Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - A question about prog-related
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

A question about prog-related

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
Author
Message
BaldFriede View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 7407
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: A question about prog-related
    Posted: October 05 2017 at 07:37
I have an interesting question about prog-related: if a band has almost the same line-up as a certain prog band but does not play prog is it then prog-related? I think yes, but I would lkike to hear other opinions


BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
Back to Top
miamiscot View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 23 2014
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 592
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miamiscot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2017 at 08:19
I think one could make a case for that. The question is: does "prog-related" refer to the music or the musicians?
Back to Top
chopper View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Online
Points: 12539
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2017 at 08:31
I would say it depends on the music. If the members of, say, Yes got together and made a real out and out pop or jazz album, would we add them?
I guess this is why we haven't added Phil Collins the solo artist yet (have we?)
Back to Top
BaldFriede View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 7407
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2017 at 08:44
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

I would say it depends on the music. If the members of, say, Yes got together and made a real out and out pop or jazz album, would we add them?
I guess this is why we haven't added Phil Collins the solo artist yet (have we?)

On the other hand we have Asia in the database.

Also my question was NOT about solo albums of members of prog bands.


Edited by BaldFriede - October 05 2017 at 08:46


BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
Back to Top
Quinino View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: June 26 2011
Location: Portugal
Status: Online
Points: 2060
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Quinino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2017 at 09:11
^ Good question, but I can't see how to exclude solo artists from this debate, it's all about the same global criteria and how it should be applied, no?
"I love Sound, but I like Silence more !"
- Mark Hollis
Back to Top
Vompatti View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: October 22 2005
Location: Atlantis
Status: Offline
Points: 60642
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vompatti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2017 at 09:16
From the official definition: "3) Members of important progressive rock bands - Although most of the recorded solo output of artists like Greg Lake and David Gilmour falls more in a mainstream rock style, their contributions to progressive rock in their respective bands insures them a place in our prog-related genre."

So why isn't Phil Collins here exactly?
Back to Top
chopper View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Online
Points: 12539
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2017 at 09:16
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

I would say it depends on the music. If the members of, say, Yes got together and made a real out and out pop or jazz album, would we add them?
I guess this is why we haven't added Phil Collins the solo artist yet (have we?)

On the other hand we have Asia in the database.

Also my question was NOT about solo albums of members of prog bands.
Well, Asia are sort of proggy aren't they?
Back to Top
BaldFriede View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 7407
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2017 at 09:20
Originally posted by Quinino Quinino wrote:

^ Good question, but I can't see how to exclude solo artists from this debate, it's all about the same global criteria and how it should be applied, no?

There is a slight difference: You may have noted that I talked about line-up. A solo artist's line-up of an album does not necessarily consist mostly of prog musicians. And that's what the question is about.


BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
Back to Top
Vompatti View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: October 22 2005
Location: Atlantis
Status: Offline
Points: 60642
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vompatti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2017 at 09:21
Interestingly Japan are under prog-related, but Rain Tree Crow (exact same lineup, no more proggy) are under Crossover Prog, and I'm assuming both are here mostly because of a few of David Sylvian's solo albums.
Back to Top
SteveG View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Brexit Empire
Status: Offline
Points: 8047
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2017 at 09:54
Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

From the official definition: "3) Members of important progressive rock bands - Although most of the recorded solo output of artists like Greg Lake and David Gilmour falls more in a mainstream rock style, their contributions to progressive rock in their respective bands insures them a place in our prog-related genre."

So why isn't Phil Collins here exactly?
One word: Sussudio.
"If everything feels like its under control, then you're not going fast enough." - Mario Andretti.
Back to Top
Quinino View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: June 26 2011
Location: Portugal
Status: Online
Points: 2060
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Quinino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2017 at 09:54
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by Quinino Quinino wrote:

^ Good question, but I can't see how to exclude solo artists from this debate, it's all about the same global criteria and how it should be applied, no?

There is a slight difference: You may have noted that I talked about line-up. A solo artist's line-up of an album does not necessarily consist mostly of prog musicians. And that's what the question is about.


OK, but on the other hand the driving force behind the solo album is the artist (composer/performer/producer?) member of the original prog band
So my argument stands - though I understand it was not your initial idea to be so comprehensive in your question

In the end what should count is the music but exceptions already exist and IMO rightly so - it's better to risk being over-inclusive than to exclude the borderline cases in the name of some "purity" conception.


