King Crimson vs. Van der Graaf Generator

ProgMetaller2112 wrote: Cristi wrote: ProgMetaller2112 wrote: dr wu23 wrote: ^ LOL..... KC is kicking ass .....and taking no prisoners.   The Prog Archives say otherwise. They say that album for album VDGG wipes the floor with King Crimson in the 1970s.   wait, what?! Look at their ratings album for album. The only higher rated albums for Crimson are In the Court and Red. VDGG takes everything else in the 1970s. They are a more consistent band. 4 essential masterpieces of prog rock to 3 essential masterpieces of prog rock

Cristi wrote: ProgMetaller2112 wrote: Cristi wrote: ProgMetaller2112 wrote: dr wu23 wrote: ^ LOL..... KC is kicking ass .....and taking no prisoners.   The Prog Archives say otherwise. They say that album for album VDGG wipes the floor with King Crimson in the 1970s.   wait, what?! Look at their ratings album for album. The only higher rated albums for Crimson are In the Court and Red. VDGG takes everything else in the 1970s. They are a more consistent band. 4 essential masterpieces of prog rock to 3 essential masterpieces of prog rock your poll question is about preference, so bringing up ratings does not help. You should know by now that KC is pretty much unbeatable in polls in the forum (whether you like it or not, it seems more like "not"). Maybe Magma has a chance against KC, I don't know.

that's because of the unfounded claim that KC made the first prog album, which is nothing but a myth

ForestFriend wrote: BaldJean wrote: the only reason they are not so popular and fare less in this poll is that many people don't like Hammill's voice. I on the other hand love Hammill's voice I love Hammill's singing, but I just think King Crimson has better songs in general.

I consider the songs to be pretty on par, with perhaps a slight edge towards VdGG. I love their kind of "Faust aufs Auge" compositions (hard to translate German phrase; literally "fist to the eye". "round peg in a square hole" comes close but doesn't quite get it) like for example "Man-Erg". I also like how they sometimes combine two different riffs from a song, a slow one and a fast one, and play them both at the same time

Fact? No, entirely subjective.

ProgMetaller2112 wrote:   Yeah it sure is and people generally prefer Hammill and his crew to Fripp and Co. Just stating fact based on PA's ratings and reviews

rogerthat wrote: ProgMetaller2112 wrote:   Yeah it sure is and people generally prefer Hammill and his crew to Fripp and Co. Just stating fact based on PA's ratings and reviews Eh, only KC has a top 5 album (ITCOTCK) and two albums in the top 10 (the other being Red) with only VDGG album (Godbluff) in the top 10 (in the last spot). KC's LTIA also ranks higher than Pawn Hearts.  After that, you've got H to He at no. 36 and Still Life way down at no.54.  If you want to argue over no.36 and no.54, carry on.  It's clear that the top 3 KC albums comprehensively beat the top 3 VDGG albums on popularity.

this has, however, not always been so. for example, when Friede and I joined the archives in 2005 both "Pawn Hearts" and "Godbluff" were 5 star albums, with both of them being in the top 10, and if I remember right the former even being in the top 5.

what probably happened is that many newcomers find it easier to get into KC than into VdGG, and thus their ratings went down.

some of the 5-star ratings for ITCOTCK are actually quite surprising because the reviewers make it clear how much they hate "Moonchild", which is a major part of the album, yet still give 5 stars to ITCOTCK. wtf?

Edited by BaldJean - April 23 2018 at 19:08

rogerthat wrote: ProgMetaller2112 wrote:   Yeah it sure is and people generally prefer Hammill and his crew to Fripp and Co. Just stating fact based on PA's ratings and reviews Eh, only KC has a top 5 album (ITCOTCK) and two albums in the top 10 (the other being Red) with only VDGG album (Godbluff) in the top 10 (in the last spot). KC's LTIA also ranks higher than Pawn Hearts.  After that, you've got H to He at no. 36 and Still Life way down at no.54.  If you want to argue over no.36 and no.54, carry on.  It's clear that the top 3 KC albums comprehensively beat the top 3 VDGG albums on popularity.

