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If You're New to Prog, Don't Start With Rush

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SteveG View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2018 at 10:13
Starting with Yes is probably safe too. Very complicated music for sure but very accessible IMO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2018 at 10:16
Originally posted by Stool Man Stool Man wrote:

If you're new to prog, don't start with just one band, regardless of who they are.

Spend a few hours online trying out all kinds of things, then when you have several names that you feel like exploring in more detail, go ahead.


Yeah, I agree but I've noticed a lot of people just focus on one band, especially Rush and nobody else. I'm not saying all Rush fans are like this but many just seemed to be so obsessed with them they don't care about any other bands. 

I think age has something to do with it too. Younger fans seem to stick their noses up at Yes or Genesis or maybe just think of them as classic rock or pop bands or something and therefore gravitate towards Rush and Dream Theater and prog metal. At least that's been my observation. I remember talking to one(younger) guy at a show who was big into Rush but the only Yes he had was 90125. Well, no wonder. You start with that one and you might assume they weren't really prog. I told him to explore the earlier stuff but it possibly fell on deaf ears. His loss. 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - April 06 2018 at 10:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2018 at 10:23
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by Jeffro Jeffro wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

You've been a RUSH fan longer than I've been alive! Tongue LOL Clap

Is that supposed to make me feel good? Wink

That's entirely up to you, my friend Tongue.

Still, you have more context for prog as it happened than I do. For that, I'm humbled and respectful in all ways possible! I tell my father how envious I am that he saw YES on the CTTE and Relayer tours. YES was my introduction, so I'm probably very biased.

Ironically, I'm still one of the newer ones to prog, at least within the context of much of the user base on this site. There's still so much to explore and this site gives me something new to sample every day. I only wish I had found this place 10 years before I did. 

And certainly nothing wrong with Yes as an introduction. Clap For me, my earliest prog was Yes, Rush, Tull, and if you believe that they were proto-prog, The Beatles.

Oh, and I'm envious of your dad too. I never got to see Yes in concert. 


Edited by Jeffro - April 06 2018 at 10:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Argo2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2018 at 10:32
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Stool Man Stool Man wrote:

If you're new to prog, don't start with just one band, regardless of who they are.

Spend a few hours online trying out all kinds of things, then when you have several names that you feel like exploring in more detail, go ahead.


Yeah, I agree but I've noticed a lot of people just focus on one band, especially Rush and nobody else. I'm not saying all Rush fans are like this but many just seemed to be so obsessed with them they don't care about any other bands. 

I think age has something to do with it too. Younger fans seem to stick their noses up at Yes or Genesis or maybe just think of them as classic rock or pop bands or something and therefore gravitate towards Rush and Dream Theater and prog metal. At least that's been my observation. I remember talking to one(younger) guy at a show who was big into Rush but the only Yes he had was 90125. Well, no wonder. You start with that one and you might assume they weren't really prog. I told him to explore the earlier stuff but it possibly fell on deaf ears. His loss. 

I know what you are saying. I have run in to some Rush fans like that ( & i'm a big Rush fan) I think some  guys ( guys more than women) fall in to what I call the harder, louder, faster category. They tend to like heavy stuff and shy away from some of the softer more melodic aspects of band like Yes, Genesis, Tull, KC...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barbu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2018 at 10:57
I've started with Rush (Moving Pictures to Hold Your Fire)! The first listens were absolutely horrible (that voice, man) but I knew the guy who introduced me to them had good musical tastes so I kept listening...it clicked after a couple of weeks but it was no easy task.

My Yes journey started, a couple years later, with Topographic Oceans and it was even worse.

If you're new to prog and think it will be easy, don't start listening to it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2018 at 11:26
Originally posted by Barbu Barbu wrote:

I've started with Rush (Moving Pictures to Hold Your Fire)! The first listens were absolutely horrible (that voice, man) but I knew the guy who introduced me to them had good musical tastes so I kept listening...it clicked after a couple of weeks but it was no easy task. 

What was wrong with Geddy's voice in that period? He was past the high pitched shriek stage by that point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2018 at 11:35
Originally posted by Jeffro Jeffro wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by Jeffro Jeffro wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

You've been a RUSH fan longer than I've been alive! Tongue LOL Clap

Is that supposed to make me feel good? Wink

That's entirely up to you, my friend Tongue.

Still, you have more context for prog as it happened than I do. For that, I'm humbled and respectful in all ways possible! I tell my father how envious I am that he saw YES on the CTTE and Relayer tours. YES was my introduction, so I'm probably very biased.

Ironically, I'm still one of the newer ones to prog, at least within the context of much of the user base on this site. There's still so much to explore and this site gives me something new to sample every day. I only wish I had found this place 10 years before I did. 

And certainly nothing wrong with Yes as an introduction. Clap For me, my earliest prog was Yes, Rush, Tull, and if you believe that they were proto-prog, The Beatles.

