1969: Gesesis vs Yes vs Van der Graaf Generator

BaldJean wrote: some more 1969 albums that i think weren't mentioned; correct me if I am wrong: Cream - Goodbye Vanila Fudge - Near the Beginning MC5 - Kick Out the Jams Grateful Dead - Aoxomoxoa Spooky Tooth - Spooky Two Velvet Underground - Velvet Underground

These are my favourites too, MC5 I already mentioned, didn´t mention Cream because I prefer more Disraeli & Wheels and Velvet because I prefer with Nico & White Heat more.

The High Tide did make my 60s list a few posts above. It's tucked in between Writing on the Wall and Tea and Symphony. That Circus is a fine album that I didn't think of (I think I might have discovered it because of you).

Incidentally, there's another Circus I like too which released a self-titled in 1976 and a very good album called Movin' On in 1977.

Just listened Aerosol again (it´s the VDGG album I have listened least). Really like it much! It´s kind of funny album, when music is quite psychpop, but vocals are as great as later VDGG-albums. Also keyboards are not dominating that much, only Octopus started to sound what was coming. I think Genesis and VDGG albums have much more in common, they´re both sounding really sixties albums when Yes was already heading towards seventies that time. But sometimes I like more sixties clear, echoed sounds than seventies soft, but almost non-echoed, dry sounds.

Mortte wrote: Logan wrote: Mortte wrote: Any of them aren´t bad album, but Yes sounded the most itself already in it´s first album. Also of course thinking it´s the best of those three. To me VdGG sounded like itself on that album about as much as Yes did on its debut. Genesis, on the other hand, had a less mature sound. I think that both Yes and VdGG started strong out of the gates, whereas the Genesis album feels like a prequel band. One may claim that the "Yes" album sounds more like the classic Yes that many Prog fans laud than "The Aerosol Grey Machine" sounds like the classic era of VdGG that many Prog fans laud, but I hear a follow-through with those albums leading into subsequent ones, whereas Genesis had a more significant change. Like in "Octopus" you can hear the later "out-there" VdGG (has its excesses, and I don't altogether like it, but it certainly is one of the most progressive tracks off any of these three albums): And in other tracks you can hear VdGG's softer side. ------------------------------------------------ Some stats for fun: In terms of the ratings at ProgArchives: "Aerosol..." has a 3.26 with 569 ratings "From Genesis..." has 2.58 with 1047 ratings "Yes" has 3.24 and 1197 ratings At rateyourmusic: Aerosol has a 3.34 with 1,180 ratings From Genesis has a 2.90 with 2,239 ratings Yes has a 3.40 with 2,647 ratings Yes, I think also VDGG sounded more itself in it´s first album than Genesis, but still there are more difference between Aerosol and at least we can than first Yes and Time and a word (that Yes second is full Yes album to me). My 1969 favourites: Caravan: s/t Pink Floyd: More Pink Floyd: Ummagumma King Crimson: ITCHYCOCK Amon Düül: Phallus Dei Jethro: Stand Up Soft Machine: Volume Two Rolling Stones: Let It Bleed the Beatles: Abbey Road Kaleidoscope: Faintly Blowing Wigwam: Hard N Horny Captain Beefheart & His Magic Band: Trout Mask Replica Stooges: s/t MC5: Kick Out the Jams Dr. John: Babylon Family: Family Entertainment Mothers of Invention: Uncle Meat Zappa: Hot Rats Janis Ian: Who Really Cares Fairport Convention: What We Did On Our Holidays Fairport Convention: Unhalfbricking Fairport Convention: Liege & Lief Laura Nyro: New York Tendaberry the Who: Tommy the Kinks: Arthur Colosseum: Valentyne Suite Kevin Ayers: Joy Of a Toy It was also quite a year!

Yeah, actually, I agree with you. Yes' debut does sound more like Time and a Word than Aersosol sounds like The Least We Can Do to me too. Nice list. I;ve been into the Family album of late, by the way (should have been on mine, and some others on your list, and for the 60s generally, I love Family's Music in a Doll's House from 1968 too).

