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wiz_d_kidd View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 12 2018 at 07:25
This was the title of an article written by Steven Hayward in a blog called Power Line.  In it, he cites a psychological study that performed personality tests on a group of 22,252 individuals, and then asked them to rate different snippets of previously unpublished music.  The study concluded that people who liked sophisticated music were more open.  He concluded that sophisticated music refers to prog rock -- even though he admits a "deplorable taste for prog rock".  There are some interesting comments to his article that follow.  The article can be found here: http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/04/prog-rock-vindicated.php

So, do you think prog rock fans are more "open", than say pop or country music fans?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2018 at 10:38
I'm not a psychologist, so I don't know. Based on my observations of posts on these forums, I'd say some are open, and some are not so open. I think they lean more open overall, but personalities are a lot more complex than this.

Anyway, the original article and supporting material is located here: https://osf.io/nfqb9/

In the Study 1 folder, and then in the Materials subfolder is a zip file containing all the excerpts used in the study. Not everything in the "Rock/Sophisticated" section is prog rock. I recognized Pink Floyd's Comfortably Numb and a Police song. I didn't recognize the other pieces. There are different levels of complexity to each one.

I think the blogger who posted about this article is making an intellectual leap I don't think the results necessarily support. Statistically, open personalities are interested in sophisticated music is the only conclusion I can come up with; the key words being "statistically" and "sophisticated." The original article itself makes no mention of progressive rock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2018 at 11:06
Just from personal experience with friends and family I'd say prog listeners are more open...at least to various forms of music. I have some country, pop, etc in my collection and while not a big fan I will listen to other forms of music.....yet I know close family and friends who simply have no interest at all in prog but regularly listen to pop and country. Not a proper study but I'm betting that indicates a general trend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Quinino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2018 at 11:55
In this day and age "studies" can (and do) be tailored to allow any and every conclusion one desires - that's the true state of things and no use denying it IMO.
So we're left with the goo'old Common Sense to clear our way thru the plethora of un/useful information floating around and try to take sensible conclusions whenever possible.

On this matter I would risk to say YES ! Prog lovers might well be more musically open-minded - but  does that reflect on other aspects of personal taste (artistic or otherwise) ?
We'll have to make a study GeekWacko

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2018 at 12:27
I'd say more open minded people might fall into and enjoy progressive rock.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2018 at 13:32
As in any group of people, some are open minded, some are not, and some are somewhere in the middle. Prog fans are not different. I guess it's a common factor in any human society, where radicals and liberals, open and close minded, traditionalist and innovators, and those who are in between, are all in the mix. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2018 at 18:58
I have found that most prog fans like a lot of other kinds of music besides just prog. I think a good number of us started out with classic rock which has a lot of variety in and of itself. For me personally prog helped expose me to jazz, folk, classical, elecronic(a) and metal to name just a few. 
These days I mainly just talk to plants and dogs. All human contact seems painful, risky odd....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smurph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2018 at 21:27
If prog fans really are open minded, why do older dudes that listen to Rush seem to try to turn me away every time I talk about the importance of teaching veterinarians how to give horses sex reassignment surgery?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2018 at 09:43
Originally posted by Smurph Smurph wrote:

If prog fans really are open minded, why do older dudes that listen to Rush seem to try to turn me away every time I talk about the importance of teaching veterinarians how to give horses sex reassignment surgery?

LOL
These days I mainly just talk to plants and dogs. All human contact seems painful, risky odd....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote axeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2018 at 01:00
If I were to reveal my politics or faith--neither of which have I  discussed here--you might not be convinced that "openness" could be a part of me. But "openness" is a sort of consideration of a potential logical complement.
And logical complements are fraught with self-reference paradoxes. (How open are we to the value of "openness"?)

So I want to reflect on what role those behaviors taken as "openness" plays in listening to prog. My wife does not enjoy listening to my music. She says it "gives her a headache". She listens to pop. Although I can't tell you just how she processes it, I can reflect on my long history of her personality. She is not as patient as me. 

Prog doesn't "get to the point". It doesn't "get in your ear", and "make you tap your toe" like it was some neural hacking scheme. I listen to prog. Over the years, I've learned how to detect altered restatements of themes, by listening to what the artist is saying. 

I reflect on my first reaction to Return of the Giant Hogweed, the night I bought Nursery Crymes. Buyer's remorse. It seemed a mess. However I learned from Hogweed, eventually, that some of what initially turns you off as discord can become that interesting part of the music. Crymes has become my second favorite Genesis album, behind Selling England, where I had to learn to choke down Banks' odd harmonies on Battle of Epping Forest--not to mention an off-the-wall quirky delivery by Gabriel. 

