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Topic ClosedLarks' Tongues in Aspic vs Relayer

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Poll Question: Which do you prefer? Larks' Tongues in Aspic or Relayer?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
45 [54.22%]
34 [40.96%]
1 [1.20%]
3 [3.61%]
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2017 at 13:52
[In my personal experience, people are way more interested in modern djent/prog metal than anything from the 70s]

I would agree as far as younger people(in their twenties and younger). At least this is how it seems for sure. For most of the older prog fans probably not as much unless they are more into metal in the first place. 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - December 17 2017 at 13:53
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2017 at 13:58
[Fair enough, but we're arguably comparing KC's second most popular album (on this site) to what I would tentatively judge to be Yes' third or fourth most popular.]

Do you mean third or fourth most popular among prog fans or just in general? 90125 would be more popular in general but probably not among prog fans. I would say CTTE, TYA and Fragile would be ahead of it and maybe GFTO but probably not TFTO. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2017 at 15:35
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2017 at 20:48
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Magnum Vaeltaja Magnum Vaeltaja wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Am I correct in assuming that King Crimson is much more popular among younger fans these days than Yes is? I'm not just saying that because of this poll. It's just a feeling I get in general. Yes are not seen as cool anymore it seems.

You'd be surprised, actually...

I wouldn't say that either band necessarily has any "mainstream" popularity among young people, but among the other young prog fans I know, they're both very well respected. And then there are some young people who love Yes but don't even necessarily know King Crimson (and vice versa, mind you). I was actually at a college party a few months ago and met two or three other students there who were super into 70's Yes (we debated for quite a bit at whether The Yes Album or Fragile was better and eventually hijacked the party playlist to put on Yours Is No Disgrace). Good times. 

So I wouldn't say that King Crimson is much more popular among young people than King Crimson is, but then again neither is especially popular in the first place.

Well, I don't know where you live but it doesn't seem to be that way in the US. I would love to be proven wrong but in the US at least it seems most younger people into prog are into prog metal and or other newer bands and not much into Yes(this site would be an exception of course). What is my basis for saying this? Well, I have spent time on prog facebook gruops, Yes facebook groups and on their fan site and there seems to be hardly anyone in any of them under 45. So maybe only the hardcore fans are older. I'm not sure. You are right that over all they aren't that known but in my opinion Yes seems to be far more under rated and under appreciated than they should be by younger fans(at least in the US). Just my opinion based on my observation. I think KC has some kind of street cred or hipster respect that Yes doesn't. If you look on the rate your music site which is probably mostly younger people ITCOTCK has 18,000 ratings where CTTE "only" has 12,000.

This was just north of the border, though the people I was talking to were actually American (from Colorado). But I definitely agree with you that, statistically speaking, Yes is something of an obscurity among us young'uns; even those of us into prog. Although pretty much every young prog fan I've met in real life has been into 70's prog, I've definitely also noticed the prog metal fixation from browsing other online music sites. I'm sure if you asked the average millennial what they knew about prog, the most common response would definitely be "what?", which would then be followed by "you mean like Pink Floyd?", which would then be followed by "Yeah, I love Dream Theater, Between The Buried and Me, [insert more prog metal bands here], Porcupine Tree, and Rush!", and then way down there on the outer tail of the bell curve you'd have those like myself who are actually into Yes, King Crimson, et al.

With that in mind, though, it seems to me that of the young people who frequent this forum, we do tend to be biased slightly more towards the jazz/avant/experimental side of things than the symphonic prog of yore, but there are still plenty of us who admire the classics. That said, I don't think that we make up a big enough fraction of forum-goers for this to have any significant sway on the outcome of polls like this one.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2017 at 03:14
Relayer 4.5*
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2017 at 04:01
Originally posted by Magnum Vaeltaja Magnum Vaeltaja wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Magnum Vaeltaja Magnum Vaeltaja wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Am I correct in assuming that King Crimson is much more popular among younger fans these days than Yes is? I'm not just saying that because of this poll. It's just a feeling I get in general. Yes are not seen as cool anymore it seems.

You'd be surprised, actually...

I wouldn't say that either band necessarily has any "mainstream" popularity among young people, but among the other young prog fans I know, they're both very well respected. And then there are some young people who love Yes but don't even necessarily know King Crimson (and vice versa, mind you). I was actually at a college party a few months ago and met two or three other students there who were super into 70's Yes (we debated for quite a bit at whether The Yes Album or Fragile was better and eventually hijacked the party playlist to put on Yours Is No Disgrace). Good times. 

So I wouldn't say that King Crimson is much more popular among young people than King Crimson is, but then again neither is especially popular in the first place.

