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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: September 09 2017 at 22:31 |
The first hint that Genesis might turn into a Pop band? The seeds were there right from the outset as Genesis would still have
gone in a more accessible direction if Gabriel had stayed longer, albeit one that embraced world
music. Like Gabriel anticipated before them, Collins, Rutherford and Banks realised that Prog's shelf life was over circa 1976 and that to reach a larger audience, they needed to go in a more accessible direction as their previous audience had largely dispersed. It seems clear that Hackett didn't necessarily share this view. (Genesis were still heavily in debt up to the Lamb Lies Down album and Phil Collins even considered just singing in the band by offering the drum gig to Bob Henrit of Argent, who declined) It's telling that when Jazz Rock was potentially the next big lucrative thing, Phil promptly joined Brand X then departed as soon as the cash registers refused to ring loudly enough. Similarly, he's embraced pretty much every extant contemporary style that's been in vogue from Motown, R'n'B, romantic ballads, to Big Band and even became an incredibly unconvincing actor for a while. Phil bashing has become wearyingly de rigueur over the last few years and although online petitions to dissuade him from returning to the music industry are of course crassly inappropriate, they're not entirely without a sliver of merit.
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Tillerman88
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 31 2015
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 495
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Posted: September 09 2017 at 22:35 |
The great Phil Collins hahahah
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The overwhelming amount of information on a daily basis restrains people from rewinding the news record archives to refresh their memories...
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15916
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Posted: September 09 2017 at 23:45 |
Genesis WERE a pop band with Silent Sun. They chose more musically ambitious paths thereafter. I Know What I Like - great Pop song with Gabriel. Trick Of The Tail - great Pop song with Collins. They always had 'Pop' in them. Fortunately, they knew how to balance it out and impress, and that goes for We Can't Dance too !! Though Invisible Touch hasn't aged well AT ALL.
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Cristi
Special Collaborator
Crossover / Prog Metal Teams
Joined: July 27 2006
Location: wonderland
Status: Offline
Points: 41335
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Posted: September 10 2017 at 00:14 |
Rutherford's Your Own Special Way
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 19616
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Posted: September 10 2017 at 01:19 |
HackettFan wrote:
Robbery, Assault and Battery |
respectfully disgree this is a mini-rock opera in the tradition of Harold The Barrel, Get Them out By Friday, Epping Forest tradition... and All In A Mouse's Night in W&W.
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024
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Posted: September 10 2017 at 03:08 |
Genesis never were a pop band.
What they did after Hackett left was to make more accessible prog, interspersed with some shorter, more commercial songs. This combination appealed to a wider audience and was more commercially successful.
Personally, I preferred their older material and rarely listen to anything outside the Trespass - Selling England period, though everything up to Wind and Wuthering is pretty good. After that, bits are very good (even the singles) but they pale in comparison.
Perhaps if they'd changed their name and become a new band, they'd have avoided adverse comparisons to some extent.
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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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someone_else
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 02 2008
Location: Going Bananas
Status: Offline
Points: 23996
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Posted: September 10 2017 at 08:18 |
Follow You Follow Me. Steve Hackett had left and the left hand of Tony Banks ceased to be active.
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Mormegil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 03 2010
Location: NE PA
Status: Offline
Points: 6450
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Posted: September 10 2017 at 08:59 |
Follow You Follow Me. Or pretty much after Mr. Hackett left.
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Welcome to the middle of the film.
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noni
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1092
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Posted: September 10 2017 at 09:10 |
Sean Trane wrote:
HackettFan wrote:
Robbery, Assault and Battery |
respectfully disgree
this is a mini-rock opera in the tradition of Harold The Barrel, Get Them out By Friday, Epping Forest tradition... and All In A Mouse's Night in W&W.
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I agree!!
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Upbeat Tango Monday
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 10 2015
Location: Buenos Aires
Status: Offline
Points: 1189
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Posted: September 10 2017 at 09:51 |
I know what I like
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Two random guys agreed to shake hands. Just Because. They felt like it, you know. It was an agreement of sorts...a random agreement.
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twosteves
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 01 2007
Location: NYC/Rhinebeck
Status: Offline
Points: 4070
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Posted: September 11 2017 at 07:53 |
Genesis' turn to commercial success follows the same trajectory as Phil's rise as one of the biggest hit making pop stars of recent times. I still believe Banks can do it all but prefers prog and classical music---Rutherford is a mixed bag but Mike and Mechanics smell like pop music to me. At this point a Hackett/Banks collaboration would be my dream come true. Then again GTR with Howe and Hackett was my dream come true with clearly mixed results! LOL
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miamiscot
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 23 2014
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 3418
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Posted: September 11 2017 at 08:57 |
"Your Own Special Way" felt like a real change in purpose for the band.
