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Hrychu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2018 at 10:09
If I had to pick a really bad prog act, it would be Agents of Mercy. Bland prog by the numbers with annoying vocals.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrek the Progre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2018 at 10:55
KANSAS there said it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2018 at 10:58
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

From what I've heard I actually think Big Elf are pretty good. Better than Magic Elf.

Magic Elf is a great prog-fusion trio that sounds nothing like Big Elf (heavy psych-prog that is shamelessly retro). 

I like Big Elf's Closer To Doom and Hex. They do appear to be stuck in a bit of a rut after that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rednight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2018 at 14:23
Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

About ears hurting I saw Mars Volta as a support act to Red Hot Chili Peppers some year in the begin of 2000. I haven´t heard them before, they´re playing so loud that everything was just big mess, also Bixler-Zavalas high vocals sounded just ridicilous in the middle of that mess. Really didn´t like them at all then, later borrowed their album from the library and understood they´re great band.
No, they're not. A friend tried to foist Mars Volta off on me claiming they were along the lines of the second coming. Wrong. Bored me to tears. My pick among a limited knowledge of prog is Starcastle. Obnoxiously derivative of Yes, these wannabes just rubbed me the wrong way, musically and conceptually. Freakin' awful.
"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mathman0806 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2018 at 15:25
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

OK, we've had "Sad Prog," how about "Bad Prog?"  

Prog that is so bad, you can't keep quiet about it any longer! 

I'm happy to nominate Big Elf as the first entry in "Bad Prog."  I saw them as an opening act for the Dream Theater's "Progressive Nation" tour, and my ears still hurt.  There something sacrilegious about playing TWO Mellotrons at once!!  Here, enjoy.....



I am not familiar with Big Elf, but I found the video enjoyable in a Spinal Tap-ish sort of way. Of course, if it wasn't meant to be humorous ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2018 at 15:39
Darren Reddick made a habit of playing too much Dream Theater , Spock's Beard , Transatlantic , Neal Morse and probably as a result killed his Prog show on Planet Rock . None of those are actually bad but they don't leap out as bands that take a chance.
My own pick is probably The Flower Kings in terms of going on endlessly with no real point whatsoever. However pulled it back with Banks of Eden which is actually very good. I thought the last Anglagard was very poor but it had to be brilliant because of the long wait. Denial is not just a river in Egypt. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2018 at 23:05
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

I have never heard of the band in OP's post, and now my ears are upset.

LOL Yeah, imagine how I felt when they slogged onstage before Dream Theater!  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2018 at 23:08
Originally posted by mathman0806 mathman0806 wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

OK, we've had "Sad Prog," how about "Bad Prog?"  

Prog that is so bad, you can't keep quiet about it any longer! 

I'm happy to nominate Big Elf as the first entry in "Bad Prog."  I saw them as an opening act for the Dream Theater's "Progressive Nation" tour, and my ears still hurt.  There something sacrilegious about playing TWO Mellotrons at once!!  Here, enjoy.....



I am not familiar with Big Elf, but I found the video enjoyable in a Spinal Tap-ish sort of way. Of course, if it wasn't meant to be humorous ...

I've played in a Spinal Tap tribute band called "Casual Cro Bar," in which I did "Nigel" honors.  I know Spinal Tap, Spinal Tap are "friends" of mine.  

Big Elf are no Spinal Tap, they actually think their act is cool.  I guess there are some who like them.  

Me in Casual Crowbar...deliberately bad art-project rock!  We did "Baby's On Fire," the kids dug it!  I did Eno vocals and Fripp lead guitar, badly. 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tapfret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2018 at 16:31
This thread has inspired me to listen to Pallas - The Sentinel again. Not quite as bad as I recall it, but definitely NOT good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2018 at 16:50
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

This thread has inspired me to listen to Pallas - The Sentinel again. Not quite as bad as I recall it, but definitely NOT good.

