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Prog rock collaboration time / cancelled

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Davesax1965 View Drop Down
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    Posted: November 28 2017 at 06:04
Well, perhaps. ;-)

Hi folks - a quick question, would any prog rock bands out there - UK / World - like to collaborate on a musical project ? This is for amusement only, and I'm going to suggest it's made available as a free download to forum members. 

For those who don't know me, pop over to 
https://brotherhoodofthemachine.bandcamp.com/

I'm a studio musician who releases electronic music in the style of Tangerine Dream / early Hawkwind. As well as keyboards (note two modular synths and many more analogue ones below) I also play guitar, bass, sax, percussion and flute. I'm more "old school" prog and not interested in prog metal, to be honest. I am ancient and withered and 52.

Since it's most likely there won't be any local prog musicians in my area (Macclesfield, north of England / end of the world) I'll be quite happy doing this over the internet. Got a full DAW set up using mainly Reaper. 

If you're interested, drop me a PM and let's see if we're a match. 

Cheers
Dave




Edited by Davesax1965 - December 08 2017 at 06:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2017 at 06:38
No takers, I'm going to cancel this as I can't keep coming back to check. 

Bandcamp for me ! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jayem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2017 at 13:27
It sucks to see that kind of promising announcement stay unanswered... Whole studio, available enthousiastic experienced multi-instrumentist, etc. Now even a seemingly close soul brother, say a TD / Hawkind fan with a similar status (number of supporters, achievements, credibility etc) wouldn't feel that much at ease. In that regard I'be more likely to say yes to Dennis because I trust a certain percentage of what he does will really please me, but even then I'd send him this or that part and he wouldn't be pleased and would tell me what to do, which would actually be something he can play himself so what's the point in collaborating, etc.

The most frustration proof way here is, given your advanced audio processing tools you'd be capable of working out something you enjoy with (part of/very, very (...) small part of) whatever one would send you, if necessary there's no way one would recognize the initial file. You'd be happy even if the "collaborator" didn't enjoy the result and doesn't want his name mentioned except maybe in the thanks.

In that regard I'd recommend anyone who'd accept that risk of an unpleasant result to send you a file !

Otherwise, the more you know what you want already, the more a miracle is needed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2017 at 10:26
Hi Jayem, I got a reply from someone off board - bass player. Very good, but I've got something like 20 oscillators kicking out bass, so without very careful mixing, bass gets lost in the mix. I'll have a chat with him and let's see what we can do.

I am a very, very easy person to work with, by the way, done lots of jazz collabs before. 

That was it for replies, though. So it appears, from the last two collaboration threads, that here is just not the place to go to collaborate with prog rock musicians.

That's sort of worrying, don't you think ? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meltdowner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2017 at 10:37
I didn't reply for the same reason Jean-Marie stated. I'm very much into TD but seeing that you play every instrument I play and more, I don't know what I would bring to the table.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2017 at 08:07
Creativity. ;-)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2017 at 08:09
PS Ignore the glitches, but !!! This is all live. Four sequencers, modular synth. You set the sequencers up, turn a rotary switch, it plays a sequence. Different sequence ? Change the switch position. Soon to be eight sequencers. It needs a bit of work, but - Tangerine Dream time. Live. 

You then just solo over the top. ;-))))

https://soundcloud.com/brotherhoodofthemachine/ricoshed

Edited by Davesax1965 - December 21 2017 at 08:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2017 at 08:10
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

So it appears, from the last two collaboration threads, that here is just not the place to go to collaborate with prog rock musicians.

That's sort of worrying, don't you think ? 
 
Not necessarily.
a) people can be prog fans without being musicians.
b) I'm a musician but I don't have the setup to record and exchange music over the internet. I'm not really interested in doing so either, I'd rather being playing in a studio or at gigs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2017 at 08:13
I think it's incredibly worrying when a prog rock website doesn't attract people who want to play with each other. 

If you're all consumers and there's no producers, yep, it's worrying. 

As the "free music" thread shows, stalled forever at page 63. 

