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Poll Question: Who do you like?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
22 [32.84%]
33 [49.25%]
12 [17.91%]
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Dellinger View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 12 2017 at 21:13
Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Try meditating to this:



Anyway, I love both VdGG, especially for, as I've said before, The Least we Can Do Is Wave to Eachother -- I find Refugees and Out of My Book lovely, and I love TD. That said, I vote for TD. I used to only really love the first four albums by TD and the, I think really excellent Ricochet which I recommend you close your eyes to and give a spin at some time, but I've grown to like far more by the act.

Hopefully you will come up with a VdGG songlist that you like (was going to suggest that too) even if you don't like full albums.

Geez you really do know your stuff, that song was wonderful for meditating. And I may have to try VdGG again, there's at least hope for them lol. King Crimson, IQ, Opeth.. I don't think so. Magma I want to like, but oh well. And this Tangerine Dream, if they have more stuff like THAT... I'm so in. Thank you for posting that. 

I'll have to listen to Ricochet album some time. 


One more song you might want to check out from King Crimson: "Prince Rupert Awakes", with Jon Anderson on vocals. Still, not beautiful lyrics there, but the tone is... mockingly joyful, I guess. And for non-serious stuff from VdGG, you might want to check out Killer.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 12 2017 at 22:14
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

Tangerine Dream easily for me.  And "Cloudburst Flight" has to be one of my top 20 tracks of all time
VDGG is just not my thing.  And I just don't think IQ are good at all


I'm not a big TD fan, but Cloudburst Flight and all of Phaedra are amazing Clap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2017 at 03:03
Tangerine Dream
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2017 at 07:25
Originally posted by Progosopher Progosopher wrote:

  Each of these bands deserve some attention but that does not mean you have to like them. 

This nails it. I like all of them but I'd hardly describe any of them as "having something for everybody". Rather all three have a rather idiosyncratic approach and style with strong love-or-hate elements, despite the variety of things they produced.
I can only say that it took me some time to get into VDGG's music and Peter Hammill's voice and I'm not alone in that - so it's definitely recommended to give them another chance and then maybe even more. Similar things hold for TD's early work, particularly Zeit (once I liked this least now most). The first TD album I heard was Rubycon, and this is probably one of my top 3 influential albums of all time; it opened a whole new world of music appreciation to me. On the other hand there is quite some variation in quality in TD's work; there is definitely a number of things (particularly from later than 1985) that would've made me wonder what all the fuss is about, had I come across them first.
I can't really assess your taste but I can imagine that Edgar Froese's two best solo efforts, Epsilon in Malaysian Pale and Stuntman, could be up with TD's best for you.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2017 at 10:10
VDGG
Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2017 at 11:43
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

I can't really assess your taste but I can imagine that Edgar Froese's two best solo efforts, Epsilon in Malaysian Pale and Stuntman, could be up with TD's best for you.

Stuntman is Froese's best solo record, IMO (though ALL of them are great). It's a marvelous listen from beginning to end, and it's been my favorite of his since I first heard it. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2017 at 11:55
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by Progosopher Progosopher wrote:

  Each of these bands deserve some attention but that does not mean you have to like them. 

This nails it. I like all of them but I'd hardly describe any of them as "having something for everybody". Rather all three have a rather idiosyncratic approach and style with strong love-or-hate elements, despite the variety of things they produced.
I can only say that it took me some time to get into VDGG's music and Peter Hammill's voice and I'm not alone in that - so it's definitely recommended to give them another chance and then maybe even more. Similar things hold for TD's early work, particularly Zeit (once I liked this least now most). The first TD album I heard was Rubycon, and this is probably one of my top 3 influential albums of all time; it opened a whole new world of music appreciation to me. On the other hand there is quite some variation in quality in TD's work; there is definitely a number of things (particularly from later than 1985) that would've made me wonder what all the fuss is about, had I come across them first.
I can't really assess your taste but I can imagine that Edgar Froese's two best solo efforts, Epsilon in Malaysian Pale and Stuntman, could be up with TD's best for you.