And when you reach the end of one group's catalog, you have to start looking for that interest in other bands--which will refuse to be just like your "gateway band". So you learn to accept bursts of rockabilly guitar in your prog (Howe) or straight up, raw blues riffing (Green in GG), or some sort of man on a mission to push the boundaries of rock music relevance like Fripp, and love Larks Tongues in Aspic. 

Marillion refused to be "more Genesis" for me. They did more than He Knows, You Know. You have to move on and listen to more bands. And the best ones are going to want to tell you different things in their music.


Edited by axeman - April 14 2018 at 01:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Junges Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2018 at 01:50
I'd say you certainly find more open-minded people in the Prog area, but that is not to say that you don't find closed-minded people too. There are many proggers who never go out to explore other genres outside prog and even worse: they stay in the little comfort zone of symphonic and neo-prog and think that's all there is. Or the people who think prog rock made after the 80s is all sh*t and they only listen to stuff made in the 70s.

It costed me a lot to get into Death and Black Metal and to appreciate growls. I hated it for most of my life. But if I had just given up for good and ignored EVERYTHING with growls, I would have missed the chance of finally learning to appreciate it, as I do now. The same with RIO/Avant-Prog and Zeuhl. They are my favorite sub-genres of Prog nowadays, but I couldn't stand them before. I think there is a certain "musical maturity", and most people prefer not to grow up and expand their tastes. They are quick to dismiss stuff and say "I don't like it, period." 

Surely there are still genres I don't listen to.. the more commercial, mainstream ones. And I think I will never be able to appreciate them, because they are mostly made for the purpose of selling records and are more concerned with how the artists look and their attitude than the music itself.


Edited by Junges - April 14 2018 at 01:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2018 at 07:12
Originally posted by wiz_d_kidd wiz_d_kidd wrote:

 
So, do you think prog rock fans are more "open", than say pop or country music fans?

put in that context... I'd say no they are not.  Music fans, not prog fans, are openminded... and they like not just good prog.. but good pop and yes.. do have day dreams about getting high with Willie on his tour bus and jamming with him afterward.

however 'prog fan'  how can one say they are openminded when they dismissive of pop and country (to say nothing of .. ummm.. more urban based music) as fans of those would be of prog.
I find your lack of Bassoon disturbing.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2018 at 07:30
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by wiz_d_kidd wiz_d_kidd wrote:

 
So, do you think prog rock fans are more "open", than say pop or country music fans?
...
however 'prog fan'  how can one say they are openminded when they dismissive of pop and country (to say nothing of .. ummm.. more urban based music) as fans of those would be of prog.

Hmmmm ... I think I would rather get caught with Madonna, Reba, or .... I have to think now and have a cigarette. Lots of exercise on this idea and thread!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2018 at 07:38
oh I have had my daydreams about Madonna as well...  well.. to be fair.. the slutty 80's material Girl Madonna. Oh I how I loved the 80's and big hair.. but I digress.

to me this is nothing more than a more polite way of prog fans setting themselves up high..  openminded?.. no... just another code word for thinking themselves more intellgent, cultured and refined haha than fans of more 'simple' or mundane topical genres of music.
I find your lack of Bassoon disturbing.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiz_d_kidd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2018 at 10:15
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

oh I have had my daydreams about Madonna as well...  well.. to be fair.. the slutty 80's material Girl Madonna. Oh I how I loved the 80's and big hair.. but I digress.

to me this is nothing more than a more polite way of prog fans setting themselves up high..  openminded?.. no... just another code word for thinking themselves more intellgent, cultured and refined haha than fans of more 'simple' or mundane topical genres of music.


But prog fans had no choice in the matter -- they weren't setting themselves up for anything.  22,000 people participated in a personality test to determine their openness (unbeknownst to them), then asked to rate the music they liked (from all forms of music).  There was a strong correlation between openminded people, and those who liked "sophisticated" music.  The term "prog" never came into it, except afterwards when the author of the article concluded (rightly or wrongly) that sophisticated music = prog.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tapfret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2018 at 11:19
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

I'm not a psychologist, so I don't know. Based on my observations of posts on these forums, I'd say some are open, and some are not so open. I think they lean more open overall, but personalities are a lot more complex than this.

