likely has more to do with economics as the root cause more than anything. Judging from ratings on Rate Your Music, rock music, old and new is very much universally loved. It's just not feasible to make a good living in that field any longer unless one commits years of his / her life and then there are never any guarantees

I agree that jobs in the STEM fields (science, technology, engineering, mathematics) tend to be much better remunerated than those in the music industry. However, I think you are overestimating the value of a computer science degree by a factor of about two. Aside from huge companies such as Google, Apple, Amazon or maybe some startup that's flush with venture capital, I don't most companies can't afford/aren't willing to pay programmers that kind of money (a six figure entry salary essentially means the newly minted graduates will be able to generate even more revenue for their employers). The high cost of living in the Silicon Valley may be skewing the salaries as well. I know I'm nowhere near a six figure income as a software engineer and that includes yearly raises for the past several years.

In addition, I don't think there is that much overlap between the computer geeks and music nerds to significantly affect a random person's decision to pursue playing electric guitar versus writing software for a living. Your scenario of a young person making a choice between becoming a musician or a software engineer is essentially limited to the set of high school students who have an aptitude and interest in both music and STEM fields and who have received a significant amount of musical training.

Living in the Bay Area i may see more computer geeks than the rest of the planet for sure however my overall analysis isn't incorrect i believe. Music isn't profitable any more for the vast majority of musicians out there so it is put into a mere "hobby" category. This probably has something to do with the decline of the music industry as well. Now that there are millions of aspiring musicians instead of a few nurtured talents, it has become easier to create music but in the process has watered everything down as well with only a few dedicated individuals being able to overcome the odds. In the Bay Area six figure salaries are common and people come here from all over the world to work here. I'm sure i'm probably only experiencing the cream of the crop. I'm only offering my experiences. Even if a six figure salary never comes, the prospects are enough to lure would-be musicans into non-related fields. It seems like everyone out here stuck in a never-ending tech project wishes they had more time to nurture their artistic talents.



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