Well, I don't know where you live but it doesn't seem to be that way in the US. I would love to be proven wrong but in the US at least it seems most younger people into prog are into prog metal and or other newer bands and not much into Yes(this site would be an exception of course). What is my basis for saying this? Well, I have spent time on prog facebook gruops, Yes facebook groups and on their fan site and there seems to be hardly anyone in any of them under 45. So maybe only the hardcore fans are older. I'm not sure. You are right that over all they aren't that known but in my opinion Yes seems to be far more under rated and under appreciated than they should be by younger fans(at least in the US). Just my opinion based on my observation. I think KC has some kind of street cred or hipster respect that Yes doesn't. If you look on the rate your music site which is probably mostly younger people ITCOTCK has 18,000 ratings where CTTE "only" has 12,000.

This was just north of the border, though the people I was talking to were actually American (from Colorado). But I definitely agree with you that, statistically speaking, Yes is something of an obscurity among us young'uns; even those of us into prog. Although pretty much every young prog fan I've met in real life has been into 70's prog, I've definitely also noticed the prog metal fixation from browsing other online music sites. I'm sure if you asked the average millennial what they knew about prog, the most common response would definitely be "what?", which would then be followed by "you mean like Pink Floyd?", which would then be followed by "Yeah, I love Dream Theater, Between The Buried and Me, [insert more prog metal bands here], Porcupine Tree, and Rush!", and then way down there on the outer tail of the bell curve you'd have those like myself who are actually into Yes, King Crimson, et al.

With that in mind, though, it seems to me that of the young people who frequent this forum, we do tend to be biased slightly more towards the jazz/avant/experimental side of things than the symphonic prog of yore, but there are still plenty of us who admire the classics. That said, I don't think that we make up a big enough fraction of forum-goers for this to have any significant sway on the outcome of polls like this one.
As far as I know there are hipsters in US (not prog listeners generally) who respect King Crimson, but not even think about listening Yes. I donīt think there is nothing to do with age, there are young and older. But who really cares does the young people listen King Crimson or Yes? The young listens what they listen. I believe also new Yes albums are oldfashioned to young when King Crimson has really modernized itīs sound. To me itīs totally ok, I prefer lot more new Yes albums than new King Crimson, although not totally hate new King Crimson. Itīs just so cold sounding to me, there is no warmth of "I talk to the wind", "Cadence & Cascade", "Exiles" etc. I am really glad Fripp has now been willing to perform their old stuff, their latest live albums are so much better than their latest studio-albums! I am a really big Yes-fan, but if there is competition between any classic Yes album and classic King Crimson (well maybe not Islands and Earthbound) King Crimson will win.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2017 at 10:13
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2017 at 10:45
The one with Bruford.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2017 at 12:41
I like both  quite a bit

but

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2017 at 12:46
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2017 at 12:49
Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

The one with Bruford.

I had to think about that for a second since Bruford has played with both bands. Wink

Did you know that Bill Bruford also played on Chris Squire's "Fish out of Water" album?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2017 at 13:01
Originally posted by Magnum Vaeltaja Magnum Vaeltaja wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Magnum Vaeltaja Magnum Vaeltaja wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Am I correct in assuming that King Crimson is much more popular among younger fans these days than Yes is? I'm not just saying that because of this poll. It's just a feeling I get in general. Yes are not seen as cool anymore it seems.

You'd be surprised, actually...

I wouldn't say that either band necessarily has any "mainstream" popularity among young people, but among the other young prog fans I know, they're both very well respected. And then there are some young people who love Yes but don't even necessarily know King Crimson (and vice versa, mind you). I was actually at a college party a few months ago and met two or three other students there who were super into 70's Yes (we debated for quite a bit at whether The Yes Album or Fragile was better and eventually hijacked the party playlist to put on Yours Is No Disgrace). Good times. 

So I wouldn't say that King Crimson is much more popular among young people than King Crimson is, but then again neither is especially popular in the first place.

Well, I don't know where you live but it doesn't seem to be that way in the US. I would love to be proven wrong but in the US at least it seems most younger people into prog are into prog metal and or other newer bands and not much into Yes(this site would be an exception of course). What is my basis for saying this? Well, I have spent time on prog facebook gruops, Yes facebook groups and on their fan site and there seems to be hardly anyone in any of them under 45. So maybe only the hardcore fans are older. I'm not sure. You are right that over all they aren't that known but in my opinion Yes seems to be far more under rated and under appreciated than they should be by younger fans(at least in the US). Just my opinion based on my observation. I think KC has some kind of street cred or hipster respect that Yes doesn't. If you look on the rate your music site which is probably mostly younger people ITCOTCK has 18,000 ratings where CTTE "only" has 12,000.

