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DeadSouls 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 28 2016
Location: Chile
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Points: 4255
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 Topic: Magma vs Van der Graaf Generator
Posted: February 22 2018 at 12:09 |
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VDGG
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Mortte
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 11 2016
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 5538
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Posted: February 22 2018 at 05:41 |
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Really love all the other Magma seventies albums, but really haven´t yet get as much into Udu Wudu & Attahk as many Magma fans seems to. Have to listen them more.
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10377
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Posted: February 22 2018 at 05:08 |
 Tom Ozric wrote:
The Swastika is also set at a different degree. f**k knows why Hitler used it to signify his Nazi regime. I guess everyone needs a cool symbol to identify with........
I love the Magma debut. Had to dig out the vinyl to look at it. Never paid attention to those signs. Gotta look for the Statue now. To me, it was just a mega-talon crushing cities and people - just like the imaginary power of the music. I’m glad to say that my first Magma LP was the live double - and it sounded like Satanic Jazz to my, very stoned, auditory perception. Glad I stuck with them, coz when I acquired Udu Wudu, De Futura solidified the purpose of my very existence. |
the Statue of Liberty is at the bottom on the left side of the cover
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 A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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dr prog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2446
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Posted: February 22 2018 at 02:00 |
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Wurdah Itah and 1001 Degrees Centigrades are 5 star prog albums.
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All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15916
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Posted: February 22 2018 at 01:52 |
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The Swastika is also set at a different degree. f**k knows why Hitler used it to signify his Nazi regime. I guess everyone needs a cool symbol to identify with........
I love the Magma debut. Had to dig out the vinyl to look at it. Never paid attention to those signs. Gotta look for the Statue now. To me, it was just a mega-talon crushing cities and people - just like the imaginary power of the music. I’m glad to say that my first Magma LP was the live double - and it sounded like Satanic Jazz to my, very stoned, auditory perception. Glad I stuck with them, coz when I acquired Udu Wudu, De Futura solidified the purpose of my very existence.
Edited by Tom Ozric - February 22 2018 at 01:53
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dr prog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2446
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Posted: February 22 2018 at 01:44 |
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Graaf are a better version of Genesis
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All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Mortte
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 11 2016
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 5538
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Posted: February 22 2018 at 00:15 |
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^I already know the history of swastikas, seen those swastikas in old Indian pictures. That´s why I put that comment nazi swastika (I believe Allen meant the ones with white round base and red around it). Anyway I have always though also in that first albums cover they are sympols of that chaos where world was gone and those spirituals decided to leave the earth. BTW that first one is my favourite Magma-album.
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10377
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Posted: February 21 2018 at 23:34 |
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the swastika is originally an ancient religious symbol from India. in Sanskrit "swastika" means "auspicious". the fact that the Nazis abused this symbol sadly overshadows the original meaning.
the symbol was also used in medieval alchemy; it appears in several alchemistic manuscripts, for example in a manuscript called "Splendor Solis" meaning "splendor of the sun" (this manuscript is actually a Renaissance manuscript dated 1532-1535, but the line between the Middle Ages and the Renaissance is a bit fluid).
by the way: if you look closely at the cover of the first Magma album you will not only find the swastika, you will also find the Statue of Liberty
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Mortte
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 11 2016
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 5538
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Posted: February 21 2018 at 22:45 |
BaldJean wrote:
about the 2 swastikas on the cover of Magma's first album: these are very obviously not meant to glorify the Nazis, on the contrary. the cover shows people in fear and terror; you would hardly do this if you wanted to glorify Nazism.
believing that these 2 swastikas on the cover prove that Vander is a Nazi is actually quite similar to people believing Friede was serious when she parodied Nazi speeches
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In the wikisites I read (that text is not anymore there) that Gong´s Daevid Allen has said Vander had nazi swastikas in the wall in the begin of seventies. But I don´t think even he had a nazi admiring period in his life, he would have been nazi all of his life. Even David Bowie has nazi admiring period in the seventies (of course he could have put it his heavy cocaine using causing) but he married somali woman in the nineties.
Anyway, I don´t care, Magma has just made so great music!
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Mortte
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 11 2016
Location: Finland
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Points: 5538
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Posted: February 21 2018 at 22:34 |
micky wrote:
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No, it´s Gentle Giant.
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Mortte
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 11 2016
Location: Finland
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Points: 5538
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Posted: February 21 2018 at 22:32 |
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Like VDGG quite much, but really Magma to me!
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
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Points: 10377
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Posted: February 21 2018 at 18:52 |
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somehow I don't understand you at all, Micky; you sound like John Daly from "What's My Line?" giving one of his elaborate explanations. may we have a conference?
