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Aussie-Byrd-Brother
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Joined: October 12 2011
Location: Melb, Australia
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Points: 7951
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Posted: July 03 2017 at 19:51 |
This poppy direction shouldn't have been entirely unexpected at some point. I mean, there were pop pieces all the way back on the first proper Porcupine Tree album `On The Sunday of Life' (`Jupiter Island', anyone? , and some of us were probably at "ground-zero" when Porcupine Tree fully started moving in the song-based direction with `Stupid Dream' and can vividly recall the cries of `sell-out' even back then, and especially when `Lightbulb Sun' went even further in that direction. Now, they're often considered very special PT/SW albums from the fanbase! Steven said even back at the time of those albums that trying to craft successful accessible tunes was a great challenge that he was fascinated by (probably not his exact words, but I'm sure others remember those kind of quotes from the time), so this seems like even more a natural evolving pattern from him as an artist. Very curious to see how it pans out. Besides, there's a massive difference between well-crafted catchy songs that still show intelligence, and blatantly commercial vacuous teenybopper fluff. Some people seem to confuse simply being catchy and commercial as being instantly a disgraceful sin!
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 12608
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Posted: July 03 2017 at 21:50 |
This song sounded surprisingly pop to me indeed too... and I thought there were songs with pop sesibilities from him or Porcupine Tree before, but this one shows how mistaken I was. Actually, I don't think the song was particularly bad, I could listen to it without the urge to put it off... but neither is it a great song, not even for pop standards. There are many pop songs that I do love and want to hear from time to time, but I don't think this one will be one of them. On the other hand, having one pop song (so far) doesn't mean the new album will be a pop one, nor that Wilson is changing the direction of his career, so I wouldn't rush up to conclusions. I guess we'll just have to see how the album turns out, and what he does next. One more thing, I believe it's better for an artist to follow his inspiration, whatever he really feels like doing, even if it's not what fans are expecting, than to repeat himself and go by the motions with an uninspired release.
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Blaqua
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 06 2016
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 242
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Posted: July 03 2017 at 23:11 |
The song is rather catchy, would make a competitive Eurovision entry. In any case I think when a musician makes such a radical U-turn in his style, it usually means he currently can't come up with notable material belonging to the genre he's associated with or that he's bored of it.
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cemego
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2010
Location: Philadelphia PA
Status: Offline
Points: 497
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Posted: July 04 2017 at 02:10 |
So let me get this right... If the stuff is a bit simpler and not in some ridiculous time signature, its not prog?!
I'm sorry, I've been with Steve Wilson's music since the beginning. I think he's come so far. I think one of the most endearing things about "prog" music is that when you follow a "prog" artist, it's an adventure. If Wilson was going to put out another Porcupine Tree sounding album like Up The Down Stair would you really be impressed? You'd probably say it was boring and he hasn't "prog"ressed. I can appreciate what he is doing here and to be honest, I LIKE IT. The lyrics are NOT trite and stupid and the song sounds good. It sounds like he's working hard to make something challenging and yet appealing to the ear (i.e. something that sticks in the head).
I'm sure there will be arguments out there about my comment, but "prog" is short for "progressive" and I dont think it's fair to say this isn't "prog". I think he is "prog"ressing and isn't that what we are all here for? If the guy makes a catchy tune that makes money are we all supposed to run screaming from him? Remember some of our most revered "prog" bands nearly killed their existence by making overly complex music.
I have been tuned in and will stay tuned with Mr. Wilson. I think he has the right idea for music and I like "prog"ressing with him. I think he suffers for his art and I feel like I'm witnessing his musical growth. Let's not be over dramatic about this. You know the man will toss in something really grand, dark, complex and over the top. I mean C'MON... IT'S STEVEN WILSON FOR CHRIST SAKE! Remember in order for something to be "pop" it should be "popular". I think Steve Wilson's music has to really dumb it down a TON more than this song to be a "pop" song. I don't think he'd ever sink that low. I think he likes a challenge too much.