Nor are we just discussing you, Chopper. Look at the big picture. One one (tiny) music forum I was on, I organised two free compilation albums (no charge) - a lot of people contributed music, I did free mastering and mixing and released the albums on Bandcamp. I also did the same on a small Facebook group. These were not "musician exclusive" forums, they had very small memberships but a few people got together and we co-ordinated a release. 

It says at the top of the page "Your Ultimate Prog Rock Resource" and I notice that there's a musicians' section here. 

So, to say it again

Worrying. 

Edited by Davesax1965 - December 21 2017 at 08:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mechanicalflattery Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2017 at 09:44
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:


If you're all consumers and there's no producers, yep, it's worrying. 
 

Given that we all seem to regularly find music to consume, the producer shortage doesn't seem to have kicked in yet. If anything, contemporary prog is heavily inundated with artists that direly need listeners; it doesn't take a quite deal of searching on this site to find thousands upon thousands of bands releasing new music. Whether any of this music is any good is another matter altogether, but the marketplace for music has never been more oversaturated. Besides, plenty of the forum-dwellers here are musicians; they simply don't have the time, means, or inclination for working with you at present. I wish you luck in finding collaborators; your passion and knowledge for music is staggering, and you've got one hell of a setup here. But please don't extrapolate one forum's slight inactivity into an indictment of general artistic trends; one forum cannot be expected to directly replicate your experiences at another forum. 
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2017 at 09:52
That's a facepalm moment, there. Are we on the same forum ? ;-)

I'm not even going to begin to try answering that, and no, I'm not extrapolating anything. I am observing an absolute lack of response where on other forums or via Bandcamp there would be one. 

Regarding "saturation of music", let's conflate that a little. That means that there are a lot of musicians out there, and a lot of musicians do collaborative work over the internet. Take it from me, I've been doing jazz collab and session sax work over the internet for at least 7 years. 

So I'm not extrapolating from a single example here. I'm observing. Based on knowledge and not opinion. 



Edited by Davesax1965 - December 21 2017 at 10:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2017 at 10:09
As a PS, Cascata - nice album, Meltdowner. I see someone off here supplied the artwork. ;-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2017 at 10:14
Since my good friend Jayem mentioned me in his earlier post, I thought I'd pop in and leave a comment.  I've run into many musicians on PA so it's not that we aren't here.  In fact, I'd venture that of all musical genres, prog (and by extension PA) has one of the highest percentages of musicians in it's ranks of fanatical devotees.  Speaking for myself though, I haven't collaborated with anyone musically since the early 90's by choice.  I prefer to put all efforts into my one man band projects...not that collaboration is a bad thing, it's just not my thing LOL

That said, roadblocks to collaboration on PA could be a matter of technology (as Chopper mentioned) or that collaborating with a multi-instrumentalist is often seen as Sam & Jayem have said, "what can I possibly add?"  I'd feel exactly the same way if I was into collaboration and saw your invitation.  What can I add to Dave's project that he can't already do for himself?  Another problem could be the traffic on PA is drastically down these days due to all the captcha drama Unhappy  

Anyway, just because you haven't yet hooked a fish doesn't mean the pond is dead.  I wouldn't cut bait just yet, but leave your line in the water and see what happens Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vompatti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2017 at 11:27
You might have better luck if you had someone specific in mind you could see yourself collaborating with. All of the collaborations I've been a part of and all of the other ones between PA members I'm aware of as well have been initiated either in the Shred Room or via PM.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2017 at 11:47
^ Edit (see above). I wrote this before seeing that comment, and have noticed the same. I was about to edit to mention PMing people. The more people you are friends with and know well at the site (especially amongst the many musicians) the easier it is, of course. I am not part of the Shred, but that seems a terrific place to bond with people. For us older people, perhaps the Shed.

--------------------------------------------------------

Many people at this site who choose to give of their time and collaborate do so in the interests of improving the archive (adding or suggesting bands, evaluating bands, writing reviews, preparing bios, adding albums...). There have been many composers and musicians here, and we have had various collaborative music projects (some of that has been organised through the Shred Room and may be quite amateurish and done more for fun than anything). Many of the the people who find time to produce music will likely only find the time for their own projects rather than seeking to collaborate with other forum members.

