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genesis ( duke )

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grantman View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 02 2017 at 14:06
One of my least liked albums,not because of musicianship ,which i must say is well above par especially phils drum fills but i just cannot fathom the idea that this is a concept record .All the songs for myself strictly speaking do not form a clear back story for instance TURN IT ON AGAIN,ALONE TONIGHT and MISUNDERSTANDING please don,t think i hate this album oppositely i really enjoy most of it especially DUCHESS and MAN OF OUR TIMES which i love immensely it is an odd one for my genesis catalog .Just wondering if anybody feels this is just weird or maybe it,s my lack of knowledge ,when it comes to DUKE thank you for reading by the way GENESIS is my favorite group of all time.

Edited by grantman - October 02 2017 at 14:09
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Frankh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Frankh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2017 at 14:11
Just about the last of the Genesis I could deal with.

This and some of Abacab.

For me at least, it was all downhill from there with Genesis and I.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2017 at 01:25
Duke is not a concept album.

It is, though, rather excellent.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2017 at 01:48
It's their last great album. It has weak points. Misunderstanding is unnecessary and Please Don't Ask I don't regard as a Genesis song as it's so far from what I consider the band to be.

BUT, it has amazing high points: Man of our times, Dukes Travels, Heathaze, Cul-de-sac, and the musicianship is fantastic.

Abacab by comparison, sounds like they turned up drunk to the studio, without any ideas and no producer, and just played what they felt at the time. It was a significant nosedive in quality. IMO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2017 at 02:40
I love Duke. Great album. Just spun it the other night and it still has the magic after 30 years of listening to it (though for a fair bunch of years I did move on from it.....)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cosmiclawnmower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2017 at 14:49
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

It's their last great album. It has weak points. Misunderstanding is unnecessary and Please Don't Ask I don't regard as a Genesis song as it's so far from what I consider the band to be.

BUT, it has amazing high points: Man of our times, Dukes Travels, Heathaze, Cul-de-sac, and the musicianship is fantastic.

Abacab by comparison, sounds like they turned up drunk to the studio, without any ideas and no producer, and just played what they felt at the time. It was a significant nosedive in quality. IMO.

I have to agree; I think both Misunderstanding and Please don't ask were try outs for Phil's solo lp.. Otherwise I think it has lots of strong points, more than 'and then there were three' in my opinion.

Abacab is a very different lp; it has one or two very good moments, a few good moments and some flat and crushingly dull moments but it was a definite change in the way they produced their music and not really for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SquonkHunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2017 at 19:34
I have a rather different history with this album. First off, when it came out in 1980 I never heard anything from it played on the radio except for Misunderstanding. OK, it's a harmless little pop-ish tune, sure, but it ain't MY Genesis!  So I pretty much completed the process of writing off Genesis that I had begun with their previous work, ATTWT. Same thing with it, too. Only heard the one single and thought that was the end of the Genesis I had known and loved. Turn the calendar forward about 40 years or so and I actually began to go out of my way to listen to the previously unheard tunes and, damn!, this ain't half bad. Still not up to Trick of the Tail  but not bad. Duke is where I can really tell the beginnings of the huge changes to come in Phil's vocals. He projects more power - and perhaps confidence, too - than he ever did before.

A lot of credit for guiding me to revisit those two albums in particular lie with YOU, the knowledgeable membership here at PA. This place has led me to discover so many things I had missed out on way back then and the surprising amount of newer Prog that is out there now. I never had the opportunity to say it before but DAMN, I LOVE THIS PLACE! Clap


Edited by SquonkHunter - October 05 2017 at 19:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote YESESIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2017 at 22:45
I like it a lot, but same goes for most Genesis albums. I like it more than Abacab but not more than the s/t(shapes) album, or even Invisible Touch. *ducks and takes cover* 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2017 at 02:58
unlike ATTWT (OK, didn't like FYFM, but the rest was different, but still OK of sorts), I hated Duke at first (the three "hits" sucked), and I didn't really give it a chance for about a decade, when I did like the un-hits (read, the rest of the album)

The reason why I didn't "try" more on Duke sooner was that Abacrap & Shapes were even worse.