"Ramble chat, let's have a ramble chat.
We'll focus first on this, and then on that"
(Adam Buxton's podcast song).

No one has to like anything, nor can everyone like everything. I take that as a given. It is hyperbole to say "having something for everybody."

I would posit that there's pretty much something for most every taste in these acts at least when it comes to the kinds of people who would join this site and wish to explore diverse music. In the case of John (aka YESESIS), he is interested enough to do this poll and has enjoyed music that has been mentioned in this thread. I've done much the same before. While I'm not everybody of course, in every case someone has taken the time has found something that appealed to me in acts that I didn't like. One might say that perhaps I am not the most discerning of individuals, but I like that people try to keep an open mind and open ears and are willing to change opinions.

I sometimes find that music that does not appeal to me at one time will appeal at another time. I love Zeit, but I didn't immediately like all of it, and at another time in my life it would not have appealed. It helps when you find another act in the category that you like. Edgar Froese's Epsilon in Malaysian Pale was one of the albums that first did it for me and opened my ears up to more music (incidentally, I far prefer the original LP when it comes to that album).. My tastes have expanded as I've been exposed to more types of music (new neural pathways are created as we are exposed to new things -- we can't help but change through experience).

I think most who have reasonably diverse tastes in music represented at PA would find music to like by all three acts -- even if it just one piece of music, or even just one phrase, or even a note played in a certain way that can resonate with you. That can lead to liking more -- sometimes it just takes a musical moment to latch onto before new avenues open up. "I was totally hating this song until that G# which totally blew my mind."

If one doesn't like Hammill's vocals, well perhaps a VdGG instrumental such as Theme One (which was actually written by George Martin and is not really representative of VdGG) might appeal. If Godbluff doesn't appeal to one, that doesn't mean that there is no chance that the Aerosol grey machine doesn't appeal. I could imagine VdGG songs like "Out of My Book" , "Refugees" and much of "House With No Door" appealing to people who don't like, say, "Lenmmings". VdGG is quite diverse. John mentioned not liking the negativity in the lyrics of VdGG, and that helps for recommendations since then we should be focusing on things that are more upbeat, less morose and more fun. If the problem for someone who has heard Tangerine Dream is that it seems to lack excitement, well, maybe something like "Cloudburst Flight" off Force Majeure will appeal.

In the case of people who are dismissive of musical acts, often it's because they didn't hear the right music for them or they didn't hear it at the right time. It helps to be in the right mindset and for the music to resonate with whatever kinds of music you are into at the time. I love Tangerine Dream and VdGG, but I don't want to listen to them every day. Some days I just want Ennio Morricone, at other times it's Beethoven, at other times it might be Cream, and at other times I want jazz or I want folk or electronic music. I like music that fits a mood and different things excite me at different times. I'm a bit obsessive. Recently I was just wanting to listen to Matt Berry and the Wicker Man soundtrack (for the original film).

It's true that there is so much music out there that I don't feel the need to try to like something, but I do like to be exposed to diverse music, and the more music I appreciate the more I might be able to find in common with other people at the site. I like having a fairly informed opinion about a wide range of music and topics, and I like connecting with as much of this community as possible, so I like to find things in common. I am interested in getting to know better what other people like and finding that I can have some appreciation for that. There is a social element to it. I've been negative about music in the past based on a not full enough understanding of the musical expression, or ignorance through not knowing enough of the discography, and then I've explored more deeply because I regretted being critical and have found that there is music that I like in that category or by that artist. That helps to become more open-minded and tolerant, and in the case of a fairly cynical person like me, its helped me to be more respectful and less sure of my opinions. It can be humbling. It can he really cool when your mind is changed about something and when you discover something you like that you held in low regard, or just didn't like. But I digress. I do like to ramble on sometimes.

