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Magma vs Van der Graaf Generator

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Poll Question: Which do you choose?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
36 [63.16%]
21 [36.84%]
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YESESIS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YESESIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2017 at 22:21
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Wow, this is getting to be a blowout here. Maybe I need to give VdGG another chance..


I don't know what you have heard from this band, nor if my selection would work the same for you, buy my particular very favourite songs from this band are: "Darkness", "Man-Erg", "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers" (first half for me, after that it gets a bit too messy for my taste), "The Sleepwalkers", and "La Rossa". You might add "Refugees", though it's a bit too poppy for a band like this, but just because of that it can be a rather good gateway song for someone having trouble digesting their music.


Ok, I'll have to check out those songs. I was listening to H to He and liked the first two songs, but the lyrics seemed pretty dark idk. 


Actually, it seems you chose the album I liked the least from the first albums I got from them. And yeah, those songs you mention are the ones I liked better, but for me the ones I wrote before were better. Perhaps you should have started with "The Least we can do"... also the first two songs are the better ones, but so much better to get one into the band than those from H to He. As for the lyrics, I haven't payed so much attention to them, but indeed they seem to be somewhat dark... and very well thought... some of the better ones from prog, but indeed I should check them out and analize them better. However, I don't see why these dark lyrics should be a detriment for the music, it's not like he's trying to convince people to do atrocities and all. Crimson's first album has lyrics at least as dark as these ones (what darker lyrics could you want than "Epitaph"?). And the lyric for Killer are actually rather silly, talking about a shark wanting to have friends and every fish in the ocean trying to escape him.

Yeah, I guess you have a point.. I probably shouldn't let the dark lyrics stop me. Karn Evil 9 has some dark lyrics lol(and other obvious songs by them). But somehow with this band it seems more serious(just the way the guy sings.. a lot of passion I'll give him that). Anyway, I'll try to get to those songs you recommended. Thanks for your input. 


Edited by YESESIS - August 10 2017 at 22:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2017 at 21:08
Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Wow, this is getting to be a blowout here. Maybe I need to give VdGG another chance..


I don't know what you have heard from this band, nor if my selection would work the same for you, buy my particular very favourite songs from this band are: "Darkness", "Man-Erg", "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers" (first half for me, after that it gets a bit too messy for my taste), "The Sleepwalkers", and "La Rossa". You might add "Refugees", though it's a bit too poppy for a band like this, but just because of that it can be a rather good gateway song for someone having trouble digesting their music.


Ok, I'll have to check out those songs. I was listening to H to He and liked the first two songs, but the lyrics seemed pretty dark idk. 


Actually, it seems you chose the album I liked the least from the first albums I got from them. And yeah, those songs you mention are the ones I liked better, but for me the ones I wrote before were better. Perhaps you should have started with "The Least we can do"... also the first two songs are the better ones, but so much better to get one into the band than those from H to He. As for the lyrics, I haven't payed so much attention to them, but indeed they seem to be somewhat dark... and very well thought... some of the better ones from prog, but indeed I should check them out and analize them better. However, I don't see why these dark lyrics should be a detriment for the music, it's not like he's trying to convince people to do atrocities and all. Crimson's first album has lyrics at least as dark as these ones (what darker lyrics could you want than "Epitaph"?). And the lyric for Killer are actually rather silly, talking about a shark wanting to have friends and every fish in the ocean trying to escape him.


Yeah, I guess you have a point.. I probably shouldn't let the dark lyrics stop me. Karn Evil 9 has some dark lyrics lol(and other obvious songs by them). But somehow with this band it seems more serious(just the way the guy sings.. a lot of passion I'll give him that). Anyway, I'll try to get to those songs you recommended. Thanks for your input. 



Peter Hamill is for me a force to be reckoned with in prog, and a very unique singer. He just doesn't go the obvious way, and that makes it difficult for some people to like him, but I do apreciate his unique aproach at singing. There are times that it seems there's at least two different singers in the same song, while it's all him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MFP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2017 at 09:29
Both top 10 bands for me. Magma need a vote.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dopeydoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2017 at 11:55
Magma!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YESESIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2017 at 17:13
Come on Magma!!! However I have been listening to more VdGG and realized that both 'White Hammer' and 'Man-Erg' seem to have happy endings. And not that I necessarily need that in a song but it does give me a little more faith in this band moving forward lol. I truly WANT to like them, so we'll see what happens. Thank you all for your responses so far. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irrelevant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2017 at 19:44
Magma grabbed me big time.

Van der Graaf are yet to...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YESESIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2017 at 20:58
Originally posted by irrelevant irrelevant wrote:

Magma grabbed me big time.

Van der Graaf are yet to...


Same
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zwordser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2017 at 16:43
Last week I would have said VDGG, but Magma really blew me away with their incredible performance at Psycho Las Vegas last weekend.  So now I can't decide!


Edited by zwordser - August 24 2017 at 16:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maryes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2017 at 17:36
Although I'm not VDGG great  fan, Magma sound (nor Zeuhl style ) never attracted me !!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tapfret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2017 at 17:53
Originally posted by zwordser zwordser wrote:

Last week I would have said VDGG, but Magma really blew me away with their incredible performance at Psycho Las Vegas last weekend.  So now I can't decide!

