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Topic ClosedGenesis (and then there were three )

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Quinino View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2018 at 14:58
Great album, really - it brightened my summer vacations that year Cool
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2018 at 17:56
Originally posted by mlkpad14 mlkpad14 wrote:

Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Overall, the 1st bittersweet Genesis album I experienced.  Up till then I loved everything Genesis did (or at least tolerated songs like I Know What I Like & Your Own Special Way).  When ATTWT came out I remember being pleasantly surprised that Rutherford did such a good job filling Steve Hackett's space.  While I loved Down & Out, Deep in the Motherlode, Undertow, Snowbound & Many Too Many I absolutely hated Follow You Follow Me and Say it's Alright Joe.  Then with Duke, Abacab & 'Shapes' I liked less and less and hated more and more until I couldn't be bothered to care about them anymore.  Such a sad ending to such a great band Disapprove

IN YOUR OPINION. And you're certainly entitled to it, I just don't happen to agree. :p  I love the 'Shapes' album, and I even love.. *looks around* Invisible Touch! - yeah I've already handed in my prog card lol, don't worry. 

As for ATTWT, I think it's a great album all the way through. I love Follow You Follow Me. - Hey I already handed in my prog card, what more do you all want lol. 

Yeah, Abacab is also a brilliant piece, and highly recommended.

Right on brother. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2018 at 00:02
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Not listened to the vinyl album since 1980 and possibly not listened to the CD incarnation for 20 years! Was this the 2nd pop-prog album? (I always consider DSOTM as pop-prog - very accessible for non Floyd fans - who still hated WYWH and animals) - probably not...but the short-song format and lyrical content is outside of the far superior music that preceded it! Some nice melodies if I recall - a massive pop hit in "Follow you Follow Me" - My wife loves that song - we first-danced to that at my wedding in 1988.....I don't suppose we could have first danced to apocalypse in 9/8 could we....


Pop/prog is probably a reasonably fair description of ATTWT. Some of the tracks have an epic prog feel; Burning Rope, The Lady Lies and Deep in the Motherlode, but the melodies are accessable and the songs relatively short. It comes in for a lot of flak from prog purists, understandably perhaps, but I don't think it's an embarassament like some of their later albums were.
If I can remember I like this verse starting with
'Stand up to the blow....' in Burning rope....
I think that if that chord progression had been used as a instrumental piece - with the mellotron and poly-moog visiting intricate patterns round the theme and with the main tune also reprised by a Hackettesque guitar solo - and the track extended out to 15:00 - they may have had a prog classic......I would have loved TFK or transatlantic to cover the later genesis stuff and just prog-splurge all over it!!! - Extending the pop/prog could be a viable source of new prog!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2018 at 03:18
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Not listened to the vinyl album since 1980 and possibly not listened to the CD incarnation for 20 years! Was this the 2nd pop-prog album? (I always consider DSOTM as pop-prog - very accessible for non Floyd fans - who still hated WYWH and animals) - probably not...but the short-song format and lyrical content is outside of the far superior music that preceded it! Some nice melodies if I recall - a massive pop hit in "Follow you Follow Me" - My wife loves that song - we first-danced to that at my wedding in 1988.....I don't suppose we could have first danced to apocalypse in 9/8 could we....


Pop/prog is probably a reasonably fair description of ATTWT. Some of the tracks have an epic prog feel; Burning Rope, The Lady Lies and Deep in the Motherlode, but the melodies are accessable and the songs relatively short. It comes in for a lot of flak from prog purists, understandably perhaps, but I don't think it's an embarassament like some of their later albums were.

If I can remember I like this verse starting with
'Stand up to the blow....' in Burning rope....
I think that if that chord progression had been used as a instrumental piece - with the mellotron and poly-moog visiting intricate patterns round the theme and with the main tune also reprised by a Hackettesque guitar solo - and the track extended out to 15:00 - they may have had a prog classic......I would have loved TFK or transatlantic to cover the later genesis stuff and just prog-splurge all over it!!! - Extending the pop/prog could be a viable source of new prog!


That line is from Undertow:

"Stand up to the blow
That fate has struck upon you
Make the most of all
You still have coming to you"

The chord progression is lovely, I agree. I also agree that there are the ingredients of a 'prog classic' among those tracks, but I think they were hellbent on moving away from 'prog classics' at that point, and instead penning songs for a wider audience, with something still there for the loyalists. In that regard they did succeed on ATTWT. I just think that by the time ABACAB was released, they had gone too far! They had to compete with disco and punk. Prog rock in the more traditional sense was effectivey dead by 1978, certainly dying.
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2018 at 03:30
Listening now.

The Lady Lies is worth it alone, IMHO. What a killer track!

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2018 at 03:36
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

^The Lady Lies is an awesome, catchy prog song IMHO. Might be my favorite from that record.


Musically it is an awsome tune, I agree. The mos prog track on the album, but I tink I still prefer Down & Out and Burning Rope
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2018 at 15:15
"Down and Out" is spectacular. "Deep in the Motherlode" is my favorite song. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2018 at 16:16
I prefer the 4 post Gabriel Genesis albums to virtually everything else they did barring Foxtrot. I like the harder powerful sound they were generating at this time. For me they peaked when they toured on the back of Duke and prog never got any better than the 1980 Lyceum gig. From then it was a steep decline although I love Fading Lights was a decent end to an important band. (I cannot count Calling All Stations as a Genesis album)

Edited by richardh - January 17 2018 at 16:16
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2018 at 17:01
It's a 'curate's egg' of an album. Some very good moments mixed with several dodgy stuff as well. At the time I thought Rutherford made a good fist of the guitar duties, but the hole left by Hackett is increasingly clear when you hear it now.

