Which King Crimson is most like Yes |
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moshkito
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Posted: August 13 2018 at 11:42 |
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I find this strange ... just because this bass is used, or that mellotron, or that organ, all of a sudden it is supposed to sound like YES, when it is not even close, even in the lyrics and general composition. And this is the hard part for me ... just because the mellotron was used, it did not make them all sound like the Moody Blues ... but then we can say that is sounded like YES, or that ... the cat pooped in the litter box and it smells! Listening to a piece of music, for ME, is not about does it sound like this or that ... it is about the way the instruments get used and work together to create a vision for the music, even if there are no lyrics to give us an "idea" (what a crock that is!) ... the music must live on its own, not because of someone else ... heck, so it becomes like saying that Tchaikovsky ripped off Beethoven (or vice versa) because he used 24 violins ... and Xmany of something else! Are we talking music?
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Mortte
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^I think it was also really great Iommi went back to Sabbath, what a great albums they made! And I think Barre was the right one in Jethro.
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Dellinger
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^ I wonder how it could have worked out... Fripp in Yes, and Steve Howe in ELP. However, we do know the way those bands turned out is great, and I can't imagine it coming out any better.
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Mortte
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cstack3
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ABWH featured bassist Tony Levin, who used his King Crimson rig (Music Man bass and drumstick "funky fingers").
Otherwise, I agree with "apples and oranges," although Prince Rupert Awakes was a nice break from KC tradition! Fripp was very close to becoming guitarist for Yes when Banks was booted out, I'm glad that didn't happen because the ego battles would have been epic!
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Mortte
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I think there was lots in common specially in the beginning of prog in 1969-76. To me most different bands from the prog greats of those days are ELP and Gentle Giant, although ELP had specially Lakeīs songs that reminds other prog of that time.
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Logan
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I can hear some Yesishness about that. Are there particular Yes songs that you would relate Walking on Air too? For me, like various others, the one that immediately sprang to my mind is Prince Rupert Awakes off The Lizard suite (not just because Jon Anderson is singing on it, but stylistically too).
While some seem to claim that Yes and King Crimson never have similarities, to me that's a very strange stance. Lizard, particularly Prince Rupert Awakes has similarities to Yes Starship Trooper and say "Everydays" to my ears. I think early Crimson albums have music that is easily comparable to early Yes -- particularly to Yes' Time and Word and The Yes Album as well as music off the Yes debut. I hear similarities to Yes in some music in Islands. Other people in the thread have established other similarities. It's interesting how people make and fail to make associations. The music of Yes and and Crimson are not of totally different worlds, and have had some shared personnel. With me, I most recognise similarities between the two bands during the 1969 to 1971 period (especially with pre-Fragile Yes), but I also hear similarities with some later Yes music. This is a bit of strange thread to read through due to a lack of dialectic across various posts. I see a fair amount of thesis and antithesis without synthesis. One will claim, say, Prince Rupert Awakes, another will claim none etc. That said, I think there are some really thoughtful posts in this thread that make various interesting associations, and there is some good discussion. |
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Just a fanboy passin' through.
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condor
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Finally thought of it
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Poseidon's Wake
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^this
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Tom Ozric
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Prince Rupert Awakes ??
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Mortte
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What is much harder to say to me is Steve Howe better than Peter Banks? Specially when some great person has just put the live tracks from first Yes in youtube, there you can see Peter has been also quite a guitarist!
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Dellinger
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One song in which Alan's drumming really shines for me is on Wakeman's Anne of Cleves. However, in general yeah, Bruford is just in another level. It would be like comparing Howe and Rabin... yeah, sure Rabin can play fast and virituos and whatever, but there's just something missing that only Howe can give the band. Or like comparing Jon Anderson with Benoit David and Jon Davison. There's a reason the CttE line-up was so unique and un-repeatable. |
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Frenetic Zetetic
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Bruford is my favorite drummer of all time. White is no Bruford, but he almost makes you feel like Bill never left. He was the perfect fit for Yes after CtTE to my ears!