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CapnBearbossa
Forum Groupie
Joined: May 11 2016
Location: Baltimore
Status: Offline
Points: 59
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Posted: September 11 2017 at 10:21 |
I said Afterglow, but I actually believe the answer's more complex, and the process was maybe more gradual. They needed a concert staple that would attract women, so they did "Follow You Follow Me". Attw3 , Duke and Abacab all had great proggy tunes but a good measure of pop, as if just to show they enjoyed the male fans bringing girlfriends along to their concerts.... But the self-titled album in '83 was the first clear sign, I think, of their commitment to being a pop band. (Not that there's anything wrong with that! )
Edited by CapnBearbossa - September 11 2017 at 10:23
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Will higher mighty force redeem the one who dropped the moral compass, failed to fulfill the dream? -Ian Anderson
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Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166178
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Posted: September 11 2017 at 10:25 |
Your Own Special Way
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: @ wicker man
Status: Offline
Points: 32685
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Posted: September 11 2017 at 11:33 |
Good choices. Although one might argue that Genesis started-out as a sort of pop band, I'll go with "Silent Sun" off From Genesis to Revelation -- I like the song, and find the album quite charming incidentally.
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Just a fanboy passin' through.
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cemego
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2010
Location: Philadelphia PA
Status: Offline
Points: 497
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Posted: September 11 2017 at 11:35 |
I heard a long time ago that at some point, Phil Collins or Genesis (as a whole) were in Cologne Germany for some reason, and Phil bumped into Conny Plank who told him that he was a "soul singer" and this was before Duke ... and I think that tainted Phil to become more of a pop star/soul screamer singer. You can hear he sings less and souls it up more starting with Duke. Any one else hear this?
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listen to streaming stuff! no commercials!
http://wmom.servemp3.com:8000/listen.pls
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 12608
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Posted: September 11 2017 at 20:06 |
twosteves wrote:
Genesis' turn to commercial success follows the same trajectory as Phil's rise as one of the biggest hit making pop stars of recent times. I still believe Banks can do it all but prefers prog and classical music---Rutherford is a mixed bag but Mike and Mechanics smell like pop music to me. At this point a Hackett/Banks collaboration would be my dream come true. Then again GTR with Howe and Hackett was my dream come true with clearly mixed results! LOL | Oh yes, it would be great if Hackett and Banks teamed up to do another Genesis Revisited tour, and then a new studio album. Much better than a Genesis reunios of the 80's line-up. But then again, as I understand it, it's exactly those two that have the biggest grudge, and so the least likely reunion to happen.
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Magnum Vaeltaja
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 01 2015
Location: Out East
Status: Offline
Points: 6777
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Posted: September 11 2017 at 21:54 |
Logan wrote:
Good choices. Although one might argue that Genesis started-out as a sort of pop band, I'll go with "Silent Sun" off From Genesis to Revelation -- I like the song, and find the album quite charming incidentally. |
I'll have to agree with this one. I don't think it's so accurate to say Genesis was a prog band that turned pop, so much as they started as a pop band and just got a little sidetracked along the way.
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when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2014
Location: Mar Vista, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 4807
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Posted: September 12 2017 at 09:12 |
They never did entirely.
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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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iluvmarillion
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 09 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 3236
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Posted: September 13 2017 at 01:26 |
Hercules wrote:
Genesis never were a pop band.
What they did after Hackett left was to make more accessible prog, interspersed with some shorter, more commercial songs. This combination appealed to a wider audience and was more commercially successful.
Personally, I preferred their older material and rarely listen to anything outside the Trespass - Selling England period, though everything up to Wind and Wuthering is pretty good. After that, bits are very good (even the singles) but they pale in comparison.
Perhaps if they'd changed their name and become a new band, they'd have avoided adverse comparisons to some extent. |
Always felt Collins and Rutherford were good musicians whose sensibilities were more attuned to pop than prog rock, but were contained within the band while Gabriel, Phillips, Hackett and Banks were in the majority. When Hackett left, Banks was outnumbered, hence the direction Genesis went into staring with ATTWT.
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