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Should AOR bands be listed PA's discography?

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    Posted: September 17 2017 at 11:07
Hah thanks Greg. Enjoy your meeting with the Japanese answer to Samla Mamma Manna. Their answer to Faust is equally thrilling though but I don't know if you've ever checked out Omoide Hatoba? Madness incarnate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2017 at 10:26
You have a great mind and ear for musical association and for description. A fine choice for such a thing. Boredoms has that syncopated, ragged rhythmical quality of ragtime. And, inspired by you, it's time for this raggedy man to put on Vision Creation Newsun -- love that album.
"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They donít alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit the views" (Doctor Who - The Face of Evil, Jan 22, 1977).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2017 at 09:09
Acid Oriental Ragtime
I'd be willing to include more of that in a heartbeat. The only act that I can think of right this minute is Boredoms but then again I may have overextrapolated the term ragtime.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twosteves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2017 at 07:36
to sum up for me AOR is like porn--I know it when I see/hear itBig smileCensored
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2017 at 03:59
Only if they are prog.  heheheh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2017 at 07:58
^ And on Jazz Music Archives tagged as Acid Oriental Ragtime.

Their subgenres layout and album tagging really Swings. Is there any Avant Garde Acid Exotica styled AOR cause I think I'd like that?

^^ NO worries, Steve. I was really unsure as to what you meant by that.
Instead of posting such a paragraph, perhaps I should have been more direct and just asked or ignored that bit which also can work when in doubt. According to the olde village maxim, "Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself*" (The Prisoner).

* Edit: oneself, not myself as I had written. I'm projecting.

Edited by Logan - September 16 2017 at 10:11
"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They donít alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit the views" (Doctor Who - The Face of Evil, Jan 22, 1977).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PhideauxFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2017 at 05:57
On Prog Archives: no,
on Metal Music Archives: yes. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2017 at 04:35
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

^ and influenced by Prog which is important for Prog Related.

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Incidentally, when I look up AOR definition on google the main result I get is

"a type of popular music in which a hard rock background is combined with softer or more melodic elements."



exactly
AOR? what is that? Boston? Foreigner? Journey? 
that's what people think. Anyway, those who know little bit about music...
Agreed. Those that know only a little about music and, more importantly, the accompanying music industry would certainly refer to AOR as Adult Oriented Rock. Those that had careers in the recorded music industry would not and stay with Album Oriented Rock as the proper term. It's that simple.
 
Or, after viewing these redundant erroneous posts, perhaps not.




Not being in the music industry, I'll take your word for it. Semantics discussions can be very dull, but to understand the context it is important to understand how someone is using a term (from context its usually quite clear). My point on this particular issue was that AOR can mean different things (which definition and term is more valid is something of a moot point when it comes to what I was trying to convey). Most importantly, it can refer to a style or a radio format. As a style it has entered the common vernacular, and I had thought from your initial post that that aligned with your thinking. I was trying, in part, to defend what I saw as congruent to your initial post, that bands like Journey, Styx and AOR can be categorized by style as AOR, and commonly bands such as Pink Floyd (some for instance see Dark Side of the Moon as AOR), Frank Zappa and Led Zeppelin do not commonly fit that conception. But I side-tracked the topic to whatever extent.

Apologies if I have written any erroneous, redundant posts here (not sure if I'm reading you right). You are the master of ceremonies or host when it comes to your topic (although once you start a topic it belongs to everyone), and perhaps I should have given you more space to respond to the various posts instead of willy-nilly throwing in my two cents and my nilly willy, or so you might think -- my feet are petite, but one shouldn't draw too many conclusions based on that. I made some effort to answer your initial question in my first post while touching on some other tangents
Opps! I've over reached. I was referring to the numerous responses to past threads, over the last few months, regarding this topic and not to your replies to this thread in particular. My apologies for not making that clear. You may not be an expert on the music biz but you are an expert on various forms of prog. That is a given for someone of your stature on a prog website. And that's what is ultimately important to me.
Btw, it seems that the definition of AOR has gone the way of prog. It's now undefinable, so just like prog, I've decided to forget about it and just move forward. After all, life is too short. ;)


Edited by SteveG - September 16 2017 at 05:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2017 at 13:59
^ and influenced by Prog which is important for Prog Related.

