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The Start of the Neo Prog Era

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richardh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2017 at 15:43
I tend to think of Neo as just being a simpler form of symphonic prog rock. Genesis were already plotting the future away from mainstream prog when they recorded ATOTT. It was not necessary to be so complex to be successful and that was a message that got through to a number of young musicians at the time.
In any case many of the eighties bands just didn't have the chops to be like an early ELP or Yes so had to settle for this style anyway. IQ are one of my favourite bands and seemingly came from a very mixed up punk versus prog background which made them more interesting than most other bands of the era. Marillion were able to break through to commercial success thanks in the main to having a great showman who could 'sell' the music (and write the odd catchy tune along the way!) . I can't say that I took much notice of anyone else at the time although It Bites perhaps were the other notable band that surfaced during this time. Blatant 'pop prog' and they did very well indeed! Perhaps that was just what it was meant to be all along.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoeDent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2017 at 08:42
Genre labels are a necessary evil. Try describing, in words, how a band sounds without referencing any other band or any music that previously existed, and you'll see that this is the case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2017 at 09:31
Originally posted by RoeDent RoeDent wrote:

Genre labels are a necessary evil. Try describing, in words, how a band sounds without referencing any other band or any music that previously existed, and you'll see that this is the case.


Interesting though that no one really used very many genre labels until the mid to late 70's...before that there were a few big buckets like rock, soul, classical, etc.  Nowadays things have gotten so extreme and narrow it's silly.  A band can't just be considered, "metal", they're, "progressive funeral doom metal"...and what if a "progressive funeral doom metal" band went outside the narrow bounds and released a "neo prog" album back in 1975?  All the "I'm a progressive funeral doom metal" fanatics would blow a gasket and we'd have to incorporate that album into our debate in this thread LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2017 at 15:33
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

^Entirely instrumental, so definitely not neo-prog. 

why? neo-prog is not supposed to be instrumental?

I listened a while ago to an Italian band, all instrumental that I would definitely call neo-prog; did not like them that much, but they were neo. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2017 at 20:41
Originally posted by Kepler62 Kepler62 wrote:

Neo prog could have started as early as the early seventies with copycat bands like Triumvirat because when you really consider it most of the groundbreaking bands of progressive rock had stated their cases by 1974 or so.

Har!  Don't let Presdoug see that!!  

Not to mention the other famous copycat, Starcastle (friends of mine actually). 

I don't have a clue when "Neoprog" started, I never even heard of it before I started hanging out around here.  
If it is original bands that were heavily influenced by classic 1970s bands, I would argue there is no such thing as "neoprog," as it is simply a spectrum that spans time.   Even a band such as Flash could be considered as "neoprog" using some of the definitions on PA. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2017 at 21:21
^yeah! actually the correct question would be: when did the term NEO-PROG actually come into existence? Then someone had to retroactively designate bands from the past to fit into the newly coined sub
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2017 at 23:05
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by Kepler62 Kepler62 wrote:

Neo prog could have started as early as the early seventies with copycat bands like Triumvirat because when you really consider it most of the groundbreaking bands of progressive rock had stated their cases by 1974 or so.


Har! †Don't let Presdoug see that!! †

Not to mention the other famous copycat, Starcastle (friends of mine actually).†

I don't have a clue when "Neoprog" started, I never even heard of it before I started hanging out around here. †
If it is original bands that were heavily influenced by classic 1970s bands, I would argue there is no such thing as "neoprog," as it is simply a spectrum that spans time. † Even a band such as Flash could be considered as "neoprog" using some of the definitions on PA.†



Ah, Charles, as spot on as ever. Mind you, I had to leave the neo prog team for spouting this, and other similar, heretical opinions


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2017 at 02:19
I think Genesis were the front runners in the so called neo-prog movement. You could argue that started with ATOTT, maybe even the Lamb, but for certain I would say neo really took off between 1977 - 1980 with albums like And then there were three, The UK debut album and maybe even Going for the One/Tormato by Yes.

