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Bubblegum Prog |
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Jeffro 
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Joined: March 29 2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 2028 |
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 Posted: May 01 2018 at 05:44 |
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I just think your premise that the music they produced in the 80s was primarily motivated by greed is flat out wrong. Yes, every band wants to be successful and make money. However, as I said, if Rush really wanted to go that route, they should have made another album that sounded like MP. THAT'S where the money was. All I can tell you is what I have seen and read in countless interviews, books, and Beyond The Lighted Stage. In all of that one theme has always come through. Rush has always moved forward and they always thought that their latest release was better than the last. (something that I don't always agree with) They may explore some similar themes and sounds from album to album but they never make the same album again. I would have loved it if they had made another Farewell To Kings or Hemispheres but that's not what they are about nor have they ever been about that. Rush doesn't really do nostalgia. The closest they got to that would be the album, Feedback. They have also stated in interviews why they stopped making longer songs. (although their last three albums contain some songs that break the 6 minute mark) Edited by Jeffro - May 01 2018 at 05:50 |
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16125 |
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Posted: May 01 2018 at 07:43 |
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Hi,
I think the name for the band "2018 Fruitgum Corporation" ... would be appropriate!  |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Mortte
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Joined: November 11 2016 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 5538 |
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Posted: May 01 2018 at 07:51 |
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siLLy puPPy
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PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 14702 |
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Posted: May 01 2018 at 08:48 |
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Here is your answer. A veritable Electric Light Orchestra clone. Complete with slick pop sweetness and adventurous compositional constructs. Enter the BUBBLE GUM ORCHESTRA   |
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 https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
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cstack3
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VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 6740 |
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Posted: May 01 2018 at 14:09 |
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From Wikipedia: Bubblegum pop (also known as bubblegum music or simply bubblegum) is a genre of pop music with an upbeat sound contrived and marketed to appeal to pre-teens and teenagers, which may be produced in an assembly-line process, driven by producers and often using unknown singers. The 90125 Yes was essentially an engineered product, fusing Yes West with Anderson. OAALH was a radio single that appealed to the bubble-gum audience, which gave Yes a much needed financial boost. Other examples could include Asia (Heat of the Moment), GTR and a handful of other AOR prog bands in that era. Not that all of the music was bad, but it was crafted for commercial success and aimed squarely at the little girl market. Edited by cstack3 - May 01 2018 at 14:12 |
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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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Cosmiclawnmower
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Joined: August 09 2010 Location: West Country,UK Status: Offline Points: 3034 |
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Posted: May 01 2018 at 15:43 |
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Barclay James Harvest released an instrumental glam/pop/bubblegum song 1n 1972 called 'Breathless' under the moniker of 'Bombadil'... listen to those glitter band hand clap/ foot stomps.. Apparently when 'The Wombles' were making hit singles such as 'remember you're a Womble' (ahem.. yes..) it was Mike Batt who had been producing Steeleye Span at the time so they ended up producing some of the musical backing... T Rex were definitely a teeny bop pop band verging on bubblegum.. and my wife will take a frying pan to me for saying it... yeah, glam I suppose like early The Sweet'... yet some of those songs are so so catchy and of course the early Tyrannosaurus rex phase was more interesting by far (but a lot less lucrative)
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brainstormer
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Posted: May 01 2018 at 17:24 |
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I just asked a YouTube prog guru: Can you rank best to worse The Banana Splits next??
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Robert Pearson Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net |
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brainstormer
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Posted: May 01 2018 at 17:25 |
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I meant bubblegum without qualitative judgement on it, just as a genre.
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Robert Pearson Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net |
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Kingsnake
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Posted: May 02 2018 at 02:07 |
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Almost all albums and singles are aimed at gaining succes.
Yes and Rush already had big hitsingles. They just tried something different and more modern when they entered the 80's. Trevor Horn was a producer and he helped Yes with their 80's albums but so was Tony Clarke who helped the Moody Blues and Rupert Hine who helped The Fixx and so on and so on. Even the Beatles had a fifth member (can't remember his name). Asia and Yes weren't aiming at preteen-girls, I think they more aimed at rock-fans. They wanted to be arenarock-bands like Journey and Boston and Chicago. Edited by Kingsnake - May 02 2018 at 05:17 |
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Jeffro
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Posted: May 02 2018 at 04:49 |
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Okay. I can agree to disagree. It's fine. I just can't consider 90125 to be anywhere near what I consider to be true bubblegum pop/rock. Just because music may be, as you say, an engineered product doesn't mean it's automatically analogous to bubblegum. |
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Cristi
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Posted: May 02 2018 at 04:58 |
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^ 90125 was an engineered product for teens and pre-teens?!
