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Classic prog vs modern prog

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fracturematt View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 19 2018 at 12:42
When I think of prog I think Porcupine Tree and Opeth.  These are in my opinion the modern day mainstays of prog music.

There seems to be a huge disconnect for many people.  I mention prog and people say, "yes like Queensryche, Rush, King Crimson, etc..." 

Is this a "new wave" of prog that's still underground?  Is it a different subgenre of prog and if so what would you call it? 

I realize this may be a non-topic for some.  Everyone's perspective is different.  You ask one guy what "rock" is and he says AD/DC and Rolling Stones, and the next guy says Deftones and Korn.

I guess my question is this.  Older prog had a distinct sound to it.  Many modern prog bands have that sound.  But modern progressive bands like Porcupine Tree have a lot of progression but they don't sound dated at all.  How do you differentiate between these 2 sounds.  Is there a subgenre classification that you can tag it with?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2018 at 12:44
Classic Prog.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2018 at 13:03
Give me everything from 1969-1977.
Jamshire

Jazz fusion all day, baby.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2018 at 13:41
Classic prog for me, but I also like a lot of modern day prog.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fredyair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2018 at 14:01
I think we are obsessed with labels, genre, sub-genre, etc, for me there is music I like, music I tolerate and music I cannot stand even in progressive music of all times. Is it the time in which it was created that important from the listener point of view? Only to discuss sources of inspiration, and that's just a maybe. Music gets dated when it lacks quality and was only the result of a fad. 
Long live Progresive music!
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fracturematt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fracturematt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2018 at 14:30
This post is mostly in response for my difficulty in finding like-minded musicians.   I know labels can be unnecessary in most circumstances but when finding a prog drummer who doesn't know any of my prog influences it can be a bit frustrating
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fredyair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2018 at 14:49
In your case I understand, my response was purely from the listener point of view. I guess a good musician can grasp the subtleties of any style or genre, good music has no borders or limitations in the ear of an open minded person, only quality should discriminate between good and bad.
Long live Progresive music!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HackettFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2018 at 16:38
Originally posted by fracturematt fracturematt wrote:

When I think of prog I think Porcupine Tree and Opeth.  These are in my opinion the modern day mainstays of prog music.

There seems to be a huge disconnect for many people.  I mention prog and people say, "yes like Queensryche, Rush, King Crimson, etc..." 

Is this a "new wave" of prog that's still underground?  Is it a different subgenre of prog and if so what would you call it? 

I realize this may be a non-topic for some.  Everyone's perspective is different.  You ask one guy what "rock" is and he says AD/DC and Rolling Stones, and the next guy says Deftones and Korn.

I guess my question is this.  Older prog had a distinct sound to it.  Many modern prog bands have that sound.  But modern progressive bands like Porcupine Tree have a lot of progression but they don't sound dated at all.  How do you differentiate between these 2 sounds.  Is there a subgenre classification that you can tag it with?
I don't think older Prog actually had a distinct sound to it. It seems to me that the diversity of style in the current age is about the same as in the classic era.
A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote axeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2018 at 18:20
Both. I really, really like both. You can't beat the original prog for its originality, but I've also heard most of the stuff I really live until I can anticipate every change. 
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Walkscore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2018 at 19:32
I personally don't really think there is a huge disconnect or difference in the sound of more modern bands and the older classic ones. I can easily see the musical lineage in Porcupine Tree, for instance. In a way, the sub-categories that are here on PA are more important in defining the style of music (i.e. 'heavy', 'symphonic' 'krautrock' etc), although even then there are so many bands whose sound incorporates elements of different genres and sub-categories that these labels can themselves be a bit frustrating. I generally resist trying to label music too much. But I think I understand why you are asking the question with respect to finding musicians who can play a particular style of drumming...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luxis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2018 at 19:50
Who the f*** answers "Queensr˙che"?! Haha!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twosteves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2018 at 20:23
Classic prog----has everything I like in music---jazz rock classical world avant garde
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2018 at 01:40
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Give me everything from 1969-1977.

although I would rather have this without CanWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2018 at 02:47
Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:

Classic prog----has everything I like in music---jazz rock classical world avant garde

High-five! Cool

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Give me everything from 1969-1977.

although I would rather have this without CanWink

The band Can? I haven't listened much TBH! I assume that's a sh*t era? LOL
Jamshire

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ForestFriend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2018 at 10:10
Interesting that you seem to have the opposite problem from me - Whenever I see or jam with local prog bands, they're all about the Porcupine Tree/Opeth/Tool type sound (if I'm lucky... sometimes they just chug on their 7 string and call it prog), but I'd rather do something a bit more classic sounding.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlkpad14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2018 at 12:07
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:

Classic prog----has everything I like in music---jazz rock classical world avant garde

High-five! Cool

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Give me everything from 1969-1977.

although I would rather have this without CanWink

The band Can? I haven't listened much TBH! I assume that's a sh*t era? LOL

No, Can was awesome during that time period... Arguably their best three albums were released in 1971, 1972, and 1973. I cannot recommend Future Days enough for any prog fan!
https://gamecrazyprofessional.weebly.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2018 at 13:36
Originally posted by mlkpad14 mlkpad14 wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:

Classic prog----has everything I like in music---jazz rock classical world avant garde

High-five! Cool

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Give me everything from 1969-1977.

although I would rather have this without CanWink

The band Can? I haven't listened much TBH! I assume that's a sh*t era? LOL

No, Can was awesome during that time period... Arguably their best three albums were released in 1971, 1972, and 1973. I cannot recommend Future Days enough for any prog fan!

I've been meaning to investigate their catalog!
Jamshire

Jazz fusion all day, baby.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2018 at 14:42
[I mention prog and people say, "yes like Queensryche, Rush, King Crimson, etc..." ]

Yep, only the word "yes" should come after like and before Queensryche or maybe between Rush and King Crimson. ;) 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2018 at 14:46
Hi,

Modern prog.

Perhaps I have heard the old stuff way too much, including Beethoven and Mozart! Know what I mean? To the point where ... it's not even fun listening to it anymore.

The new stuff has just as much life as the old one ... with one difference ... we aren't as stoned as we used to be, and thought that everything was shinier than it really was!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... now you know what the art is all about!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2018 at 14:47
Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:

Classic prog----has everything I like in music---jazz rock classical world avant garde

I think maybe one of the things the OP was getting at is that there are modern bands who have the classic rock sound and ones that don't. For example, The Flower Kings(if we can call them modern)and Transatlantic do have that classic sound but bands like Porcupine Tree(well the later stuff anyway)and the Mars Volta do not. My guess would be most of the "crossover" prog bands have a more modern sound as well. 

Here's my take on it. The classic bands from the seventies were obviously influenced by classical, jazz, folk, etc and not so much other bands at the time since there weren't a lot of bands that were trying doing prog in the early days or stuff that they were influenced by. Of course there were some exceptions like the Beatles and King Crimson who influenced a lot of later prog bands and a few others like the Moody Blues, the Nice etc. However, mostly the first wave prog bands were just throwing in everything but the kitchen sink. The modern symphonic bands were influenced by the early prog bands(Yes, Genesis, KC etc)and so it's often rather obvious which bands they were influenced by(the Flower Kings and Spock's Beard for example). With modern bands who aren't retro sounding or overtly symph prog sounding it's less obvious who their influences are as far as prog goes. Some of the more indie sounding bands could be influenced by indie rock or alternative or whatever. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head but I know they're out there. 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - January 20 2018 at 14:53
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