Musical categories/genres are for sissies. Categorizing music ruins the art form. I say RUN WILD Mr. Wilson. I'm with you 100%
Edited by cemego - July 04 2017 at 02:15
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Blaqua
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 06 2016
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 242
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Posted: July 04 2017 at 02:44 |
It's obviously NOT prog, not his first non-prog material and there's nothing wrong or strange with that and no need to say sorry. "Musical categories/genres are for sissies." You are acting like an immature and contradictory fanboy (or fangirl) of class II (of class I are those who blindly diss their beloved artist simply because he changed direction and style): On the one hand you reject genres and on the other hand you use adjectives to describe and hence categorize music….
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aliano
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 01 2013
Location: A musty corner
Status: Offline
Points: 264
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Posted: July 04 2017 at 03:52 |
He just rips off, whether it's prog or pop.
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Jeffro
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2014
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2036
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Posted: July 04 2017 at 04:58 |
Blaqua wrote:
It's obviously NOT prog, not his first non-prog material and there's nothing wrong or strange with that and no need to say sorry. |
Agreed. It's not prog and there's nothing wrong with that. If he wants to branch out into pop or chamber music or electronic hip hop bluegrass, great, more power to him but don't call it prog because it isn't.
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 3136
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Posted: July 04 2017 at 05:20 |
Like Genesis in 1978 - he has decided to turn his back on his old fan-base. I'm sure some fan boy's will rave about this new output like the emperor's new clothes, but I wish him well for the time-being , and will not buy any more of his material until he returns back into the fold. Interestingly - if his new stuff is popular and he tours - what will his 'new' fans make of his old material? Or will he just play pop covers as well as the new material?? ELO meets Abba?? I think he has reached the end of his productive career. Simple as that.
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Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 12 2011
Location: Melb, Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 7951
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Posted: July 04 2017 at 05:30 |
If Wilson achieves a burst of raised status and/or greater commercial/financial success with this single and album, which would mean new audiences coming to his shows, I wouldn't be surprised if he'd model a set-list around his more accessible solo tunes and PT tracks. So we'd get things like `The Rest Will Flow', `Piano Lessons', `Where We Would Be', `Trains', `Feel So Low' etc etc....which wouldn't be so bad considering he wouldn't have played some of them for quite a while/ever...and they would be the best options to avoid freaking out the `muggles'/non-proggies!
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20503
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Posted: July 04 2017 at 05:45 |
I recall SW in an interview citing Lazarus, from the Porcupine Tree album Deadwing, as purposefully being more "radio friendly", so no surprise. It's happened to the best proggers at one time or another. I just tune all the pop stuff out. Especially Asia. (Sorry John W.)
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Thatfabulousalien
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2016
Location: Aussie/NZ
Status: Offline
Points: 1409
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Posted: July 04 2017 at 06:18 |
He's done a lot of other things in the past, that wasn't Porcupine Tree. I don't see the issue
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Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.
https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325
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Jeffro
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2014
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2036
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Posted: July 04 2017 at 06:32 |
Tapfret wrote:
Jeffro wrote:
Upbeat Tango Monday wrote:
I don't think he'll succeed going this route, though, since the target audience, young keg stand lovers and party goers, like their performers to be the same age they are...around 20. They don't want a desperate fame-seeking old man as a poster boy. |
Why not? It worked for Bernie Sanders |
Runner up to the losing candidate is an extremely loose definition of "It worked..." |
It worked insomuch that so many younger people flocked to the message of an old geezer.
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We all live in an amber subdomain, amber subdomain, amber subdomain.
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Manuel
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 09 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 12382
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Posted: July 04 2017 at 06:56 |
I guess he's doing what he thinks is better for his career, and that's ok. I hope he finds enough people who get interested in his music and buy his record/song, since I won't, and I'm guessing many of the prog lovers who used to buy his music, won't buy it either.
