Prog is dead, so dead |
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Kepler62
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 09 2017 Location: Fort Erie Status: Offline Points: 501 |
Posted: July 22 2017 at 04:58 | ||
You forgot Jan Akkerman. Progressive rock was part of a creative era. If you want to consider what's coming out these days prog then prog is not dead. I tend to stick to the glory years of the early seventies.
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Stool Man
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 30 2007 Location: Anti-Cool (anag Status: Offline Points: 2689 |
Posted: July 22 2017 at 05:15 | ||
The words most often used as the final gasp of any fading argument anywhere. "Oh come on" does not mean "I am correct", it means "Please please please let me get what I want" Also, nobody calling themself a progaholic would say prog is dead. But feel free to continue being marvellous |
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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Thatfabulousalien
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 27 2016 Location: Aussie/NZ Status: Offline Points: 1409 |
Posted: July 22 2017 at 06:11 | ||
Prog isn't dead, I'm still alive
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Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.
https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325 |
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23098 |
Posted: July 22 2017 at 06:14 | ||
Like Iain (lemming) I too can relate to the OP in that Prog Rock "lost" something during the latter part of the 70s. It didn't die though it's a style of music that is still being aped today which in effect is its biggest problem - one the audience is just as guilty of imo. Prog fans were the first to dismiss their heroes' attempts at making something new. When we the audience at some point in time turned prog rock into a sticker/box with prefabricated notions of how it is supposed to sound like - we killed the spirit.
Most of what's progressive these days happen outside of the tried and tested prog format, which perhaps isn't that strange seing as the genre by now is half a century old. What I then don't get is the perpetual wall of negatives steaming out of people who once thought an open mind opened doors in music. Nowadays the mindset seems to be reversed. More than anything it seems as if some people indeed are searching for a time machine to transport them back into their youths where they, ironically, were far more open to new experiences. Then again give these people what they want and they immediately play the 'copycat' card. "I want what Yes, Genesis and Yes were doing dammit!!!!! It's so sad that nobody's making music like this anymore' *is given some 50 (unknown to him) examples of bands doing exactly that* 'Baahh!! That is some horribly derivative sh*te! Why aren't bands trying out new stuff anymore?' *is given some 50 (unknown to him) examples of bands doing exactly that* 'That's not prog' This is the neverending conversation one can enjoy with such folks. Often people claiming to be openminded and always lookig for new experimental stuff. New and experimental is just code for 'I want music that sounds exactly like the stuff already found in my record collection and if it is made after 1980 it is automatically unoriginal/non melodic/ poorly produced/without heart/insert excuse for not giving music a fair shot. I am not saying that it is mandatory to keep exploring and I am not saying that it is possible to attain the eclectism of one's youth all through life, but it is perfectly possible to be honest with oneself and in being that realise that it probably was a loooooooooooong time ago since you actively sought out new avenues of sound - tried to listen to music that does not sound like anything in your collection - just like that time you bought In The Court Of The Crimson King with no expectations because you quite simply never had heard anything like it before...yet for some reason were able to keep an open mind. Edited by Guldbamsen - July 22 2017 at 06:24 |
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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Progaholic2
Forum Newbie Joined: November 13 2016 Location: Harlow Status: Offline Points: 32 |
Posted: July 22 2017 at 06:43 | ||
Ok, as my previous statement about the death of prog offended you so much, please substitute, 'I listen to a lot of music that goes under the heading of Prog, and I don't like any of it, (with a few exceptions).'
One question, if you met me in the street, would you call me an idiot or a troll? Please note that a number of people read my original post and responded with suggestions of music that I might like, which was very helpful. They didn't see the need to climb on their high horses and resort to judgment and insult. Learn
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23098 |
Posted: July 22 2017 at 07:34 | ||
Not offended of what you said - we've heard it all before - but offended by the hostile tone in your OP. Big difference.
High horse? I think you started the derby big boy. Whatever makes you feel more at ease be my guest. You commenced this horse manure and when you then get back in full you complain. Oh and btw I have not thrown any insults your way that you weren't asking for to begin with |
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Online Points: 20470 |
Posted: July 22 2017 at 07:56 | ||
Look, we killed God for you, wasn't that enough?
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 14714 |
Posted: July 22 2017 at 08:27 | ||
So agree with this. Maybe it's the listener who doesn't have enough soul to understand where its coming from
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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15916 |
Posted: July 22 2017 at 09:08 | ||
^ You know it !!
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zwordser
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 04 2008 Location: Southwest US Status: Offline Points: 1361 |
Posted: July 22 2017 at 09:17 | ||
Dead! just the way I like it!--meaning its had a burial, meaning its underground, meaning I can dig it up and present it as something unique and interesting to the few who will listen.
If it were popular, or in style,or in vogue (or whatever), I probably wouldn't listen to it. |
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Z
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Online Points: 20470 |
Posted: July 22 2017 at 10:07 | ||
If being dead wasn't the in scene, I'd be offended. The Walking Dead, et al.
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: July 22 2017 at 10:39 | ||
This is ProgArchives pal, a different universe
How sad. You don't listen Bach, Beethoven, Wagner, Mussorgsky because they are no longer with us. How sad you can't enjoy Dr. Strangelove or The Party because Peter Sellers is dead. How depressive you can't amaze before The Sixtine Chappell or Petra because their creators passed centuries ago Art is immortality, artists never die until their opus is not listened or viewed.