Nowadays, I think ATTWT and Duke are about equal in terms of quality (but don't own either), far above what came after (the only good moment is the A-side of Shapes), but well behind all that came before 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2017 at 04:01
I like Duke a lot, it's the last album of theirs that deserves some praise, while there are some songs that stand out, the whole thing is listenable without skipping any songs (unlike what comes afterwards). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2017 at 15:47
Misunderstanding really was some kind of mistake.  I saw them on that tour and by and large like the album.  I also like Abacab.  After that my interest in the band starts to seriously wane.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2017 at 20:47
At least Banks still had his Hammond on this one (just - itís there on Dukeís Travels). Not that that means much
I just love that swirling sound he gets, replicated closely, via his Prophet synth, on Itís Gonna Get Better......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve Wyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2017 at 12:00
Supposedly there WAS a concept behind this album, but the record company talked them out of it. "Behind the Lines", "Duchess", "Guide Vocal", "Turn it on again", "Duke's Travels", and "Duke's End" were all supposed to run together, but they ran too long for one side of an LP. On that year's tour, the band played these six songs sequentially. The other songs on the album were not part of the concept.
 
As to what the concept was actually about, that remains open to debate, as the band have never elaborated (to my knowledge) and the lyrics are cryptic and not straight-forward.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Squonk19 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2017 at 15:30
A lot of interesting sentiments and views on this thread already. When I try to define my love of Genesis, I've always used 'Wind and Wuthering' as my end of an era moment - but then 'Seconds Out' was still a great listen and Steve is still there - although maybe lower in the mix than he should have been.

However, then you find tracks on ATTWT which you actually quite like, so the transition to Genesis-lite becomes a bit more blurred. Then there was 'Duke' - an album I was all set to disregard from listening to those more commercial tracks, but then you hear those supposedly conceptual tracks and it has some charm to it as well (supported by a surprisingly good 1980 Tour).

'Duke' definitely has its moments, but the ratio of prog rock to pop was on the wane and ABACAB completed the transition (even though I had a soft spot for the title track). Can't fathom the Duke concept and the link to the artwork....but I see I'm not alone! You do wonder what they'd have made had Hackett hung in there to temper the move to pop for a few more albums at least. Sigh........



Edited by Squonk19 - November 10 2017 at 15:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loftcolour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2017 at 13:24
If you had come to it fresh, in an alternative universe with no previous Genesis albums, would you rate it? I probably wouldn't have given it the time of day, although I quite like Duke's Travels. Mostly my reactions to it were just trying to hold on to what little was left of a band I loved.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Argo2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2017 at 13:49
I like Duke alot. It was pretty much my introduction to Genesis along with Abacab. Then I went back and discovered Trick of the Tail,Lamb, SEBTP...the rest is history
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2017 at 14:10
Part of the downward spiral that was announced loud and clear with FYFM.  Lot's to love here though, the beginning (Behind-Duchess-Guide) and end (D's Travels-D's End) are especially cool and I have to admit even though it's prog-pop I still think Turn it on Again is a great song Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rednight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2017 at 14:57
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:



Abacab by comparison, sounds like they turned up drunk to the studio, without any ideas and no producer, and just played what they felt at the time. It was a significant nosedive in quality. IMO.

"Wrong!" - John McLaughlin. You're obviously confusing it with We Can't Dance. Not only did that atrocity do the nosediving, but it accomplished the feat while diving off a 50-foot tower on the back of a horse named Rex. The documentary that accompanied it on the mid-2000's two disc set even attested to the fact that the boys really didn't have any ideas going into the studio.
"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon (?) it." - Eno
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omphaloskepsis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2017 at 15:26
Just purchased the entire 80's Genesis catalog for one of my wife's Christmas presents.   As long as she plays Duke and others in her car, we'll get along.   I've never heard any of the 80's Genesis albums.   Just the songs on the radio.  I have to cut this short...The last crescendo to The Music Box is about to crescendo.Wink

Edited by omphaloskepsis - December 06 2017 at 15:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bertolino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2017 at 15:32
The concept may be like what follows: Phil Collins was married (or at least formed a couple), with a canadian girl of the west coast, had a son and this is simply is break up album. Some songs are literate readings of his pain, of the loss of his son. Not all the songs would fit in the narrative , but the overall emotions and feelings turn to it. Even the cover picture depicts loneliness and sadness. This is the album that will always prevent me to be too harsh on poor Phil...

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