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The Start of the Neo Prog Era

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dr wu23 View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 18 2017 at 08:37
I've always felt it's an unnecessary category since it's essentially just a slightly later version/origin  of symph prog.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2017 at 05:29
When I was an early teen in the mid to late 70's - Genesis and Yes were referred to as 'Contemporary Rock' as I can remember - or was this just my local group of friends and sharers of my early music influences?
I think the tag "Progressive Rock" was attached later - 'Art Rock' was also used to describe both Genesis and Queen ?? "2nd generation symphonic progressive rock" or 2GSPR began in the year 1980! - 'Live at the Target' is a brilliant example of this I think! - Sequences without the lyrics is superb!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2017 at 23:39
A genre doesn't appear by art of magic with one album, it's a process that lasts years or even decades.

People used to say that Prog was born with ITCOTCK, but where should we leave Procol Harum, The Nice, etc?

The same is with Neo Prog.

Symphonic golden era reached it's peak in 1974, but at the same time people had more problems accepting Relayer and The Lamb, and wanted something simpler.

ATOTT is a starting point, UK second album is even closer, I believe that of Pavlov's Dog would had released Pampered Menial, a few years later, they would had been considered the first Neo band so I would say that Neo Prog is defined somewhere  between 1978 and and 1980.

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - October 17 2017 at 23:40
            
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2017 at 20:45
Most(if not all)of the neo bands were influenced by the classic symph bands such as Yes, Genesis and Camel but there was an added "cutting edge" element that also showed a slight influence from punk, new wave and heavy metal at times(probably mostly new wave though)and just modern rock in general. The songs were also shorter(for the most part)and not as complex as the old symph stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote noni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2017 at 18:41
Could never figure out the difference between Symphonic and Neo.  Are these not similar in sound?...Confused  Smile

Specially when comparing newer bands of this generation.  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YESESIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2017 at 17:36
The Start of the Neo Prog Era 

I thought it was Script for a Jester's Tear.. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2017 at 15:27
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

It is my understanding from a previous conversation with a member of the Symphonic Team is that the main difference between bands being labeled as Neo bands instead of Symphonic bands has to do with the use/sound of the keyboards/strings.  Where as symphonic uses mellotrons and moogs and pianos and hammonds and violins and cellos for their strings, Neo uses that 80's synth sound generated by keyboards that are able to emulate the mellotrons and pianos and hammonds, etc.  There are probably more complicated reasons as well, but coming from somebody who attempted to suggest many, many bands for symphonic only to have them rejected and added to either Neo or Crossover, this was the understanding/conclusion that I came too.

There is something in this certainly and some modern symph bands follow the rules exactly as you say (Glass Hammer , Par Lindh Project , Deluge Grander etc) . IQ have recorded some complex music but generally fall back on sampled sounds quite a lot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote noni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2017 at 13:51
I like most genres of prog and to expand this has often confused me over the past few years.  The fact Neo came on the seen during the 80s period and explored newer symphonic bands,  I was happy and willing accept the new genre..  Now I'm finding there's too many genres,  to which leaves me confused to further my discovery of new music.  I have to admit the newer Rio/Avant genre I find too complex and difficult to get into.   But saying that,  I have a number of great artists that fall under that category, which I love too bits.

The only true test is to listen and buy..  Glad that we have bandcamp and YouTube to help us.  Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rednight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2017 at 13:31
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Saga seems to be a good contender for first neo prog band.
Don't get me going on that whole Saga thing (they blow!).

Edited by Rednight - October 17 2017 at 13:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WeepingElf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2017 at 13:19
I wouldn't tie it to those new synthesizers, though they of course influenced the sound greatly. A DX7 just doesn't sound like a Mellotron after all. Yet, I think influences from new wave and hard rock are just as important.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2017 at 21:03
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

If a band uses DX7's & D50's, they're neo! LOL

I had the EXACT same thought!!  LOL!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2017 at 03:56
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^yeah! actually the correct question would be: when did the term NEO-PROG actually come into existence? Then someone had to retroactively designate bands from the past to fit into the newly coined sub

I agree. I wasn't aware of the term "neo-prog" until I joined PA and there certainly wasn't any talk of a new type of prog when Marillion were in their infancy, or in the days of post -Gabriel Genesis.


Me too. Hadn't heard the term before coming here. I was all just prog rock to me, to be honest, regardles of how it sounded and how the bands differed from each other or changed over time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2017 at 18:30
My band was just added to PA as Neo Prog last month, but the issue of whether my Mellotron or Hammond sounds were made by a 70's Mellotron or a 2 ton B3 vs a modern day Yamaha XF sampler playing actual samples of a Mellotron 400 & B3 never came up.  The technology of the keyboard producing the sounds didn't seem to matter.  My understanding of why I was eventually a fit for Neo was because I formed the band in the 80's and it was influenced by 70's symphonic.  Guilty as charged and proud of it LOL

As part of the PA Neo Prog description reads:

"While the Neo-Progressive genre initially consisted of artists exploring a modernized version of Symphonic Prog, these days artists coined as Neo-Progressive cover a multitude of musical expressions, where the common denominator is the inclusion - within a progressive rock framework - of musical elements developed just prior to and after 1980."

Seems like a pretty wide net Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2017 at 16:13
If a band uses DX7's & D50's, they're neo! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rushfan4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2017 at 15:39
It is my understanding from a previous conversation with a member of the Symphonic Team is that the main difference between bands being labeled as Neo bands instead of Symphonic bands has to do with the use/sound of the keyboards/strings.  Where as symphonic uses mellotrons and moogs and pianos and hammonds and violins and cellos for their strings, Neo uses that 80's synth sound generated by keyboards that are able to emulate the mellotrons and pianos and hammonds, etc.  There are probably more complicated reasons as well, but coming from somebody who attempted to suggest many, many bands for symphonic only to have them rejected and added to either Neo or Crossover, this was the understanding/conclusion that I came too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2017 at 15:17
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

What would be the antonym of neo-prog??

Old prog?  Classic prog?  The good stuff??


Paleo-reg (i.e. old-regressive)
"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don’t alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit the views" (Doctor Who - The Face of Evil, Jan 22, 1977).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Quinino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2017 at 14:57
Neo-Retro ?
Furious Nostalgia ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2017 at 14:40
What would be the antonym of neo-prog??

Old prog?  Classic prog?  The good stuff??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2017 at 06:55
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^yeah! actually the correct question would be: when did the term NEO-PROG actually come into existence? Then someone had to retroactively designate bands from the past to fit into the newly coined sub
I agree. I wasn't aware of the term "neo-prog" until I joined PA and there certainly wasn't any talk of a new type of prog when Marillion were in their infancy, or in the days of post -Gabriel Genesis.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2017 at 02:19
I think Genesis were the front runners in the so called neo-prog movement. You could argue that started with ATOTT, maybe even the Lamb, but for certain I would say neo really took off between 1977 - 1980 with albums like And then there were three, The UK debut album and maybe even Going for the One/Tormato by Yes.

The sound of changed and the approach to songwriting both musically and lyrically.
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