"Leaves are falling all around
It's time I was on my way
Thanks to you I'm much obliged
For such a pleasant stay
But now it's time for me to go
The autumn moon lights my way"
(Led Zeppelin - "Ramble on").

The first step on the road to wisdom is the recognition of one's own ignorance.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2017 at 15:10
IQ, for the XXIst century
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2017 at 17:01
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

"Ramble chat, let's have a ramble chat.
We'll focus first on this, and then on that"
(Adam Buxton's podcast song).

No one has to like anything, nor can everyone like everything. I take that as a given. It is hyperbole to say "having something for everybody."

I would posit that there's pretty much something for most every taste in these acts at least when it comes to the kinds of people who would join this site and wish to explore diverse music. In the case of John (aka YESESIS), he is interested enough to do this poll and has enjoyed music that has been mentioned in this thread. I've done much the same before. While I'm not everybody of course, in every case someone has taken the time has found something that appealed to me in acts that I didn't like. One might say that perhaps I am not the most discerning of individuals, but I like that people try to keep an open mind and open ears and are willing to change opinions.

I sometimes find that music that does not appeal to me at one time will appeal at another time. I love Zeit, but I didn't immediately like all of it, and at another time in my life it would not have appealed. It helps when you find another act in the category that you like. Edgar Froese's Epsilon in Malaysian Pale was one of the albums that first did it for me and opened my ears up to more music (incidentally, I far prefer the original LP when it comes to that album).. My tastes have expanded as I've been exposed to more types of music (new neural pathways are created as we are exposed to new things -- we can't help but change through experience).

I think most who have reasonably diverse tastes in music represented at PA would find music to like by all three acts -- even if it just one piece of music, or even just one phrase, or even a note played in a certain way that can resonate with you. That can lead to liking more -- sometimes it just takes a musical moment to latch onto before new avenues open up. "I was totally hating this song until that G# which totally blew my mind."

If one doesn't like Hammill's vocals, well perhaps a VdGG instrumental such as Theme One (which was actually written by George Martin and is not really representative of VdGG) might appeal. If Godbluff doesn't appeal to one, that doesn't mean that there is no chance that the Aerosol grey machine doesn't appeal. I could imagine VdGG songs like "Out of My Book" , "Refugees" and much of "House With No Door" appealing to people who don't like, say, "Lenmmings". VdGG is quite diverse. John mentioned not liking the negativity in the lyrics of VdGG, and that helps for recommendations since then we should be focusing on things that are more upbeat, less morose and more fun. If the problem for someone who has heard Tangerine Dream is that it seems to lack excitement, well, maybe something like "Cloudburst Flight" off Force Majeure will appeal.

In the case of people who are dismissive of musical acts, often it's because they didn't hear the right music for them or they didn't hear it at the right time. It helps to be in the right mindset and for the music to resonate with whatever kinds of music you are into at the time. I love Tangerine Dream and VdGG, but I don't want to listen to them every day. Some days I just want Ennio Morricone, at other times it's Beethoven, at other times it might be Cream, and at other times I want jazz or I want folk or electronic music. I like music that fits a mood and different things excite me at different times. I'm a bit obsessive. Recently I was just wanting to listen to Matt Berry and the Wicker Man soundtrack (for the original film).

It's true that there is so much music out there that I don't feel the need to try to like something, but I do like to be exposed to diverse music, and the more music I appreciate the more I might be able to find in common with other people at the site. I like having a fairly informed opinion about a wide range of music and topics, and I like connecting with as much of this community as possible, so I like to find things in common. I am interested in getting to know better what other people like and finding that I can have some appreciation for that. There is a social element to it. I've been negative about music in the past based on a not full enough understanding of the musical expression, or ignorance through not knowing enough of the discography, and then I've explored more deeply because I regretted being critical and have found that there is music that I like in that category or by that artist. That helps to become more open-minded and tolerant, and in the case of a fairly cynical person like me, its helped me to be more respectful and less sure of my opinions. It can be humbling. It can he really cool when your mind is changed about something and when you discover something you like that you held in low regard, or just didn't like. But I digress. I do like to ramble on sometimes.