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Incidentally, when I look up AOR definition on google the main result I get is

"a type of popular music in which a hard rock background is combined with softer or more melodic elements."



exactly
AOR? what is that? Boston? Foreigner? Journey?†
that's what people think. Anyway, those who know little bit about music...
Agreed. Those that know only a little about music and, more importantly, the accompanying music industry would certainly refer to AOR as Adult Oriented Rock. Those that had careers in the recorded music industry would not and stay with Album Oriented Rock as the proper term. It's that simple.
Or, after viewing these redundant erroneous†posts, perhaps not.




Not being in the music industry, I'll take your word for it. Semantics discussions can be very dull, but to understand the context it is important to understand how someone is using a term (from context its usually quite clear). My point on this particular issue was that AOR can mean different things (which definition and term is more valid is something of a moot point when it comes to what I was trying to convey). Most importantly, it can refer to a style or a radio format. As a style it has entered the common vernacular, and I had thought from your initial post that that aligned with your thinking. I was trying, in part, to defend what I saw as congruent to your initial post, that bands like Journey, Styx and AOR can be categorized by style as AOR, and commonly bands such as Pink Floyd (some for instance see Dark Side of the Moon as AOR), Frank Zappa and Led Zeppelin do not commonly fit that conception. But I side-tracked the topic to whatever extent.

Apologies if I have written any erroneous, redundant posts here (not sure if I'm reading you right). You are the master of ceremonies or host when it comes to your topic (although once you start a topic it belongs to everyone), and perhaps I should have given you more space to respond to the various posts instead of willy-nilly throwing in my two cents and my nilly willy, or so you might think -- my feet are petite, but one shouldn't draw too many conclusions based on that. I made some effort to answer your initial question in my first post while touching on some other tangents

Edited by Logan - September 15 2017 at 14:12
"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They donít alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit the views" (Doctor Who - The Face of Evil, Jan 22, 1977).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aapatsos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2017 at 12:12
Yes they should. They are part/have influenced part of this movement and its history. They are under Prog-related and this seems fine to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2017 at 05:58
I love JEFFERSON STARSHIP - Freedom at Point Zero and Nuclear Furniture.
Both are phenomenal albums - Rock, Pop, Heavy, New-Wave......and Prog !!
;man, I hate posting when 'half-cut'............

Edited by Tom Ozric - September 15 2017 at 05:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2017 at 04:25
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Incidentally, when I look up AOR definition on google the main result I get is

"a type of popular music in which a hard rock background is combined with softer or more melodic elements."


exactly
AOR? what is that? Boston? Foreigner? Journey? 
that's what people think. Anyway, those who know little bit about music...
Agreed. Those that know only a little about music and, more importantly, the accompanying music industry would certainly refer to AOR as Adult Oriented Rock. Those that had careers in the recorded music industry would not and stay with Album Oriented Rock as the proper term. It's that simple.
 
Or, after viewing these redundant erroneous posts, perhaps not.


Edited by SteveG - September 15 2017 at 04:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ForestFriend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2017 at 21:26
All those bands definitely had albums that were on the fringe of progressive rock; not necessarily their most representative or well-known work though (although I'm sure nobody's under the impression the Journey is here because of Don't Stop Believing).

Personally, I think it's better to be a bit more inclusive when accepting bands to PA than to really be choosy about which bands are prog enough. They'll mostly be reviewed and rated from the perspective of prog rock fans, so I think it's useful to see reviews for those albums by like-minded people. I was going to make a comment about how the descriptions for 4-star and 5-star ratings specifically mention the album in relation to prog rock music/collections, although I just noticed the the prog-related category removes the word "prog".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Argo2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2017 at 13:58
 I have a soft spot for a lot of those bands because that's what was on the radio when I was in high school. Journey, Styx,Toto, Van Halen, Boston, Asia.. In fact Asia played a big role in getting me in to prog.
I kind of look at those bands now as guilty pleasures.


Edited by Argo2112 - September 14 2017 at 14:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2017 at 11:52
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Incidentally, when I look up AOR definition on google the main result I get is

"a type of popular music in which a hard rock background is combined with softer or more melodic elements."


exactly
AOR? what is that? Boston? Foreigner? Journey? 
that's what people think. Anyway, those who know little bit about music...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2017 at 11:42
Incidentally, when I look up AOR definition on google the main result I get is

"a type of popular music in which a hard rock background is combined with softer or more melodic elements."

I think my google defauts to the OED web dictionary: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/aor

Slang is fine, English is a vibrant, living language. In time slang words can become accepted, formal vernacular. I would think that Adult-oriented rock has entered the lexicon as a formally accepted term, not that it's of much importance to me either way. It's not listed in my dictionary as informal or slang yet pecker in one sense contrary to the expression "Keep your pecker up" is.