Oh, and I'm envious of your dad too. I never got to see Yes in concert. 

Right on! That's part of the reason why I love this community; lots of perspectives and history in one spot. YES is the best!
Jazz fusion all day, baby.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barbu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2018 at 11:35
Originally posted by Jeffro Jeffro wrote:

Originally posted by Barbu Barbu wrote:

I've started with Rush (Moving Pictures to Hold Your Fire)! The first listens were absolutely horrible (that voice, man) but I knew the guy who introduced me to them had good musical tastes so I kept listening...it clicked after a couple of weeks but it was no easy task. 


What was wrong with Geddy's voice in that period? He was past the high pitched shriek stage by that point.

Yeah, but it was a real turn off nonetheless. Maybe a good thing my first wasn't one the earlier records, would have surely take much longer to appreciate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2018 at 12:24
too much emphasis on Geddy's voice... what was really cringworthy during those prog years was not his voice. It was those horrible Peart lyrics. While Geddy's voice was.. umm.. distinctive.. and for many, including myself, quite endearing.. those absolutely terrible lyrics can ruin the prog rush experience.

that said...  Rush is a good entry point for new people to Rush.  Get it out of the way quickly.. weed them out quicly. if you are put off by silly hyper intellectualism by muso's no smarter than the guy who cleans your toilets at the office and often painfully bad lyrics. You need not apply further with prog hahaha.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2018 at 13:22
I started with prog and didn't get into Rush.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote noni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2018 at 13:39
I've tried so hard to like Rush,  but just can't get into their music...  I've played a few tracks from YouTube but have not enjoyed what they have made...

My first Prog music was Genesis, ELP, Enid, Camel, Greenslade, Rick Wakeman, PFM, Certain Yes music, Stackridge, Supertramp and the Nice...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2018 at 13:50
Rush is awesome. Always loved them. Been a long time now!

Opeth? Pass. ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2018 at 15:02
Originally posted by Argo2112 Argo2112 wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Stool Man Stool Man wrote:

If you're new to prog, don't start with just one band, regardless of who they are.

Spend a few hours online trying out all kinds of things, then when you have several names that you feel like exploring in more detail, go ahead.


Yeah, I agree but I've noticed a lot of people just focus on one band, especially Rush and nobody else. I'm not saying all Rush fans are like this but many just seemed to be so obsessed with them they don't care about any other bands. 

I think age has something to do with it too. Younger fans seem to stick their noses up at Yes or Genesis or maybe just think of them as classic rock or pop bands or something and therefore gravitate towards Rush and Dream Theater and prog metal. At least that's been my observation. I remember talking to one(younger) guy at a show who was big into Rush but the only Yes he had was 90125. Well, no wonder. You start with that one and you might assume they weren't really prog. I told him to explore the earlier stuff but it possibly fell on deaf ears. His loss. 

I know what you are saying. I have run in to some Rush fans like that ( & i'm a big Rush fan) I think some  guys ( guys more than women) fall in to what I call the harder, louder, faster category. They tend to like heavy stuff and shy away from some of the softer more melodic aspects of band like Yes, Genesis, Tull, KC...


Well, maybe Yes and Tull etc are bands they just haven't been exposed to much or maybe their parents liked them. What I'm basically getting at here also is that there is a hip or "cool" factor. I'm not sure how much mellowness figures into it because they like Pink Floyd and not just because they are so obvious but because they are also seen as being cool. So there's the social approval/peer pressure factor which makes them decide to like certain bands(at least to some degree imo). 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - April 06 2018 at 15:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2018 at 15:05
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Starting with Yes is probably safe too. Very complicated music for sure but very accessible IMO.

I agree especially if they are open minded and can get past the fact that most of their fans(and thus those who show up at their concerts)are probably old enough to be their parents(if not grandparents). That is assuming the people getting into prog for the first time are in their twenties or younger(which actually might not be the case). 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - April 06 2018 at 15:06
When you list all the qualities that you despise and you realize you're describing yourself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2018 at 16:28
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Starting with Yes is probably safe too. Very complicated music for sure but very accessible IMO.

I agree especially if they are open minded and can get past the fact that most of their fans(and thus those who show up at their concerts)are probably old enough to be their parents(if not grandparents). That is assuming the people getting into prog for the first time are in their twenties or younger(which actually might not be the case). 
 
I don't couldn't get into Yes (which had a lot to do with the vocals) but instantly loved King Crimson, Genesis, Jethro Tull... and only started enjoying Fragile & Close to the Edge sometime after VdGG, GG, Residents... the whole Canterbury Scene, Avant, Kraut the italians... 