"Leaves are falling all around
It's time I was on my way
Thanks to you I'm much obliged
For such a pleasant stay
But now it's time for me to go
The autumn moon lights my way"
(Led Zeppelin - "Ramble on").

Thank you for this post. It was a really good read. The part I bolded is very Buddhist. Thich Nhat Hanh talks a lot about questioning your beliefs and opinions, and constantly asking yourself, "am I sure?" 

I'm very open to all different kinds of music but, as a Christian,... I understand that "King Crimson" means...

And stuff like Opeth, I just can't. Call me a "prude" or whatever you want. So far I'm liking Tangerine Dream, largely thanks to you. Think I'll listen to some good ole Uncle Frank now, he makes me laugh. 



Edited by YESESIS - December 13 2017 at 17:02
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2017 at 19:00
Three really good bands but VDGG is an easy pick this time.
"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"

"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2017 at 20:28
TD are almost entirely instrumental, but not the other two (excellent) bands. Thus, TD make good background for loving, lying down, reading, etc. They have been the backdrop for much of my life, and that's special. You can also focus on TD as foreground music, but that's really ALL I do with IQ or VDGG.

Thus, I have more "use" for TD, and I play them far more often than the other two.
I can also play TD around non-Prog fans--less so IQ, and not at all VDGG. I pretty much have to be alone if Hammil is going to sing! 😬
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2017 at 20:50
Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

TD are almost entirely instrumental, but not the other two (excellent) bands. Thus, TD make good background for loving, lying down, reading, etc. They have been the backdrop for much of my life, and that's special. You can also focus on TD as foreground music, but that's really ALL I do with IQ or VDGG.

Thus, I have more "use" for TD, and I play them far more often than the other two.
I can also play TD around non-Prog fans--less so IQ, and not at all VDGG. I pretty much have to be alone if Hammil is going to sing! 😬

This is actually helpful, thanks. I can totally go for music that is just music(no singing). If that's what most of their stuff is then oh yeah.. I like it. 

And, ironically, I like that VDGG guy's voice. That definitely isn't my issue with them. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2017 at 21:12
Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

"Ramble chat, let's have a ramble chat.
We'll focus first on this, and then on that"
(Adam Buxton's podcast song).

No one has to like anything, nor can everyone like everything. I take that as a given. It is hyperbole to say "having something for everybody."

I would posit that there's pretty much something for most every taste in these acts at least when it comes to the kinds of people who would join this site and wish to explore diverse music. In the case of John (aka YESESIS), he is interested enough to do this poll and has enjoyed music that has been mentioned in this thread. I've done much the same before. While I'm not everybody of course, in every case someone has taken the time has found something that appealed to me in acts that I didn't like. One might say that perhaps I am not the most discerning of individuals, but I like that people try to keep an open mind and open ears and are willing to change opinions.

I sometimes find that music that does not appeal to me at one time will appeal at another time. I love Zeit, but I didn't immediately like all of it, and at another time in my life it would not have appealed. It helps when you find another act in the category that you like. Edgar Froese's Epsilon in Malaysian Pale was one of the albums that first did it for me and opened my ears up to more music (incidentally, I far prefer the original LP when it comes to that album).. My tastes have expanded as I've been exposed to more types of music (new neural pathways are created as we are exposed to new things -- we can't help but change through experience).

I think most who have reasonably diverse tastes in music represented at PA would find music to like by all three acts -- even if it just one piece of music, or even just one phrase, or even a note played in a certain way that can resonate with you. That can lead to liking more -- sometimes it just takes a musical moment to latch onto before new avenues open up. "I was totally hating this song until that G# which totally blew my mind."