This...this is the difference between everyone else and Magma. When I first bought MDK 30 years ago I was less than impressed. After seeing them live they clicked more so than any other of the several hundred live acts I have seen. Afterwards their albums took on a whole new life.
There is no act more pretentious and self-indulgent than labeling another's art as pretentious and self-indulgent.
Always copy to clipboard before clicking Post Reply.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YESESIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2017 at 20:26
Glad to see this has gotten a little closer now. For me Magma is the clear choice, but hard to beat VdGG on here it seems. Maybe I should give them another try.. yeah I prolly should.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2017 at 03:49
Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Come on Magma!!! However I have been listening to more VdGG and realized that both 'White Hammer' and 'Man-Erg' seem to have happy endings. And not that I necessarily need that in a song but it does give me a little more faith in this band moving forward lol.
I don't really get why this has any relevance at all - but people are different. I guess you can say that VdGG or rather Peter Hammill is an existentialist - in the early 70's in a naive-or youthful way (but I love it nevertheless) but from ca 1974-75 his imagery and metaphors gets quite sophisticated. Compare the wide eyed "teen angst directness" of Killer or Lost to the gloomy, compex wordsmithery of Sleepwalkers or how he deals with similar "alone in the universe/why are we here"-questions in the ever-expanding Red Shift - just four years later. 

- I'm afraid I seem to have strayed somewhat from my original brief. But in a nutshell: its not about how it ends. Its asking unanswerable questions and creating sceneries - grand or intimate for us to experience. I love how Hammill manages to combine intellectually ambitious lyrics while still wearing his heart on his sleeve.

Anyway if you fear darkness, unhappy thoughts or endings - never google "Kobaïan dictionary". You may risk never wanting to meditate to Magma again. 

Ẁurdah Ïtah!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CosmicVibration Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2017 at 10:40
Magma for the most part does not seem to be dark at all but rather very optimistic and of the light.  Even though there is mentions of human frailties and the evilness of people this is just an observation as to what’s going on.

Jon Anderson of Yes, although being very positive and spiritual in his lyrics also speaks of such things.  Relayer is a prime example, but even on Close to the Edge, which is mostly light there are contrasts of darkness.

I just picked up the latest DVD from Magma, Emehntentt-Re Trilogie, it’s simply mind blowing.

http://www.seventhrecords.com/en/video-dvd-38/emehntehtt-re-trilogy-1260.html

The premise seems to be an expanded version of Yes’s Close to the Edge.  There’s an interview with Christian Vander that’s over an hour long discussing not only the uniqueness and complexities of the music but the evolving concept of the band Magma.


KA:

K.A is a story of someone that’s a bit confused looking and fumbling for his way in life.  He is on a religious spiritual quest, searching and trying different paths not certain which one to take.

 

Kohntorkosz:

As Kohntorkosz he finds a path that resonates with him and is set on his journey to becoming a master.

 

Ëmëhntëhtt-Ré:

Ëmëhntëhtt-Ré was a grand master that was looking for immortality.  Konhntorkosz goes on a pilgrimage to visit the burial place of Ëmëhntëhtt-Ré.  As Konhntorkosz enters the burial chamber and opens the dusty tomb he falls into a trance. He is overloaded with information that will take him a lifetime to process.  .

 

Vander goes into much more detail but this is what I can remember from one quick viewing.  The interview is also in French which I don’t speak so I had to stay focused on the subtitles.

The main concept is that there are many levels of consciousness or awareness before full enlightenment.  This is everyone’s journey whether they realize it or not.  Evolution is inevitable…

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cosmiclawnmower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2017 at 14:47
I think this a very valid poll; both band's fans are extremely passionate about their favourite, in many cases fans of one love the other too (but not necessarily so..). It doesn't matter which ever way you vote, just expressing your passion and love for particular band helps keep its legacy alive.  I love both and really cant choose even after to thinking it in quite a bit of depth.. good call though!!
'The straight furrow is the labourers acknowledgement in the validity of art for art's sake' John Stewart Collis, 1940
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CosmicVibration Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2017 at 15:30


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eGgXa360-E&t=17s

excerpt from Köhntarkösz off of Ëmëhntëhtt-Ré Trilogie DVD


Edited by CosmicVibration - August 25 2017 at 15:34
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlkpad14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2017 at 16:32
How do you compare two really awesome bands like these?

It's like comparing Black Sabbath and Metallica... People do it, but I can't choose...
The Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin... Cry
Good music isn't dead; it just isn't on radio.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr prog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2017 at 16:46
Originally posted by mlkpad14 mlkpad14 wrote:

How do you compare two really awesome bands like these?

It's like comparing Black Sabbath and Metallica... People do it, but I can't choose...
The Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin... Cry

Magma and Graaf are pretty even. But I give Magma the vote because Graaf missed 3 of the best years of prog eg. 1972-74. As for the other bands, Sabbath and Zeppelin easily Big smile


Edited by dr prog - August 25 2017 at 16:47
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2017 at 16:57
Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

I voted for VDGG (and Hillary Clinton...)

And you admit it? Tongue The second part I mean. Hey, I did too and look what good it did me(and us). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2017 at 18:00
MAGMA

VAN DER GRAAF GENERATOR




Rooms of mushrooms rarely mush too much
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YESESIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2017 at 18:15
Thanks for all the responses so far everyone, and particularly all the information.. I just did some research on my own and I will NEVER listen to Magma again.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magma_(band) The "Controversy" section


Edited by YESESIS - August 25 2017 at 18:16
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