Anyway, the original article and supporting material is located here: https://osf.io/nfqb9/

In the Study 1 folder, and then in the Materials subfolder is a zip file containing all the excerpts used in the study. Not everything in the "Rock/Sophisticated" section is prog rock. I recognized Pink Floyd's Comfortably Numb and a Police song. I didn't recognize the other pieces. There are different levels of complexity to each one.

I think the blogger who posted about this article is making an intellectual leap I don't think the results necessarily support. Statistically, open personalities are interested in sophisticated music is the only conclusion I can come up with; the key words being "statistically" and "sophisticated." The original article itself makes no mention of progressive rock.


I did the same download and listen. I think your critique of the OP linked blogger is spot on. "Sophisticated " is in no way "code for prog rock". I would additionally critique the studie's nomenclature, "sophiscated, intense, unpretentious, contemporary" as categorically unquantifiable. The most quantifiable was "contemporary", but really had no specific genre it addressed, although I would say it encompassed the " more likely to be heard on current radio formats" set of samples. Really, those descriptive subset' s genre dependence was purposefully very loose.

Anyway, the study was about musical preferences being a predictor of psychosocial open mindedness, not willingness to listen to other music genres.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2018 at 11:39
How much of it is people's perception of "sophisticated" meaning "elitist snob", and thus avoid progressive rock in fear of being associated with that?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2018 at 14:05
Originally posted by wiz_d_kidd wiz_d_kidd wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

oh I have had my daydreams about Madonna as well...  well.. to be fair.. the slutty 80's material Girl Madonna. Oh I how I loved the 80's and big hair.. but I digress.

to me this is nothing more than a more polite way of prog fans setting themselves up high..  openminded?.. no... just another code word for thinking themselves more intellgent, cultured and refined haha than fans of more 'simple' or mundane topical genres of music.


But prog fans had no choice in the matter -- they weren't setting themselves up for anything.  22,000 people participated in a personality test to determine their openness (unbeknownst to them), then asked to rate the music they liked (from all forms of music).  There was a strong correlation between openminded people, and those who liked "sophisticated" music.  The term "prog" never came into it, except afterwards when the author of the article concluded (rightly or wrongly) that sophisticated music = prog.

fair enough... but do take note.. that my responses were directed not as this study.. but at your bringing prog fan into this at the end of the post.. much I suppose as this article author did.  

Was prog fan more openminded is what I think you asked.. is it vindicated is what he asked.  

Prog fan is IMO no more openminded than others are... and add in the procivity as I've seen time and time again through the years on this site for them to be snobby, elitist and dismissive of other forms of 'lesser' music.. I'd tend to say they are even less openminded for most country fans, pop, rap fans could care less about prog.. if you like it..  good for you.. ie.. you don't see those fans sh*tting on prog for being ... whatever it is hahah.  The only people that really care about prog.. are its fans... and they seem to care more about what other people listen to than others care what they are listening to.

call prog the evangelical branch of music if you will.. for it its own strange way.. the shoe fits...
I find your lack of Bassoon disturbing.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoeDent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2018 at 13:28
I'd say certain people who listen to prog are pretty close-minded, despite what they might try to tell themselves. Look at their reaction to anything that even reeks of apparent "commercialism" or "pop". Look at the reaction to the last Steven Wilson album, especially a track like Permanating, from certain corners of our universe.

They might feel they're open-minded, and take pride in this, but their reaction to certain things tells us otherwise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2018 at 14:45
Originally posted by RoeDent RoeDent wrote:

I'd say certain people who listen to prog are pretty close-minded, despite what they might try to tell themselves. Look at their reaction to anything that even reeks of apparent "commercialism" or "pop". Look at the reaction to the last Steven Wilson album, especially a track like Permanating, from certain corners of our universe.

They might feel they're open-minded, and take pride in this, but their reaction to certain things tells us otherwise.

Not only that but also the way they react to eighties Yes and Genesis and anything that's the slightest bit commercial. It's not just prog fans though because there's a certain elitist and snobbism that is prevalent in many music forums and online sites. You see a lot of that on rate your music as well. For me personally I'm not a huge fan of most pop music but I'm more tolerant of it when it's done by prog musicians or if it has some kind of relationship to rock. Therefore I don't hate Perry era Journey for example or much of arena rock. Even I draw the line somewhere and don't care much for hair metal(or at least not most of what I've heard). A lot of people just don't want to expand their tastes and that's understandable to a point. 
These days I mainly just talk to plants and dogs. All human contact seems painful, risky odd....
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