The UK tribute band - Los Endos - Ultimate Genesis - are doing the 78 Knebworth Show this year on their tour ((plus Gabriel-era extras) and it'll be interesting to see how some ATTWT tracks stand up against the classics.

I can add that the Duke tour of 1980 was a pleasant surprise when I saw them at the Manchester Apollo. My expectations were low, as Duke was a good, rather than a great, album..... but they were able to display enough progginess on the night to send me home smiling (The Knife as an encore helped though!)
“Living in their pools, they soon forget about the sea.”
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2018 at 17:14
OP has me re-hooked on this record.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2018 at 17:29
I think a lot of fans of the band were slightly put off by the fact that there were no epics on the record!Personally I love ATTWT.Saying that most of everything the wrote bar a handful of songs throughout their career is a joy to listen to!
"Hello sun.Hello bird.
Hello my lady.
Hello breakfast.May I buy you
again tomorrow?"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2018 at 17:31
I think it's better than most if not all albums after it but aside from the very first I think everything they did before it was better. That said, I think it's actually very good I just am not sure if it really qualifies as a full blown prog album or not. Some have suggested that it's the first neo prog album but I think even most neo prog had longer tracks and more instrumental sections.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2018 at 02:59
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I prefer the 4 post Gabriel Genesis albums to virtually everything else they did barring Foxtrot. I like the harder powerful sound they were generating at this time. For me they peaked when they toured on the back of Duke and prog never got any better than the 1980 Lyceum gig. From then it was a steep decline although I love Fading Lights was a decent end to an important band. (I cannot count Calling All Stations as a Genesis album)


My position is very similar, although I'd put the Lamb on a par with Foxtrot.

I also agree about Calling all Stations. I think it was a bit cynical calling a Genesis album. It's a Banks/Rutherford project really. Without Hacket or Collins or Gabriel, it's not Genesis. End of. IMO.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2018 at 05:05
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

...ATTWT is one of Genesis' best albums. Not sure why some people want to argue that.
Because it's not?

Wind & Wuthering > Trick < all Gabriel era except the first one.

I haven't even heard the last three Genesis efforts -  I don't think I ever will!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2018 at 11:58
^I know that's the more popular opinion 'round these parts but IMO Genesis peaked with Trick-Wind-ATTWT.

In fact, I'm spinning ATTWT right now and it's kicking my arse. Yes, it's "The Banks Hour" and I love it! (:

(And I'm sorry, Phil sings circles around Peter.)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2018 at 12:06
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I prefer the 4 post Gabriel Genesis albums to virtually everything else they did barring Foxtrot. I like the harder powerful sound they were generating at this time. For me they peaked when they toured on the back of Duke and prog never got any better than the 1980 Lyceum gig. From then it was a steep decline although I love Fading Lights was a decent end to an important band. (I cannot count Calling All Stations as a Genesis album)
Same,though of the Peter albums my favourite is the very first From Genesis to Revalation ,believe it or not.
I did see the Duke tour also.Great stuff.
Shake & bake.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2018 at 22:52
Happy for people who enjoy this album, but really, I don't see what they see. Duke to my ears is a much better album. For that matter, Genesis was a better band when Steve Hackett was in the band.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2018 at 01:50
Originally posted by iluvmarillion iluvmarillion wrote:

Happy for people who enjoy this album, but really, I don't see what they see. Duke to my ears is a much better album. For that matter, Genesis was a better band when Steve Hackett was in the band.

I don't hate this one, it's definitely one of the stronger post-Gabriel Genesis records (there aren't many. Actually, there are 3 IMHO; Trick, ATTWT, Duke).
 

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

^I know that's the more popular opinion 'round these parts but IMO Genesis peaked with Trick-Wind-ATTWT.

In fact, I'm spinning ATTWT right now and it's kicking my arse. Yes, it's "The Banks Hour" and I love it! (:

(And I'm sorry, Phil sings circles around Peter.)

For me, the only post-Gabriel-era Genesis that clicks is Tail, ATTWT, and Duke. Everything else feels disorganized and spotty.
 
Phil is definitely a better vocalist, but you'll be hard pressed to find that perfect blend of creativity and on-stage prowess that Gabriel provided. Two very, very different eras obviously. The band used to get pissed because people thought Genesis was Peter Gabriel on stage and some dudes backing him, lol. Phil Collins might be my favorite vocalist ever, but Gabriel-era Genesis continues to age like a fine wine. I wish I felt that way about the entire Genesis catalog.


Edited by Frenetic Zetetic - January 23 2018 at 01:51

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2018 at 03:43
The last of the truly Prog-fueled Genesis albums IMO. Duke is still a great album, kinda 50/50 Prog-Pop, but afterwards we only have faint glimpses of Prog Genesis........
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2018 at 03:47
The album's title refers to the rating I would give it (their first three star album in chronological order). ATTWT has four good or excellent songs (Down and Out, Undertow, Burning Rope and Deep in the Motherlode), three guilty pleasures (Ballad of Big, Snowman and The Lady Lies) and some crappy filler.

Edited by someone_else - January 23 2018 at 03:47
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