This was just north of the border, though the people I was talking to were actually American (from Colorado). But I definitely agree with you that, statistically speaking, Yes is something of an obscurity among us young'uns; even those of us into prog. Although pretty much every young prog fan I've met in real life has been into 70's prog, I've definitely also noticed the prog metal fixation from browsing other online music sites. I'm sure if you asked the average millennial what they knew about prog, the most common response would definitely be "what?", which would then be followed by "you mean like Pink Floyd?", which would then be followed by "Yeah, I love Dream Theater, Between The Buried and Me, [insert more prog metal bands here], Porcupine Tree, and Rush!", and then way down there on the outer tail of the bell curve you'd have those like myself who are actually into Yes, King Crimson, et al.

With that in mind, though, it seems to me that of the young people who frequent this forum, we do tend to be biased slightly more towards the jazz/avant/experimental side of things than the symphonic prog of yore, but there are still plenty of us who admire the classics. That said, I don't think that we make up a big enough fraction of forum-goers for this to have any significant sway on the outcome of polls like this one.

As much as it disappoints me, the truth is that Yes and Genesis are no longer the gateway bands for those getting into prog for the first time. Sure, for some maybe but not for the majority of the younger prog fans. It wasn't like this for a long time but Yes and most of the other classic seventies prog bands(with the exception of PF and maybe KC; Rush too but they weren't really part of the original prog wave in most respects)have been buried underneath all the prog metal and newer prog stuff(including post rock)that gets more recognition and attention these days. Ultimately, most people(especially younger folks)are social creatures and will gravitate towards what their friends like and what their friends think is hip and cool. If liking ELP and Yes and Genesis isn't cool or hip then they are out as far as prog goes. Most of the fans on this forum though go deeper and are a bit more open minded and hardcore so don't really make up the typical prog fans(same thing for some of the other prog sites and fb groups). Most of the general discussion boards though like reddit and all the gamer ones and general music forums that have prog mentioned or a special little prog section seem to get responses mostly from the young hipster prog fans who are in love with Riverside, Haken and Opeth but don't have any PG era Genesis or Yes albums or more obscure vintage albums. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2017 at 13:08
 I like Yes more than King Crimson But I like LTIA better than Relayer, not my favorite Yes album.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2017 at 14:08
I love both of these but prefer Larks.

It is not that strange that youngins steer more towards the jaggedy hard hitting riffs of monsieur Fripp as KC basically laid down the blueprint to so many of the "new" and popular music genres of today. Put on Red and people hear the seeds to avant metal, post-rock and so many micro genres in between. Larks manages to do the same although it is somewhat more impenetrable to the uninitiated. Conversely put on a Yes album and most folks my age and younger (I know that is) envision this elve fronted magicians band....which granted could've been cool back at the turn of the millenium with the LOTR flicks had it been done tastefully, but nowadays I think it's become more niche and a bit nerdy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2017 at 15:55
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

As much as it disappoints me, the truth is that Yes and Genesis are no longer the gateway bands for those getting into prog for the first time. Sure, for some maybe but not for the majority of the younger prog fans. It wasn't like this for a long time but Yes and most of the other classic seventies prog bands(with the exception of PF and maybe KC; Rush too but they weren't really part of the original prog wave in most respects)have been buried underneath all the prog metal and newer prog stuff(including post rock)that gets more recognition and attention these days. Ultimately, most people(especially younger folks)are social creatures and will gravitate towards what their friends like and what their friends think is hip and cool. If liking ELP and Yes and Genesis isn't cool or hip then they are out as far as prog goes. Most of the fans on this forum though go deeper and are a bit more open minded and hardcore so don't really make up the typical prog fans(same thing for some of the other prog sites and fb groups). Most of the general discussion boards though like reddit and all the gamer ones and general music forums that have prog mentioned or a special little prog section seem to get responses mostly from the young hipster prog fans who are in love with Riverside, Haken and Opeth but don't have any PG era Genesis or Yes albums or more obscure vintage albums.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2017 at 21:10
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Magnum Vaeltaja Magnum Vaeltaja wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Magnum Vaeltaja Magnum Vaeltaja wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Am I correct in assuming that King Crimson is much more popular among younger fans these days than Yes is? I'm not just saying that because of this poll. It's just a feeling I get in general. Yes are not seen as cool anymore it seems.


You'd be surprised, actually...

I wouldn't say that either band necessarily has any "mainstream" popularity among young people, but among the other young prog fans I know, they're both very well respected. And then there are some young people who love Yes but don't even necessarily know King Crimson (and vice versa, mind you). I was actually at a college party a few months ago and met two or three other students there who were super into 70's Yes (we debated for quite a bit at whether The Yes Album or Fragile was better and eventually hijacked the party playlist to put on Yours Is No Disgrace). Good times. 

So I wouldn't say that King Crimson is much more popular among young people than King Crimson is, but then again neither is especially popular in the first place.