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024
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Posted: July 04 2017 at 07:55 |
lazland wrote:
Sounds quite good to me |
Yes - I like it.
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024
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Posted: July 04 2017 at 07:56 |
[QUOTE=aliano]He just rips off, whether it's prog or pop. [/QUOTE
What utter crap.
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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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someone_else
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: May 02 2008
Location: Going Bananas
Status: Offline
Points: 23996
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Posted: July 04 2017 at 08:23 |
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
Sorry but that song suxass. |
Agreed.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: July 04 2017 at 09:06 |
This isn't much pop from what I am hearing so far - Permanating and Song of I. Might have been pop a long time ago, but sounds way too complicated to be pop in today's market, even accounting for such dreary songs like Take Me to Church being pop hits now. He has always had these sort of songs, like Postcard on Grace for Drowning. Pariah sounds more 'commercial' but lot less so than Bent Knee's Hands Up.
I have never found his work to be particularly progressive. Came across as putting together proggy sections of music together (esp Sectarian) than an actually organic, exploratory piece of music. So in a way, I don't mind if he has finally ditched the prog and kept the pop part which was always there in his music (and which made PT a fantastic gateway prog band in the noughties). But it may be a bit too late in the day, which is why I think it's probably NOT driven by purely commercial motives. I take back what I said about Pariah, the dynamics are way too good on this recording to pass off as contemporary pop.
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RoeDent
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 08 2009
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 850
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Posted: July 04 2017 at 10:53 |
This is pop in the way that Kate Bush, Tears for Fears, Talk Talk and Peter Gabriel are pop. If you think that "pop" is in any way a regression from "prog", and if you criticize artists for making something we can all enjoy and hum along to, then you're just as shallow as those who do it the other way round.
I suppose it's to be expected that the haters will come marching in with their ridiculous elitist remarks when a prog artist has anything that approaches success. It's just jealousy. This music is amazing and you know it. You're missing out on the best music being made right now.
Edited by RoeDent - July 04 2017 at 10:56
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cemego
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2010
Location: Philadelphia PA
Status: Offline
Points: 497
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Posted: July 04 2017 at 12:23 |
This is in response to Blaqua's reply to my original post: "It's obviously NOT prog, not his first non-prog material and there's nothing wrong or strange with that and no need to say sorry. "Musical categories/genres are for sissies." You are acting like an immature and contradictory fanboy (or fangirl) of class II (of class I are those who blindly diss their beloved artist simply because he changed direction and style): On the one hand you reject genres and on the other hand you use adjectives to describe and hence categorize music…. " Thanks for the personal insult. I had no idea that kinda sh*t was allowed on here. I guess I'll just stop posting.
Before I go, I would just like to say, that categorizing music in general, limits the artists the ability to express themselves in the way they would like. If Steve Wilson tomorrow decides to start doing swing jazz, would you hate him for it?
I appreciate artists who try different things.
and I don't like personal insults on comment boards... Thanks for ruining this for me.
Congratulations. You "Blaqua" make the internet suck!
Edited by cemego - July 04 2017 at 12:27
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 3136
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Posted: July 04 2017 at 12:28 |
RoeDent wrote:
This is pop in the way that Kate Bush, Tears for Fears, Talk Talk and Peter Gabriel are pop. If you think that "pop" is in any way a regression from "prog", and if you criticize artists for making something we can all enjoy and hum along to, then you're just as shallow as those who do it the other way round.
I suppose it's to be expected that the haters will come marching in with their ridiculous elitist remarks when a prog artist has anything that approaches success. It's just jealousy. This music is amazing and you know it. You're missing out on the best music being made right now.
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You can't (by definition) lie back close your eyes and melt into....pop! it's for dancing round your handbag or in the background while you drink ice-cold-piss (cooking-lager) or do the ironing or something else! Pop is supermarket/restroom/parties/nightclubs/pubs - it's audio bubble-gum !!!
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