The debut is ok if you ask me, their follow up album The Wedge is the dud in their discography. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2018 at 16:53
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

This thread has inspired me to listen to Pallas - The Sentinel again. Not quite as bad as I recall it, but definitely NOT good.

I owned a copy of this at the height of my neo prog phase circa 1985, and I listened to it with gusto many times. But even then, in my heart of hearts, I knew it was a bit sh*t.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tapfret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2018 at 17:09
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

This thread has inspired me to listen to Pallas - The Sentinel again. Not quite as bad as I recall it, but definitely NOT good.

I owned a copy of this at the height of my neo prog phase circa 1985, and I listened to it with gusto many times. But even then, in my heart of hearts, I knew it was a bit sh*t.

That statement pretty much summed up my Dream Theater listening days. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2018 at 18:35
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

This thread has inspired me to listen to Pallas - The Sentinel again. Not quite as bad as I recall it, but definitely NOT good.

The debut is ok if you ask me, their follow up album The Wedge is the dud in their discography. 

When it comes to Pallas, I love the very first release, 1981's Arrive Alive and almost nothing else.  I think the live versions of Crown of Thorns and The Ripper are the best things they ever did.  As far as the Sentinel, I really wanted to love it and gave it a ton of listens, but other than Cut and Run nothing really grabbed me...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2018 at 00:11
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

This thread has inspired me to listen to Pallas - The Sentinel again. Not quite as bad as I recall it, but definitely NOT good.

The debut is ok if you ask me, their follow up album The Wedge is the dud in their discography. 

When it comes to Pallas, I love the very first release, 1981's Arrive Alive and almost nothing else.  I think the live versions of Crown of Thorns and The Ripper are the best things they ever did.  As far as the Sentinel, I really wanted to love it and gave it a ton of listens, but other than Cut and Run nothing really grabbed me...

Arrive Alive? Is that an official release? Never heard of it. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2018 at 13:13
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

This thread has inspired me to listen to Pallas - The Sentinel again. Not quite as bad as I recall it, but definitely NOT good.

Pallas is one band from the '80s UK neo scene I've never been able to get into. To varying degrees, where Twelfth Night, IQ, Pendragon, Jadis, Landmarq, no problem.

Pallas? Just can't get into them...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2018 at 14:19
Thanks for all your contributions!  OP here, a few thoughts....

a) "beauty is in the eye of the beholder."  What many of us consider to be "bad prog," others may worship.  Indeed, scoring a recording contract is a notable undertaking, so even "bad" prog acts like the aforementioned Big Elf are noteworthy for that achievement.  Well done, Big Elf!  Clap 

b) "Bad" prog follows somewhat the formula of "cheesy" prog that was once discussed on PA.  Let's take Starcastle, a band I knew in college & hung out with.  

 Talented?  No doubt, their musicianship was top-notch.  Derivative?  Yes, they rather proudly let it be known that they would be the US response to Yes (I once heard the vocalist proclaim "We're going to kick some Limey ass!").  Original?  Not so much.  Bad?  Indeed, they did produce some rather putrid prog, and after the first LP I found them to be unlistenable except for rare efforts.  

I walked out on a Marrillion concert once because it was bad and boring, nearly slept through a Porcupine Tree show because it was extremely boring (and they were even filming it for a DVD!).  Sometimes fine musicians have bad shows or make bad music, it is expected to happen sometimes.  

That being said, there are genuinely bad prog acts.   I had never heard of "Torman Maxt" until I started this post, and after listening to some on YouTube and reading reviews on PA, I can definitely confirm them to be "bad prog."  I detest prog music that tries too hard, particularly if it attempts to hitch itself to the Bible.  Ugh.


Edited by cstack3 - March 14 2018 at 14:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2018 at 17:30
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

This thread has inspired me to listen to Pallas - The Sentinel again. Not quite as bad as I recall it, but definitely NOT good.

The debut is ok if you ask me, their follow up album The Wedge is the dud in their discography. 