The sound of changed and the approach to songwriting both musically and lyrically.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2017 at 06:55
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^yeah! actually the correct question would be: when did the term NEO-PROG actually come into existence? Then someone had to retroactively designate bands from the past to fit into the newly coined sub
I agree. I wasn't aware of the term "neo-prog" until I joined PA and there certainly wasn't any talk of a new type of prog when Marillion were in their infancy, or in the days of post -Gabriel Genesis.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2017 at 14:40
What would be the antonym of neo-prog??

Old prog?  Classic prog?  The good stuff??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Quinino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2017 at 14:57
Neo-Retro ?
Furious Nostalgia ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2017 at 15:17
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

What would be the antonym of neo-prog??

Old prog? †Classic prog? †The good stuff??


Paleo-reg (i.e. old-regressive)
"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They donít alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit the views" (Doctor Who - The Face of Evil, Jan 22, 1977).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rushfan4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2017 at 15:39
It is my understanding from a previous conversation with a member of the Symphonic Team is that the main difference between bands being labeled as Neo bands instead of Symphonic bands has to do with the use/sound of the keyboards/strings.  Where as symphonic uses mellotrons and moogs and pianos and hammonds and violins and cellos for their strings, Neo uses that 80's synth sound generated by keyboards that are able to emulate the mellotrons and pianos and hammonds, etc.  There are probably more complicated reasons as well, but coming from somebody who attempted to suggest many, many bands for symphonic only to have them rejected and added to either Neo or Crossover, this was the understanding/conclusion that I came too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2017 at 16:13
If a band uses DX7's & D50's, they're neo! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2017 at 18:30
My band was just added to PA as Neo Prog last month, but the issue of whether my Mellotron or Hammond sounds were made by a 70's Mellotron or a 2 ton B3 vs a modern day Yamaha XF sampler playing actual samples of a Mellotron 400 & B3 never came up.  The technology of the keyboard producing the sounds didn't seem to matter.  My understanding of why I was eventually a fit for Neo was because I formed the band in the 80's and it was influenced by 70's symphonic.  Guilty as charged and proud of it LOL

As part of the PA Neo Prog description reads:

"While the Neo-Progressive genre initially consisted of artists exploring a modernized version of Symphonic Prog, these days artists coined as Neo-Progressive cover a multitude of musical expressions, where the common denominator is the inclusion - within a progressive rock framework - of musical elements developed just prior to and after 1980."

Seems like a pretty wide net Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2017 at 03:56
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^yeah! actually the correct question would be: when did the term NEO-PROG actually come into existence? Then someone had to retroactively designate bands from the past to fit into the newly coined sub

I agree. I wasn't aware of the term "neo-prog" until I joined PA and there certainly wasn't any talk of a new type of prog when Marillion were in their infancy, or in the days of post -Gabriel Genesis.


Me too. Hadn't heard the term before coming here. I was all just prog rock to me, to be honest, regardles of how it sounded and how the bands differed from each other or changed over time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2017 at 21:03
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

If a band uses DX7's & D50's, they're neo! LOL

I had the EXACT same thought!!  LOL!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WeepingElf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2017 at 13:19
I wouldn't tie it to those new synthesizers, though they of course influenced the sound greatly. A DX7 just doesn't sound like a Mellotron after all. Yet, I think influences from new wave and hard rock are just as important.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rednight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2017 at 13:31
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Saga seems to be a good contender for first neo prog band.
Don't get me going on that whole Saga thing (they blow!).

Edited by Rednight - October 17 2017 at 13:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote noni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2017 at 13:51
I like most genres of prog and to expand this has often confused me over the past few years.  The fact Neo came on the seen during the 80s period and explored newer symphonic bands,  I was happy and willing accept the new genre..  Now I'm finding there's too many genres,  to which leaves me confused to further my discovery of new music.  I have to admit the newer Rio/Avant genre I find too complex and difficult to get into.   But saying that,  I have a number of great artists that fall under that category, which I love too bits.

The only true test is to listen and buy..  Glad that we have bandcamp and YouTube to help us.  Big smile
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