If adult-oriented rock is good enough for perhaps the world's most venerable English depository of lexicanonical, and unlexicanonical vocabularisation, it's okay by me, and seems to contradict certain claims that some people seem to make about what AOR can't mean.

Edited by Logan - September 14 2017 at 11:45
"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They donít alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit the views" (Doctor Who - The Face of Evil, Jan 22, 1977).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2017 at 11:15
^Old slang is still slang, and the term Adult Oriented Rock was used in Britain by everyone except radio stations, which gives it no validity what so ever, unfortunately.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2017 at 11:11
^ I seem to remember reading that in Britain AOR generally referred to Adult-
oriented rock (a term used later than the US one) whereas in the US it generally referred to Album-oriented Rock. In both cases it seems that those were radio descriptions.

Definitions adapt over time. Incidentally, looking at my Oxford English Reference dictionary which is over twenty years old, it only mentions AOR as an abbreviation for adult-oriented rock music.

Edited by Logan - September 14 2017 at 11:13
"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They donít alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit the views" (Doctor Who - The Face of Evil, Jan 22, 1977).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2017 at 10:51
^I'm afraid that this is a case of the current vernacular superseding recording industry and the FM radio business terms for album based rock played on extended FM radio formats as it relates originally to the term Album Oriented Rock. This was done to track album play for the commercial interests of both parties.
Adult Oriented Rock was coined strictly to advise the radio listener that they would not be hearing the Clash played any time soon on that particular radio channel. Only the Carpenters. This morphed into a common usage but lacks the importance, both artistically, and more importantly, financially of the original and proper usage of  the term Album Oriented Rock.
 
In other words, Adult Oriented Rock has become a popular and accepted slang term.
 


Edited by SteveG - September 14 2017 at 10:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2017 at 09:59
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

No, I don't think they should be on PA simply by virtue of being AOR. There're too many of them. Some are straight out Prog. Others are not. I see some strange definitions of AOR here. It has nothing to do with being melodic. AOR stands for Album Oriented Rock, and refers to a historical change in which bands began to emphasize album releases over singles. Frank Zappa was AOR. Led Zeppelin was AOR.


Hmm...perhaps PA should list Mp3 Oriented Bands.


This is one of those topics that has been discussed here many times over the years. As with many terms, there are multiple definitions. The important things is to put things in the right context so that people "get" which definition you are referring to.

AOR can mean Album-oriented Rock and Album-oriented Radio (twas an American FM radio format), and Adult Oriented Rock. It commonly denotes a style of melodic rock music commonly with a hard rock element and keyboards (often synthesizers). It's not a peculiar way to term a style, and with a bit of googling one will find that many use the term AOR to denote a melodic rock style of rock music.

Here is AOR (Adult Oriented Rock) is defined at rateyourmusic:

https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/AOR/

Originally posted by rateyourmusic rateyourmusic wrote:

AOR

Also known as: Adult Oriented Rock
AOR (Adult Oriented Rock) is a sub-genre of Rock that emerged in the late 1970s and early 1980s as an amalgamation of Rock, Hard Rock and Progressive Rock. It is characterized by a rich, layered sound, slick production and a heavy reliance on pop/rock hooks, which led to its huge popularity in the late 1970s and early 1980s. Adult-oriented rock is distinguished from the US "album-oriented rock" FM radio format, also called AOR, which played not only adult-oriented rock but also album tracks and "deep cuts" from a variety of other rock genres.

AOR songs are almost always synthesizer driven and catchy and very often include harmonized vocals. The catchy choruses combined with relatively short song lengths make AOR a very radio friendly genre. The songs are more melodic than straight-ahead, regular Hard Rock, but still not nearly as light as Pop Rock.

Some of the earliest - and also the most well known - AOR bands include names like Asia, Boston, Foreigner, Journey, Survivor and Toto.

Although AOR experienced a decline in popularity in the 1990s, there has been a resurgence in recent years. Some of the notable groups in this later era include Brother Firetribe, Frederiksen/Denander, Place Vendome and Pride of Lions.


Arena rock is often synonymous with AOR, as is melodic rock, pomp rock, corporate rock, dad rock, Chris Rock (haha) etc.
"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They donít alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit the views" (Doctor Who - The Face of Evil, Jan 22, 1977).
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