I don't think just recommending seemingly "accessible" prog will do the trick if you don't know who you're trying to convince. Lets say you have a friend into Velvet Underground and Sonic Youth - Yes would probably be completely wrong. They're not that great for people coming from the less perfectionistic -or darker music scenes. King Crimson Red among the classics could work better as a start - or perhaps something like Ege Bamyasi by Can... or other Krautrock-classics. That's the kind of approach that makes sense to me. In my experience extreme metallers tend respond more positively to Zeuhl, R.I.O or early Progressive Electronic than symphonic prog. So I agree with most of this post:   
Originally posted by Larkstongue41 Larkstongue41 wrote:

In my experience, it's best to introduce people to prog through highly singular and creative bands. The people I've exposed to traditional symphonic prog i.e. Yes, Genesis, ELP (based on the assumption that these classic bands would not alienate them as much as some other stuff) have all developed an automatic dismissal of anything remotely close to prog rock territory. Not everyone I've suggested to check out King Crimson have become fanatics but in every case their interest for rock music was greatly enhanced and sometimes even born. I think Pink Floyd is the only truly safe choice here and even then...

It obviously depends on the individual and their prior experience with music. Prog is so large that I have to believe that every single hearing person could find at least one prog album they like. You could recommend Soft Machine to a jazz fan, Banco to someone who's into classical music, Rush or Yes for classic rock fans, Kayo Dot for metalheads, Tangerine Dream for people who like ambient, Art  Zoyd for someone into avant-garde and improv, Tortoise for hip-hop and so on. Just find out one thing they generally like and go from there. The key is to find something timeless.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2018 at 16:44
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:


I don't couldn't get into Yes (which had a lot to do with the vocals) but instantly loved King Crimson, Genesis, Jethro Tull... and only started enjoying Fragile & Close to the Edge sometime after VdGG, GG, Residents... the whole Canterbury Scene, Avant, Kraut the italians... 

I don't think just recommending seemingly "accessible" prog will do the trick if you don't know who you're trying to convince. Lets say you have a friend into Velvet Underground and Sonic Youth - Yes would probably be completely wrong. They're not that great for people coming from the less perfectionistic -or darker music scenes. King Crimson Red among the classics could work better as a start - or perhaps something like Ege Bamyasi by Can... or other Krautrock-classics. That's the kind of approach that makes sense to me. In my experience extreme metallers tend respond more positively to Zeuhl, R.I.O or early Progressive Electronic than symphonic prog.

It obviously depends on the individual and their prior experience with music. Prog is so large that I have to believe that every single hearing person could find at least one prog album they like. You could recommend Soft Machine to a jazz fan, Banco to someone who's into classical music, Rush or Yes for classic rock fans, Kayo Dot for metalheads, Tangerine Dream for people who like ambient, Art  Zoyd for someone into avant-garde and improv, Tortoise for hip-hop and so on. Just find out one thing they generally like and go from there. The key is to find something timeless.

Interesting that Fragile and Close to The Edge didn't click with you until after VDGG! Usually the other way around for most.

It definitely takes a kind of finesse to nudge a friend into prog; knowing where they're coming from is paramount to success IMO. Most people won't go for RUSH simply because of the vocals and the weirdness of the music...but some YES stuff can be hard to swallow vocally, and equally as weird. Your friend(s) might dig either/or depending on what they're currently into!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2018 at 17:38
I would imagine a lot of people can't get into Yes because of the vocals(including my late grandmother). It's too bad because a)I think Jon Anderson is(was) a great singer and b)there's a lot of great(and interesting) stuff musically going on. Not to step on the toes of fans of other bands or anything but I really kind of think prog as a whole would be at least slightly different if it weren't for Yes. I suppose you could say the same thing by substituting Yes for King Crimson, Pink Floyd and Genesis too though. 

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - April 06 2018 at 17:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2018 at 18:05
Rush rules!!!

If You're New to Prog, Don't Start With Rush (CAN)




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2018 at 20:18
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

too much emphasis on Geddy's voice... what was really cringworthy during those prog years was not his voice. It was those horrible Peart lyrics. While Geddy's voice was.. umm.. distinctive.. and for many, including myself, quite endearing.. those absolutely terrible lyrics can ruin the prog rush experience.

that said...  Rush is a good entry point for new people to Rush.  Get it out of the way quickly.. weed them out quicly. if you are put off by silly hyper intellectualism by muso's no smarter than the guy who cleans your toilets at the office and often painfully bad lyrics. You need not apply further with prog hahaha.  

You seriously think Rush lyrics are bad? I can honestly say I think this is the first time I ever heard anyone say that. I actually think quite the opposite. I think they are some of the best lyrics not just in prog but in music period. I would love to hear who you think has better and more intelligent lyrics. 
When you list all the qualities that you despise and you realize you're describing yourself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2018 at 23:07
Peart lyrics bad????? Crazy off beat opinion, rather silly. I would not call them bad but Yes lyrics are pretty nuts and make very little sense.....Way too many bowls of hash and too much meditating.
LOL


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