"I love Sound, but I like Silence more !"
- Mark Hollis
Back to Top
Quinino View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: June 26 2011
Location: Portugal
Status: Online
Points: 2060
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Quinino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2017 at 09:57
^ Except PC, as SteveG cleverly noticed LOL

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

One word: Sussudio.
"I love Sound, but I like Silence more !"
- Mark Hollis
Back to Top
Vompatti View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: October 22 2005
Location: Atlantis
Status: Offline
Points: 60642
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vompatti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2017 at 10:08
Originally posted by Quinino Quinino wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

One word: Sussudio.
A brilliant pop song, and actually quite complex underneath when you really listen to it, that bass line alone is worthy of the eclectic crossover prog label.
Back to Top
kenethlevine View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Prog-Folk Team

Joined: December 06 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 3121
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2017 at 10:12
I've never quite been able to understand prog related.  My impression is that prog related bands tend to be well known.  While an obscure band may be "prog related" in the style they play and their influences, they might not get onto PA even in the PR category because they just aren't influential enough
Back to Top
progaardvark View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Sea of Peas
Status: Offline
Points: 10778
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2017 at 10:46
Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

From the official definition: "3) Members of important progressive rock bands - Although most of the recorded solo output of artists like Greg Lake and David Gilmour falls more in a mainstream rock style, their contributions to progressive rock in their respective bands insures them a place in our prog-related genre."

So why isn't Phil Collins here exactly?
 
That's a point I've always wondered about. Phil had issued some dreadful stuff, particularly the No Jacket Required album and everything he released from 1993 onward. His remaining three studio efforts did have some artsy moments scattered about on them. But nonetheless, the last sentence of section 3 does apply here. A caveat should have been added to section 3 if you really wanted to avoid the "Collins case."
 
Even the final section applies: "7) Common sense - Nitpicking over the above listed criteria is not necessarily the correct way to evaluate a band for prog-related. Sometimes you just have to use some common sense and look at the big picture. A very good way to describe prog-related would be to imagine an exhaustive book that covered the history of progressive rock. Would such a book include references to led Zeppelin's 'Stairway to Heaven', David Bowie's 'The Man Who Sold the World' or Queen's 'Bohemian Rhapsody'? Probably so."
 
If I were to write an "exhaustive book that covered the history of progressive rock," Phil Collins' solo career would be covered. It really is tied in with Genesis' history from 1981 until Phil left the band. It's not pretty, but neither were many other prog bands' 1980s output.
 
And I am trying to be impartial here. For the record, I can't stand his solo stuff.
 
My apologies for derailing the topic. I'm fully aware it has come up in the past.  Embarrassed
Aardvark, aardvark? I smell dryer sheets.
Superluminal Pachyderm
Back to Top
Tom Ozric View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Online
Points: 11875
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2017 at 11:07
Face Value is stronger than Abacab (IMHO)......
Back to Top
Guldbamsen View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin

Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Dolly Parton
Status: Offline
Points: 19866
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2017 at 11:52
A couple of things:

1) To get into prog related these days (and in the past 5 years or so) the artist needs to have influenced the prog scene on a large scale. Somehow put their mark on the genre yet without being fully fledged prog because....

2) Prog related is not prog.

3) The sub used to be a dumping ground for members' fave bands (and everyone could add bands as they saw fit) and indeed acts that sounded "sorta proggy". Which is THE main reasons we have so many 'is X band really prog?' or different varieties where everything gets mumbled up in these muddy and extremely complex discussion filled to the brim with 'if Tori Amos is here then why not Sade?'.

4) Solo Phil Collins is not in any way influential to any part of the prog scene as far as I know...which is why he isn't here.

5) Many of us, including myself, would prefer scrapping the whole sub and be done with it as it generally seems to yield more inane, often heated and frustrating genre bending discussions rather than pull people in from afar - sneakily getting them into pork via the backdoor. It doesn't really work that way though.
But erasing an entire sub also means deleting the many fine reviews it holds and that would be a real shame imo.


Edited by Guldbamsen - October 05 2017 at 12:08
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams
Back to Top
noni View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 558
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote noni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2017 at 13:56
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

I would say it depends on the music. If the members of, say, Yes got together and made a real out and out pop or jazz album, would we add them?
I guess this is why we haven't added Phil Collins the solo artist yet (have we?)

On the other hand we have Asia in the database.

Also my question was NOT about solo albums of members of prog bands.

Asia have made a quite a few prog tracks.


Edited by noni - October 05 2017 at 14:02
Back to Top
noni View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 558
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote noni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2017 at 14:00
I wish you guys would google progressive music and look up under Wikipedia...  Progressive music has various time signatures.  Not just one like pop music. Smile
Back to Top
kenethlevine View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Prog-Folk Team

Joined: December 06 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 3121
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2017 at 14:32
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Face Value is stronger than Abacab (IMHO)......
totally Big smile
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.01
Copyright ©2001-2014 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.664 seconds.