When it comes to Pallas, I love the very first release, 1981's Arrive Alive and almost nothing else.  I think the live versions of Crown of Thorns and The Ripper are the best things they ever did.  As far as the Sentinel, I really wanted to love it and gave it a ton of listens, but other than Cut and Run nothing really grabbed me...

Arrive Alive? Is that an official release? Never heard of it. 


Yes.  It's their very first album released 3 years before The Sentinel!  A friend let me borrow his vinyl version years ago and the song selection was much smaller than the current release extended CD version.  Also, the version of Crown of Thorns was different (and much better) on the vinyl than on the CD release which was clearly recorded at a different show.  Beware though, Arrive Alive is very rough around the edges and seriously unpolished compared to their studio albums...much higher energy and raw but I think that's part of why I love it Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2018 at 18:22
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Thanks for all your contributions!  OP here, a few thoughts....

a) "beauty is in the eye of the beholder."  What many of us consider to be "bad prog," others may worship.  Indeed, scoring a recording contract is a notable undertaking, so even "bad" prog acts like the aforementioned Big Elf are noteworthy for that achievement.  Well done, Big Elf!  Clap 

b) "Bad" prog follows somewhat the formula of "cheesy" prog that was once discussed on PA.  Let's take Starcastle, a band I knew in college & hung out with.  

 Talented?  No doubt, their musicianship was top-notch.  Derivative?  Yes, they rather proudly let it be known that they would be the US response to Yes (I once heard the vocalist proclaim "We're going to kick some Limey ass!").  Original?  Not so much.  Bad?  Indeed, they did produce some rather putrid prog, and after the first LP I found them to be unlistenable except for rare efforts.  

I walked out on a Marrillion concert once because it was bad and boring, nearly slept through a Porcupine Tree show because it was extremely boring (and they were even filming it for a DVD!).  Sometimes fine musicians have bad shows or make bad music, it is expected to happen sometimes.  

That being said, there are genuinely bad prog acts.   I had never heard of "Torman Maxt" until I started this post, and after listening to some on YouTube and reading reviews on PA, I can definitely confirm them to be "bad prog."  I detest prog music that tries too hard, particularly if it attempts to hitch itself to the Bible.  Ugh.

thanks again for the PM.. you really are a doll man...


sorry to have introduced you to Torman Maxt... there is a story there..  bad prog is everywhere.  The reason Torman Maxt has achieved legendary status here is quite another...  payola for promotion, removed negative reviews... and general profit driven owner interference with collaborators leaving in anger. Great times man... I don't pick on [email protected] for the hell of it. He earned it..


 I do feel pity for many of the newbies here. You all really missed a lot of wild west sh*t in the earlier days of this site.  Made Mexican soap operas tame in comparison. .we had it all ..sex.. murder,  attempted murder.. corruption..  bribary..  slander... intellectual thievery.. 

now a wild day for the site is when someone creates a non Genesis, non Camel, non SWilson poll hahah


ANYHOW...   what do you think Charles about the notion of prog for prog's sake being in teh category of bad prog.   If you understand what I mean... run with it.. if not.. I'll explain just what I mean by that later.
I find your lack of Bassoon disturbing.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hercules Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2018 at 03:41
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Rare Bird are pretty bland. I just can't get into them. Lazy and boring!!!

Jesus! I think As Your Mind Flies By is one of the greatest bits of prog - ever.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2018 at 06:23
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

so everything one does not like becomes bad prog? 

Well how can it be different?

Personally I'm still balking after all these years at the fact that King Crimson were happy to release the Earthbound live album. OK it's radical and KC have always liked to be radical. But it's radical in the first place by being the worst production ever. Haha, before I actually bought it I read a positive review of it in the German Sounds. What is wrong with these people's ears? Well ultimately it's only "bad prog" by means of my dislike. If anybody loves it, fine by me. (Still have your ears checked Wink)
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