If one doesn't like Hammill's vocals, well perhaps a VdGG instrumental such as Theme One (which was actually written by George Martin and is not really representative of VdGG) might appeal. If Godbluff doesn't appeal to one, that doesn't mean that there is no chance that the Aerosol grey machine doesn't appeal. I could imagine VdGG songs like "Out of My Book" , "Refugees" and much of "House With No Door" appealing to people who don't like, say, "Lenmmings". VdGG is quite diverse. John mentioned not liking the negativity in the lyrics of VdGG, and that helps for recommendations since then we should be focusing on things that are more upbeat, less morose and more fun. If the problem for someone who has heard Tangerine Dream is that it seems to lack excitement, well, maybe something like "Cloudburst Flight" off Force Majeure will appeal.

In the case of people who are dismissive of musical acts, often it's because they didn't hear the right music for them or they didn't hear it at the right time. It helps to be in the right mindset and for the music to resonate with whatever kinds of music you are into at the time. I love Tangerine Dream and VdGG, but I don't want to listen to them every day. Some days I just want Ennio Morricone, at other times it's Beethoven, at other times it might be Cream, and at other times I want jazz or I want folk or electronic music. I like music that fits a mood and different things excite me at different times. I'm a bit obsessive. Recently I was just wanting to listen to Matt Berry and the Wicker Man soundtrack (for the original film).

It's true that there is so much music out there that I don't feel the need to try to like something, but I do like to be exposed to diverse music, and the more music I appreciate the more I might be able to find in common with other people at the site. I like having a fairly informed opinion about a wide range of music and topics, and I like connecting with as much of this community as possible, so I like to find things in common. I am interested in getting to know better what other people like and finding that I can have some appreciation for that. There is a social element to it. I've been negative about music in the past based on a not full enough understanding of the musical expression, or ignorance through not knowing enough of the discography, and then I've explored more deeply because I regretted being critical and have found that there is music that I like in that category or by that artist. That helps to become more open-minded and tolerant, and in the case of a fairly cynical person like me, its helped me to be more respectful and less sure of my opinions. It can be humbling. It can he really cool when your mind is changed about something and when you discover something you like that you held in low regard, or just didn't like. But I digress. I do like to ramble on sometimes.

"Leaves are falling all around
It's time I was on my way
Thanks to you I'm much obliged
For such a pleasant stay
But now it's time for me to go
The autumn moon lights my way"
(Led Zeppelin - "Ramble on").

Thank you for this post. It was a really good read. The part I bolded is very Buddhist. Thich Nhat Hanh talks a lot about questioning your beliefs and opinions, and constantly asking yourself, "am I sure?" 

I'm very open to all different kinds of music but, as a Christian,... I understand that "King Crimson" means...

And stuff like Opeth, I just can't. Call me a "prude" or whatever you want. So far I'm liking Tangerine Dream, largely thanks to you. Think I'll listen to some good ole Uncle Frank now, he makes me laugh. 



I'm not... well, I do am Catholic... but mostly in name. I have become distanced from practicing and all, and many things that the church proclaims rather bother me. However, I do try to stay away from music with satanic references... or in general evil ones. In the case of King Crimson, I don't think they were satanic... but there may be a few awkward things going on. In the case of Opeth, I think Akerfeldt does have an interest to such themes... but the one that really takes things to another level is Therion (even their name is greek for "Beast"), since the guy that writes their lyrics is leader to an occultist magical order (Dragon Rouge)... and it's a pity, since their music is rather great. For such bands, I try to find the songs that don't get into such themes, though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2017 at 21:56
Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

TD are almost entirely instrumental, but not the other two (excellent) bands. Thus, TD make good background for loving, lying down, reading, etc. They have been the backdrop for much of my life, and that's special. You can also focus on TD as foreground music, but that's really ALL I do with IQ or VDGG.

Thus, I have more "use" for TD, and I play them far more often than the other two.
I can also play TD around non-Prog fans--less so IQ, and not at all VDGG. I pretty much have to be alone if Hammil is going to sing! 😬

This is actually helpful, thanks. I can totally go for music that is just music(no singing). If that's what most of their stuff is then oh yeah.. I like it. 