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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Mortte
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Well, I think Neil Peart would have succeed better in Yes after Bruford. But that time he was completely unknown (although he was in London 1970). But I am not complaining: White has done great work in Yes, what I have just said White isnīt even near of the greatness of Bruford. But great enough to make Yes music great.
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dr wu23
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Regarding the OP question.....none.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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Frenetic Zetetic
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I was going to say...Alan White might be the only person who can put his feet in Bruford's shoes in terms of Yes. That guy is so underrated and under appreciated for the level of intensity he not only had to follow up on, but managed to maintain and even top on Relayer!
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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moshkito
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Hi, I'm not sure I like to compare musicians ... it simply isn't fair, and someone thinking that this has more than that, or less than that, is like saying ... one's wee wee just isn't enough for the job ... get a bigger bass guitar? ... get a louder guitar lead? ... get a drummer with more toms? There are distances and deserts between Chris Squire and Tony Levin or Greg Lake, or even John Wetton, whose progressive roots, in bands like FAMILY were also very strong and interesting, although a bit strange, but they came alive with the right folks around him ... in King Crimson. I, specially, find the comparison between Alan White and Bill Bruford. They are two completely different drummers, and while I thought that AW was more rock oriented, and Bruford more jazz'y oriented with touch, I think that what YES needed at the time, was a more rock'y edge to help bring about their new material, and make sure it was enjoyed and played on radio (FM radio in the USA), at the time, when something more jazz'y would be likely to not get as much attention, since things at the time 1972, were going towards rock, bigger and louder. And in the end, Bill joining King Crimson, was actually an outstanding fit for him, and I wish he had not retired and be one of the drummers in the current 3 drummer setup in KC, and help blow out the audience ... and show the fans ... this is about MUSIC ... not mechanics or gymnastics between drummers! Surprisingly enough the one drummer that would likely suffer the most in that idea would be Gavin Harrison, who is likely too mechanical and mathematical for Bill's taste, but it would allow Bill to do touches and percussions on the side. As for guitar ... both very distance, although my thoughts are that Steve Howe solo's way too much and fortunately, it does not hurt the music of YES, and has become a strong staple of it, and this is something that Robert Fripp does not do ... for him, it's about the composition as a whole and its inter-mechanics and subtleties ... and I think that Steve Howe depended on Chris Squire to add these "touches" to make the rest of the music more interesting, and of course, it all worked well and we remember almost all of the pieces they did. In King Crimson, I think this would only happen in rehearsal, and it would probably end up being used in a new piece somewhere down the line ...
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Mortte
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 11 2016 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 5538 |
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^I am not trained, professional musician, but I have played some instruments since the age of four or five. I claim (you can of course call me fool) I can hear who has skills, also who has skills, creativity and almost genius in his playing. Yes, Alan White is skillfull, but he just havenīt got same creativity and genius as Bruford. He didnīt learn whole Yes catalog in a three days, just the songs that was on that tour. Of course he anyway managed well, but in Yessongs and also later lives you easily hear, how Bruford just played those old Yes classics so much better. And yes, he did fine job in Relayer, but if comparing the drum parts of Relayer & Larksī Tongue I hear very great difference (although Larksīis my favourite from those two also other way).
Geddy is also much better than Chris. These all four musicians do their stuff in a great way, but itīs a fact that some musicians are better than others. You donīt find the differences easily, but hear it, when somebodyīs have to continue after so great drummer as Bill (I think heīs the worldīs best). I think I would have hear the same, if Chris had to go into Rush after Geddy has left it. If you donīt understand what I am saying, then this is useful to continue.
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awaken77
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Where is this coming from? Alan White learned all Yes catalog in 3 days, when he was hired. and Bruford didnt play in Relayer. imho they are equal in terms of greatness. just different. it the same as Chris Squire vs Geddy Lee or apples vs oranges |
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Guldbamsen
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I knew this had to be a condor thread. Who else asks these kinds of questions?
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