If we look at it album for album, ratings wise VDGG is the more consistent band. Let's take a look. This will probably surprise many

In the Court > The Aerosol Gray Machine

In the Wake < The Least We Can Do

Lizard < H to He

Islands < Pawn Hearts

Larks Tongues < Godbluff

SABB < Still Life

Red > World Record

5-2, VDGG on top ratings wise


Edited by ProgMetaller2112 - April 23 2018 at 19:28

ForestFriend wrote: Actually, if you take the average ratings of the King Crimson and VdGG Generator albums from the 60s/70s, Crimson comes out slightly higher. I don't think anybody's claimed King Crimson to be a consistent band anyways.

dr wu23 wrote: ProgMetaller2112 wrote: rogerthat wrote: ProgMetaller2112 wrote:   Yeah it sure is and people generally prefer Hammill and his crew to Fripp and Co. Just stating fact based on PA's ratings and reviews Eh, only KC has a top 5 album (ITCOTCK) and two albums in the top 10 (the other being Red) with only VDGG album (Godbluff) in the top 10 (in the last spot). KC's LTIA also ranks higher than Pawn Hearts.  After that, you've got H to He at no. 36 and Still Life way down at no.54.  If you want to argue over no.36 and no.54, carry on.  It's clear that the top 3 KC albums comprehensively beat the top 3 VDGG albums on popularity. If we look at it album for album, ratings wise VDGG is the more consistent band. Let's take a look. This will probably surprise many In the Court > The Aerosol Gray Machine In the Wake < The Least We Can Do Lizard < H to He Islands < Pawn Hearts Larks Tongues < Godbluff SABB < Still Life Red > World Record 5-2, VDGG on top ratings wise You are cherry picking the early albums in order to create a false comparison.....why in order?   ....the simple fact is as I posted that KC overall is higher in their ratings when looking at the actual catalog of both bands which is the only fair way to evaluate.

Not cherry picking. Just giving a head to head comparison. Prog Archives also says that VDGG has 4 "masterpieces" while KC only has 3.

;)

dr wu23 wrote: ProgMetaller2112 wrote: dr wu23 wrote: ProgMetaller2112 wrote: rogerthat wrote: ProgMetaller2112 wrote:   Yeah it sure is and people generally prefer Hammill and his crew to Fripp and Co. Just stating fact based on PA's ratings and reviews Eh, only KC has a top 5 album (ITCOTCK) and two albums in the top 10 (the other being Red) with only VDGG album (Godbluff) in the top 10 (in the last spot). KC's LTIA also ranks higher than Pawn Hearts.  After that, you've got H to He at no. 36 and Still Life way down at no.54.  If you want to argue over no.36 and no.54, carry on.  It's clear that the top 3 KC albums comprehensively beat the top 3 VDGG albums on popularity. If we look at it album for album, ratings wise VDGG is the more consistent band. Let's take a look. This will probably surprise many In the Court > The Aerosol Gray Machine In the Wake < The Least We Can Do Lizard < H to He Islands < Pawn Hearts Larks Tongues < Godbluff SABB < Still Life Red > World Record 5-2, VDGG on top ratings wise You are cherry picking the early albums in order to create a false comparison.....why in order?   ....the simple fact is as I posted that KC overall is higher in their ratings when looking at the actual catalog of both bands which is the only fair way to evaluate. Not cherry picking. Just giving a head to head comparison. Prog Archives also says that VDGG has 4 "masterpieces" while KC only has 3. ;) Yes,  you are cherry picking....you are choosing to use the early albums in order  only to compare...why?   that's cherry picking by definition.....as I already pointed out...(you must not have read this)... Looking at the bands catalogs overall VDGG is slightly lower. And where on PA does it say masterpieces...? That's most likely the opinion of whoever wrote the article not  a PA consensus.....again you are cherry picking.  Let's get the facts straight here.

Ok, let me break it down a bit. When you click on an album on PA it will have some liner notes and where the particular album ranks. The highest quality is obviously a masterpiece. It goes like this:

First tier says, "Essential, a masterpiece of prog rock music."

Second tier says, "An excellent addition to any prog rock collection."

Third tier says "Good but nonessential"

The last one says "Collectors,fans only"

Look at that

;)

Edited by ProgMetaller2112 - April 23 2018 at 19:58