And, ironically, I like that VDGG guy's voice. That definitely isn't my issue with them. 


Hamill's aproach to singing is very unique indeed, and I do love what he does. He doesn't take the obvious easy path, but does all sorts of things to fit the songs. He can be a great singer indeed, and have a powerful voice, but he doesn't seem to be interested in that. And lyrics may not be the most positive ones that you could find, but they are intelligent and by no means, at least as I understand, evil ones.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2017 at 22:05
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

TD are almost entirely instrumental, but not the other two (excellent) bands. Thus, TD make good background for loving, lying down, reading, etc. They have been the backdrop for much of my life, and that's special. You can also focus on TD as foreground music, but that's really ALL I do with IQ or VDGG.

Thus, I have more "use" for TD, and I play them far more often than the other two.
I can also play TD around non-Prog fans--less so IQ, and not at all VDGG. I pretty much have to be alone if Hammil is going to sing! 😬

This is actually helpful, thanks. I can totally go for music that is just music(no singing). If that's what most of their stuff is then oh yeah.. I like it. 

And, ironically, I like that VDGG guy's voice. That definitely isn't my issue with them. 


Hamill's aproach to singing is very unique indeed, and I do love what he does. He doesn't take the obvious easy path, but does all sorts of things to fit the songs. He can be a great singer indeed, and have a powerful voice, but he doesn't seem to be interested in that. And lyrics may not be the most positive ones that you could find, but they are intelligent and by no means, at least as I understand, evil ones.

Ok, my big question with them is what exactly does "Godbluff" mean?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2017 at 23:16
IQ

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2017 at 10:09
Originally posted by Dopeydoc Dopeydoc wrote:

IQ, for the XXIst century


I've been listening to The Road of Bones all week and thinking that while most long career prog bands decline with age, IQ just keeps getting better and better Thumbs Up
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2017 at 11:20
Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

TD are almost entirely instrumental, but not the other two (excellent) bands. Thus, TD make good background for loving, lying down, reading, etc. They have been the backdrop for much of my life, and that's special. You can also focus on TD as foreground music, but that's really ALL I do with IQ or VDGG.

Thus, I have more "use" for TD, and I play them far more often than the other two.
I can also play TD around non-Prog fans--less so IQ, and not at all VDGG. I pretty much have to be alone if Hammil is going to sing! 😬

This is actually helpful, thanks. I can totally go for music that is just music(no singing). If that's what most of their stuff is then oh yeah.. I like it. 

And, ironically, I like that VDGG guy's voice. That definitely isn't my issue with them. 


Hamill's aproach to singing is very unique indeed, and I do love what he does. He doesn't take the obvious easy path, but does all sorts of things to fit the songs. He can be a great singer indeed, and have a powerful voice, but he doesn't seem to be interested in that. And lyrics may not be the most positive ones that you could find, but they are intelligent and by no means, at least as I understand, evil ones.

Ok, my big question with them is what exactly does "Godbluff" mean?


I googled and found a thread at progressiveears which you might find an interesting read http://www.progressiveears.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-1327.html That thread is influencing what I'm writing below.

I haven't analysed his lyrics much, which I would want to do on that album to get a fuller picture, but I have read that he would describe his music to journalists as "Godbluff" before. I have read that Hammill identifies as an agnostic (what I call agnostic atheism or soft atheism but some might claim it to be agnostic theism), and that the title is not a refutation of God's existence (Hammill doesn't know), but implies a distrust in the veracity of religious claims. How can we know as we sleepwalk towards death? It's a statement of scepticism one might say.