This forum has slowed down considerably. Some people lost interest generally, other people left because of Captcha. Many of our resident music producers are not around.

I think in a smaller forum sometimes it's easier to find people to collaborate with since the group is often tighter-knit. One may get to know, trust and want to work with and care about people more. I'm not much of a musician and have only contributed to one album (and that was some lyrics, which were embarrassingly bad but mostly reworked by the composer). While making music is not my thing and I have collaborated here in other ways, at the small forums I belonged to I did find myself working with individuals who I really connected with via similar interests and sense of humour on some creative projects that had nowt to do with the site where we met.

I wouldn't be too discouraged here that one doesn't get a response to such a query over ten or so days considering that there are so many topics that come up here, so many forums, and it's quite a limited number of people here who post a lot. I tend to notice topics via the Latest Forum Posts function, but I don't visit here every day.

Were I not rusty when it comes to playing (main instrument is the trumpet) I would still feel out of my depth in offering to help. I also don't have the technology set up to know how to go about things. Nor would I know from your initial post quite what you're looking for except in fairly vague terms (maybe if I were a musician I would "get it" more, especially if I had already done such collaborations). More specifics would help I would think, if possible. While we have had many people who can play instruments and quite a few who have produced music, first and foremost this site is archival and is more likely to attract people looking to discover music than make it. And the forums seem to act mostly for wasting time. Endless polls and useless comments, and more than the fair share of that is coming from me.

I do wish people would collaborate more here outside of doing things specifically for this site which rather feels to be fizzling out to me. I would like to get together with people to make a Podcast not about music or to creatively write together (there was a collaboration through PA of people's writings so it does happen here), but other sites would better suit my interests as music is not my main passion (personally wish there was more discussion here about things other than music, but of course it is primarily a music forum).

Anyway, all that rambling aside, hope you find some people that you gel with. I'd try posting in the Shred to solicit support, but that's me speaking as an amateur. Many of the most active members here spend a lot of time in Just For Fun. I know this a pretty stupid and unhelpful post which I did not think out in advance. Good luck.



Edited by Logan - December 21 2017 at 12:06
"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They donít alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit the views" (Doctor Who - The Face of Evil, Jan 22, 1977).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jayem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2017 at 15:24
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

So it appears, from the last two collaboration threads, that here is just not the place to go to collaborate with prog rock musicians.

As much as your first post didn't feel to me as the ideal icebreaker, collaboration is more than possible here !

 A collection of to-be-played-upon tracks are excellent baits. Further comments on Soundlcoud.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2018 at 06:22
Hi Jayem, thanks for the reply - I'm actually using session musicians from now on. Only way to get it done !!

Logan - thanks for the post. Yes, unfortunately, the site is slowing down massively. I don't think it's down to captchas, to be honest, I think it's that it's becoming so irrelevant, with endless polls and "Are the Carpenters Prog ? " posts. People seem to be posting crap as a knee jerk reaction - they seem to think that they have to post something. 

Really, it seems to me that what's needed is a complete site re-think. As you said, a smaller site would be more relevant, but, sadly, my experience of Prog Archives is that it's a place people to go to find free music. The "free music" thread has virtually died, along with quite a few bands. I get very little footfall on Bandcamp from here and there are seemingly very few musicians here, too. How much longer I'm around on here is frankly, debatable. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Quinino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2018 at 06:54
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:



... As you said, a smaller site would be more relevant, but, sadly, my experience of Prog Archives is that it's a place people to go to find free music...



We should not confound "The Site" (database, I mean - the true archives) with the Forum, though complementary they are quite different realities with  separate lives.
I get my kicks with the knowledge I acquire from the DB (and try to help so others can get it too) and use the forum sparingly - I guess we have to level our expectations with what the cruel, hard virtual-reality has to offer hahaha

"Before beauty disappears entirely from the earth, it will go on existing for a while by accident" - Milan Kundera
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