Well, I don't know where you live but it doesn't seem to be that way in the US. I would love to be proven wrong but in the US at least it seems most younger people into prog are into prog metal and or other newer bands and not much into Yes(this site would be an exception of course). What is my basis for saying this? Well, I have spent time on prog facebook gruops, Yes facebook groups and on their fan site and there seems to be hardly anyone in any of them under 45. So maybe only the hardcore fans are older. I'm not sure. You are right that over all they aren't that known but in my opinion Yes seems to be far more under rated and under appreciated than they should be by younger fans(at least in the US). Just my opinion based on my observation. I think KC has some kind of street cred or hipster respect that Yes doesn't. If you look on the rate your music site which is probably mostly younger people ITCOTCK has 18,000 ratings where CTTE "only" has 12,000.



This was just north of the border, though the people I was talking to were actually American (from Colorado). But I definitely agree with you that, statistically speaking, Yes is something of an obscurity among us young'uns; even those of us into prog. Although pretty much every young prog fan I've met in real life has been into 70's prog, I've definitely also noticed the prog metal fixation from browsing other online music sites. I'm sure if you asked the average millennial what they knew about prog, the most common response would definitely be "what?", which would then be followed by "you mean like Pink Floyd?", which would then be followed by "Yeah, I love Dream Theater, Between The Buried and Me, [insert more prog metal bands here], Porcupine Tree, and Rush!", and then way down there on the outer tail of the bell curve you'd have those like myself who are actually into Yes, King Crimson, et al.

With that in mind, though, it seems to me that of the young people who frequent this forum, we do tend to be biased slightly more towards the jazz/avant/experimental side of things than the symphonic prog of yore, but there are still plenty of us who admire the classics. That said, I don't think that we make up a big enough fraction of forum-goers for this to have any significant sway on the outcome of polls like this one.


As much as it disappoints me, the truth is that Yes and Genesis are no longer the gateway bands for those getting into prog for the first time. Sure, for some maybe but not for the majority of the younger prog fans. It wasn't like this for a long time but Yes and most of the other classic seventies prog bands(with the exception of PF and maybe KC; Rush too but they weren't really part of the original prog wave in most respects)have been buried underneath all the prog metal and newer prog stuff(including post rock)that gets more recognition and attention these days. Ultimately, most people(especially younger folks)are social creatures and will gravitate towards what their friends like and what their friends think is hip and cool. If liking ELP and Yes and Genesis isn't cool or hip then they are out as far as prog goes. Most of the fans on this forum though go deeper and are a bit more open minded and hardcore so don't really make up the typical prog fans(same thing for some of the other prog sites and fb groups). Most of the general discussion boards though like reddit and all the gamer ones and general music forums that have prog mentioned or a special little prog section seem to get responses mostly from the young hipster prog fans who are in love with Riverside, Haken and Opeth but don't have any PG era Genesis or Yes albums or more obscure vintage albums. 


I'm not sure about Yes and Genesis are really so underapreciated yet, but mostly my connection to prog is through this site, and so this are the opinions I know about prog. However, if it's true that newer prog fans get to know the genre because of newer bands instead of the classic, even though I may not really like it, and still think those classics have that special something that has been lost (mostly) by newer bands, it's actually better for the genre to prosper (to whatever degree it does) because of the newer bands than because of the old ones... that means the genre is alive and healthy, and is not just a nostalgia thing that will die once the original fans and bands are gone and there's no one to spread the word anymore.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2017 at 22:45
I think itīs not just prog music. I think there has been tendency going on that only some of the really great artists of sixties and seventies are truly great and on the other hand many artists of 2000 that doing something that has done before are much greater than some old ones. For example I have met people who seriously claims that Tommy is awful (also Whoīs next, Quadrophenia). It seems to me people are thinking new music is automatically something you have to listen (that you belong to the group of hip people) and itīs not important do you know much about old music. Sure prog music commonly is not hip and cool today. But of course I have met also some young music listeners who are really excited about Hendrix, Beatles etc.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2017 at 22:57
Yeah the Beatles seem to be oddly popular among young people I've noticed. But that's probably not going to change any time soon, or ever lol. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2017 at 02:56
To me it seems Beatles, Stones (not after Tattoo You Stones) The Who before Tommy, Kinks, Hendrix, King Crimson, Velvet Underground, Stooges, Bowie, Lou Reed, Brian Eno are the ones that are still respected at least in those hipster circles. Not much anything else from the 60-70ies. Of course itīs great people listen even those.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2017 at 04:43
I'm not really sure on what basis we're comparing these two particular albums, other than simple personal preference. I just prefer LARKS' TONGUES. I've always found RELAYER, like TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS, a little too labor intensive.
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