Bucka001, who posts here, wrote a book on VdGG, and is a Christian, mentioned the following Peter Hammill interview snippet from 1980 in which Hammill apparently said:

"I was taught by the Jesuits for nine years which I think is significant not only in this area but in terms of my whole approach to things. I'm fairly classic Jesuit -- educated ex-Catholic Artist, of which there are many examples... [On the question of guilt] Perhaps, but not at the top of my brain. Perhaps that's the driving force down there, perhaps that's the Jesuit gift. It's not something I'm consciously aware of all the time as I say I'm not a Catholic anymore. But if it was a 'yes' or 'no' then I'd have to say I believe in God, or all gods, or something. I feel it, but I don't know. Even 'The Lie' is actually a highly religious song because it's not "All religion is bunk," it's "why is this sort of religion bunk when I have these feelings?"



Edited by Logan - December 14 2017 at 13:29
The first step on the road to wisdom is the recognition of one's own ignorance.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2017 at 12:26
Originally posted by Larkstongue41 Larkstongue41 wrote:

^ My pleasure. Since you mention Zappa, let me randomly suggest you to check out Samla Mammas Manna. Quite similar to Zappa both musically and humouristically, you should dig them.

I second that emotion.  It's difficult to conceive of the Samlas (or spinoff Von Zamla) failing to cheer anyone up.  The humor is both in the lyrics and in the melodies/arrangements, as Larkstongue41 sez.  Also along those lines, although very hard to find these days, is Dr. Dopo Jam, a Danish band from the early '70s.  Both of their 1st 2 albums (Entrée & Fat Dogs and Danishmen) are outstanding.  Their 3rd (Cruisin' at Midnight) appears to have been recorded subsequent to a humorectomy.

I voted for VdGG, but don't sweat it if you can't get into them.  Not everyone can like everything.  I've never really appreciated TD, for instance.  Peter's lyrics are certainly gloomy, but that doesn't bother me since I can be such an existential nihilist at times that I make Nietzsche look like Barney the Purple Dinosaur.  Peter's voice, as has been mentioned, can also be an acquired taste.  I acquired it about as fast as I acquired a taste for Dove ice cream bars, but he's been accused of sounding histrionic and that isn't entirely unjust.  I like that you're willing to keep trying, but if it doesn't work move on.  There's more stuff around to love than any of us will ever have time for.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2017 at 17:23
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I googled and found a thread at progressiveears which you might find an interesting read http://www.progressiveears.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-1327.html That thread is influencing what I'm writing below.

I haven't analysed his lyrics much, which I would want to do on that album to get a fuller picture, but I have read that he would describe his music to journalists as "Godbluff" before. I have read that Hammill identifies as an agnostic (what I call agnostic atheism or soft atheism but some might claim it to be agnostic theism), and that the title is not a refutation of God's existence (Hammill doesn't know), but implies a distrust in the veracity of religious claims. How can we know as we sleepwalk towards death? It's a statement of scepticism one might say.

Bucka001, who posts here, wrote a book on VdGG, and is a Christian, mentioned the following Peter Hammill interview snippet from 1980 in which Hammill apparently said:

"I was taught by the Jesuits for nine years which I think is significant not only in this area but in terms of my whole approach to things. I'm fairly classic Jesuit -- educated ex-Catholic Artist, of which there are many examples... [On the question of guilt] Perhaps, but not at the top of my brain. Perhaps that's the driving force down there, perhaps that's the Jesuit gift. It's not something I'm consciously aware of all the time as I say I'm not a Catholic anymore. But if it was a 'yes' or 'no' then I'd have to say I believe in God, or all gods, or something. I feel it, but I don't know. Even 'The Lie' is actually a highly religious song because it's not "All religion is bunk," it's "why is this sort of religion bunk when I have these feelings?"

So it sounds like he wasn't mocking God's existence then. And even feels like there probably is a God. Ok that's comforting. Thank you, this is really helpful. I had gone to Wikipedia and read the article on that album, but there was nothing about what the title means. Then I read some reviews of the album, like from allmusic etc. But again nothing. So thank you again. You've actually been super helpful on this thread. Looks like he's not an evil person, like some of the others. So I will definitely have to give their music another chance.. especially considering how popular they are on here. KC, no. Magma, no. But this band, yeah I think so. 
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