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46828
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Posted: February 21 2018 at 17:42 |
caught me logged out so I'll make this quick
many things... but John said it best.. and he and I connected because our tastes.. incluing a love of prog to degree. but it is only one of many types of music we love... so there is little tolerance for sh*tty prog...so I'll let explain. I love writers.. I am not one however. I agree completely with his thoughts on the band.
Van Der Graaf Generator are the fathers of "mediocre prog." (This should not be taken as me saying that VDGG themselves were mediocre, because I don't really believe that). As I've said many times on other pages on the site, I have nothing against prog rock as a whole, mainly because I refuse to buy into the notion that all the extra trappings prog brings to rock music are intrinisically incompatible with "the true spirit of rock and roll" (my personal least favorite phrase relating to rock music). Complexity, discord, "sophisticated" lyrics, non-traditional instrumentation etc are all perfectly fine by me, and the number of art-rock/prog-rock albums to which I give very high ratings on this webpage should aptly reflect that. However, for all this tolerance, there is a catch: I tolerate and love these aspects so long as they are an augmentation of and not a replacement for traditional musical creativity. I know that for many prog fans, memorability is something to be shunned, and that an increase in atmosphere and complexity and impenetrable imagery at the expense of "traditional" music values is greatly desired. For somebody like myself, though, for whom prog is only one genre that I enjoy (a genre I enjoy a lot in comparison to some others, but only one genre nonetheless), this is a very shaky approach to prog, and one that (unfortunately) VDGG uses quite a bit. I actually have somewhat the same problem with mid-period Jethro Tull - I'm totally in love with them through Thick as a Brick (as well as the Chateau D'Isaster tapes), but from A Passion Play onward, except for some isolated cases, there are far too many stretches of what my ears hear as "prog for the sake of prog" for me to be that enthused |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Frenetic Zetetic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 09 2017
Location: Now
Status: Offline
Points: 9233
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Posted: February 21 2018 at 17:33 |
micky wrote:
hah.. thank god for no brainers like this
Magma... by as many stars are there in the sky. VDGG in a word.. sucks... |
Just out of curiosity, what turns you off about VDGG?
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46828
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Posted: February 21 2018 at 16:50 |
hah.. thank god for no brainers like this
Magma... by as many stars are there in the sky. VDGG in a word.. sucks...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10377
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Posted: February 21 2018 at 16:25 |
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about the 2 swastikas on the cover of Magma's first album: these are very obviously not meant to glorify the Nazis, on the contrary. the cover shows people in fear and terror; you would hardly do this if you wanted to glorify Nazism.
believing that these 2 swastikas on the cover prove that Vander is a Nazi is actually quite similar to people believing Friede was serious when she parodied Nazi speeches
Edited by BaldJean - February 21 2018 at 16:26
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Frenetic Zetetic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 09 2017
Location: Now
Status: Offline
Points: 9233
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Posted: February 21 2018 at 13:03 |
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VDGG
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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TexasKing
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2016
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 577
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Posted: September 06 2017 at 02:54 |
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VDGG and it's not close at all.
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YESESIS
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2017
Location: Maine
Status: Offline
Points: 2215
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Posted: September 04 2017 at 15:25 |
Thanks for all your well thought out responses here everyone. At this point I don't actually care about either band lol, but I'm glad some of you do. Cheers.
Edit: geez.. sometimes it's hard to tell if it's a storefront or not lol.
Edited by YESESIS - September 04 2017 at 15:27
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YESESIS
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2017
Location: Maine
Status: Offline
Points: 2215
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Posted: September 04 2017 at 15:18 |
CosmicVibration wrote:
Not to beat a dead horse but yea, it’s probably best to stay
away especially during meditation. I
however, by association, had to confront it.
Even though I had a general idea of what the symbol was supposed to
represent it still perturbed me in a negative fashion when I saw it.
Not only did my wife’s friend have them in her apartment but
her parents proudly displayed the insignia all over their house. These were the nicest people I’ve ever met but
I just felt a bit strange in their home.
They even had a swastika door mat.
Which is kind of strange in its own right. If the symbol signifies the embodiment of God
as creation why would you want to swipe the soles of your shoes and trample on
it? Ah well, maybe that’s another
personal hang up I need to get over.
I don’t doubt you; I myself have had a few experiences and
hold a personal relationship with the Divine.
Wish you all the best on your progress and endeavors. You may want to consider the music of Jon
Anderson and George Harrison; I don’t think there are qualms as to where they
stand. A worthy song that comes to mind
is - I’ll Find My Way Home by Jon and Vangelis.
Also, My Sweet Lord by George Harrison.
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Thanks for the recommendations man.. I definitely love both of those guys.
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Magma vs Van der Graaf Generator