And some good images to remind you Prog is alive and kicking Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 22 2017 at 10:53 |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16136 |
Posted: July 22 2017 at 10:41 | ||
With all due respect, your opinion is not only educated, it is not even knowledgeable about most music. Witness a few things: 1. The word "prog" nowadays is merely used as a sort of idealistic concept/idea, and basically means that it is not a pop song, although so many of them still use the sonata concept way too much, that has been overdone in most rock music! 2. The terminology that identifies "avant-garde", "raga" and many other terms, are not exclusive to rock music, the only thing that you seem to listen to, otherwise you would not have used the terms so loosely. Ragas are very well developed and have thousands of years in studies and work, and are highly respected for the musicianship and its artists. In fact, there almost are no rock musicians that qualify at all ... even though we might separate a Jon McGlothlin, a Jan Garbarek, and some other folks that have experimented extensively with the Eastern Idioms and done very well with them, mind you! "Avant-Garde" was originally, if I am not mistaken, used to identify classical music, however, it has a much longer history. Check out this quote "The avant-garde (from French, "advance guard" or "vanguard", literally "fore-guard")[1] are people or works that are experimental, radical, or unorthodox with respect to art, culture, or society.It may be characterized by nontraditional, aesthetic innovation and initial unacceptability, and it may offer a critique of the relationship between producer and consumer. 3. "More melodic" ... you just closed down the majority of elements that make for 100 years of music in the 20th century and are still alive in modern jazz and rock music. If all you can listen to is "melodic", you DEFINITELY have missed out what "progressive" and "prog" is really all about, since most of it does not, necessarily, rely on melody to create its work. However, the public's tastes (supposedly) tends towards melody, even if it is the horse's carriage wheel, or your teeth! 4. If you want suggestions, there are too many possibilities in a post like this. The best way for you to find something that you can sink your teeth into, is to look at the top 100 at PA (I would rather recommend the bottom 100, but PA has not yet considered the option!), and start listening. And by LISTENING, I do not mean just 10 seconds of each song, because you didn't like that portion of it, and it didn't click with you. Lastly ... compositional abilities vary a lot. The main problem with COMMERCIALISM is that it tends to LIMIT the amount of compositional ability to just being clever and slimmer, meaning trying to do more in a shorter period of time, so your "song" seems tighter and better. Sadly, there are a lot of different things in music that get wasted here, like themes developing ... rock music does not like to "develop" anything .. it merely changes chords! The "progressive" of the older days, did as well, but it was capable of maintaining a theme and an idea. Today's material, and I will not trash a Dream Theater, or Iron Maiden, is a bit different in that it is expected that things be a bit more bombastic, and sometimes these bands forget the music/idea/theme so they can satisfy an audience with more loudness ... I consider that a COMMERCIAL idea and concept, because music does not "require" anything, except that you create your thing as you feel it and not be influenced by the outside, although most of it IS influenced by society, Culture and many other personal elements. But that would not define a Picasso, Dali, Stravinsky, for example and would force us to re-evaluate the word and work. I am not sure you are being a total critic of the music ... I think that you are feeling that some of the newer music has less "sole" and "soul" than the earlier music did, and I am not totally in agreement with that. Music has FOREVER LIVED, and had many different things in it. The only part that is a concern here is if we took the time and effort to LISTEN to it. And in this area is where many of us fail, and stop appreciating one of the most beautiful sides and arts of the human spirit. PERIOD!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Manuel
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 09 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 12349 |
Posted: July 22 2017 at 10:42 | ||
Great point. We can say that of all forms of music, starting with classical, to the present day. Most popular music of today will be considered dead in a decade or two. Why not just enjoy what you like and forget about the rest? Since it's a subjective issue, what you like or think, is only your opinion, which people can and will agree or disagree with. The debate will go on forever if we take it this way, so it's better to enjoy what you like, for your own particular reasons, and forget about the rest, either if it's considered good or bad, dead or alive, by others.
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twosteves
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 01 2007 Location: NYC/Rhinebeck Status: Offline Points: 4070 |
Posted: July 22 2017 at 11:21 | ||
I understand what the OP is saying---I love this site and what I have learned about me is I'm pretty picky about what prog I like---and a lot of it is sh*t to me too---but musical taste is very personal.
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HemispheresOfXanadu
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 28 2012 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4339 |
Posted: July 22 2017 at 11:31 | ||
Good thing I'm just a music fan at this point!
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@ProgFollower on Twitter. Tweet me muzak.
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Quinino
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 26 2011 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 3654 |
Posted: July 22 2017 at 11:47 | ||
Wait !
According to the last news he might not be dead after all - several witnesses report he has lately been spotted under several disguises, purposely mocking the hasty undertakers from Gloom City. Rejoice, you mortals, rejoice ! |
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tboyd1802
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 01 2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 898 |
Posted: July 22 2017 at 12:25 | ||
Yep...
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He neither drank, smoked, nor rode a bicycle. Living frugally, saving his money, he died early, surrounded by greedy relatives. It was a great lesson to me -- John Barrymore
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Thatfabulousalien
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 27 2016 Location: Aussie/NZ Status: Offline Points: 1409 |
Posted: July 22 2017 at 18:30 | ||
deadarchives is a great forum
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Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.
https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325 |
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Queen By-Tor
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 13 2006 Location: Xanadu Status: Offline Points: 16111 |
Posted: July 22 2017 at 18:45 | ||
I think prog died years and years ago and what we're hearing it just music emulated from the archives of prog.
Because we're living in a simulation. |
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