Edited by Logan - February 23 2018 at 23:37

I don't mind people mentioning other albums, but I like it when people comment on and choose from the choices and mention their picks, such as how Prog Sothoth did (and if they think of other albums, choose ones that have has as many parallels to the choices as possible). And I'm generally fine with people joining in on discussion even if they don't have a pick as I am interested in reading what people think, the associations they make etc. and I like discussion. I like it when people think laterally and outside the box (sometimes I address ten things in a single post, and I'm happy when people ramble off into new territory). It does sometimes bug me, though, when someone just says an "other" choice without even attempting to comment on the selection. There's a reason why I choose to link albums, and part of the fun for me in polls is figuring why people may have related certain ones and what does it say about that person (getting inside the mind of the OP). But don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for The Dark Elf and enjoy his wit, articulateness and contributions to the forum, so I'm just speaking in generalities in response (there's no one in this thread that I don't enjoy the contributions of enough to be bothered by tangents etc. from...).

None of these three that I listed is my favourite album from 1969. I chose these three as "debut" albums from 1969 which are lower rated than subsequent albums by the bands, and are not considered to be albums where the classic sound was fully formed, and all three, one might argue, have proto-prog elements.

Stand Up is a very good second album, and is my favourite Jethro Tull album. Had I done a general 1969 album list then it and In the Court might well be listed (both highly rated albums), but the JT album I would sooner compare to these three would 1968's Benefit (also one of my favourite JT albums). One of my favourites from 1969 is Soft Machine's second album, but again I don't think it would fit what I was thinking about. That would smoke any of these three for me and Soft Machine's first from 1968 would beat them too. Lots would beat In the Court and Stand Up for me too.

Anyway, it's not a great poll, and I don't think Genesis fits the list that well (was going to do just the Yes and VdGG as I find them more comparable, but I felt that the Genesis fit in reasonably well despite being lower-rated and more different from the band's subsequent efforts).

From the 60s, not just 1969, some of my favourites are:

Amon Düül II - Phallus Dei
Can - Monster Movie
Alpes & Catherine Ribeiro - Catherine Ribeiro + 2Bis
Kraftwerk (Organisation) - Tone Float
Miles Davis - In a Silent Way
Fifty Foot Hose - Cauldron
Soft Machine - Volume II
Soft Machine - Volume I
White Noise - An Electric Storm
Arzachel - Arzachel
The Zodiac: Cosmic Sounds
Pink Floyd - Piper at the Gates of Dawn
Pink Floyd - A Saucerful of Secrets
Pink Floyd - Ummagumma
Kevin Ayers - Joy of a Toy
The Advancement - The Advancement
David Axelrod - Song of Innocence
Colosseum - Valentyne Suite
Mort Garson - The Wozard of Iz: An Electronic Odyssey
The Incredible String Band - The 5000 Spirits Or The Layers Of The Onion
The Incredible String Band - The Hangman's Beautiful Daughter
Writing on the Wall - Power of the Picts
High Tide - Sea Shanties
Tea and Symphony - An Asylum For The Musically Insane
The Open Window - The Open Window
Holy Music - Malachi
Captain Beefheart - Safe as Milk
Captain Beefheart - Trout Mask Replica
The Pentangle - Basket of Light
East of Eden - Mercator Projected
Renaissance - Renaissance
Procol Harum - Shine on Brightly
King Crimson - In the Court of the Crimson King
Santana - Santana
Forest - Forest
Jethro Tull - Stand Up
Jethro Tull - Benefit etc.

If I start thinking about ones included in Proto Prog/ Prog Related and not at the site, then my list would grow much more. Terry Riley deserves special mention for his early albums and in terms of just enjoyment, I love Ennio Morricone.

Edited by Logan - February 23 2018 at 22:07

∆ Well yup, and that King Crimson album wasn't too shabby either.

Out of these, VdGG gets my vote by a hair over Yes.

I suppose Yes,,,,but I don't play any of them anymore.

You're walking along the road one day up comes a man dressed all in gray

YES

Hercules wrote: None of them.