I think the band was surprised at the success of the album, it was not even supposed to be a Yes album. But I guess with 4 former Yes members, it made sense to call themselves Yes. I wonder had the band been called Cinema, would it have been as successful? A lot of bands/artists mentioned here are just an easy listen indeed, but that does not make them bubblegum. (the video posted above explains what bubblegum music is, it's pretty clear, so I'll say it again, no offense, there's no such thing as bubblegum prog).
Edited by Cristi - May 02 2018 at 05:35 |
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M27Barney
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Posted: May 02 2018 at 05:15 |
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I loved the banana-splits me, - when I was a kid - still smile when I hear the phrase - "Dear, Dear, Drooper" - but that's just me right?
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Jeffro
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Posted: May 02 2018 at 05:26 |
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I'm beginning to think he's putting us on by making statements like that |
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cstack3
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Posted: May 02 2018 at 10:21 |
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Not at all! Such image crafting was a feature of music back in that era (late 1970s through early 1980s). 90125 as a whole was not bubble-gum, but the single OOALH was. It was formulaic and derived specifically for radio play, something Squire had longed to do for many years, returning to the earlier roots of Yes, which had more of a pop sensitivity. Asia similarly had image crafting - I am sure that they were seeking to harvest the AOR audiences for successful bandts like Journey, but John Wetton was transformed from "signing bass player" of King Crimson and UK into "hunk bass player and front man." Pete Cetera, bassist and frontman from Chicago underwent the same transformation, and journeyman rocker Peter Frampton's visage graced the bedroom walls of many young ladies (I saw this at the houses of my friends, whose younger sisters had rooms dedicated to Frampton!). Genesis continued with the bubble gum formula, very successfully. At this point in their careers, I think old-time prog musicians decided that making complex music for fans like us was a losing proposition, financially. So, bubblegum prog did exist and even flourish for a while. |
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Jeffro
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Posted: May 02 2018 at 10:44 |
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I think all those bands started to follow a pop formula. Pop is not always bubblegum. I think that's where we are having our disconnect. You seem to want to equate all image crafting as bubblegum. I just don't see it that way. Just because John Wetton was singing Heat Of The Moment and had adopted a more commercial sound and look doesn't automatically make that song, bubblegum. Just because a song is formulaic and derived specifically for radio play doesn't automatically make it bubblegum. |
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brainstormer
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Posted: May 02 2018 at 11:13 |
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I was thinking of the sound engineering of Bubblegum. It had a kind of bounciness to it that you can hear in Karn Evil #9, 1st and 3rd Impression. Also, there can be a type of cavalier attitude in the singer's delivery at times.
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Robert Pearson Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net |
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dr wu23
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Posted: May 02 2018 at 11:40 |
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By definition ,as was posted by me and funny enough by Cstack also (from Wiki)....(contradicting his own position...), 'Bubblegum' was a specific type of pop genre for the late 60's/early 70's and only technically lasted for that time frame (the various bands are listed on that Wiki page)....there were of course a few bands that emulated that style like Sweet into the early 80's .
It was not a term referenced for any other types of pop rock, rock, or prog rock....so Bubblegum prog is a misnomer . What is being talked about here is more commercial prog rock.....and by that definition any band who had a radio friendly song/hit would be doing bubblegum prog rock....which imho is not Bubblegum music . I do not believe that Yes or Asia or ELO were writing these songs for teenyboppers and young girls but they were writing them to be more commercial to perhaps sell a record or two. That's not Bubblegum imho and the definitions on various web pages clearly show this . To call it bubblegum prog is playing fast and loose with the original intention of the term. Sigh....where;s Dean when you need him? ;)
Edited by dr wu23 - May 02 2018 at 11:48 |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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cstack3
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Posted: May 02 2018 at 12:49 |
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Thank you! I only know what I've witnessed, having spent time in the recording industry and as a practicing musician. Music producers always aim for the dispensable income stream, and the young are a prime target. This was parodied in the movie "This Is Spinal Tap," when the band was humbled for their draw to young, teen-age boys! That demographic built and sustained many bands including Kiss, and made them rich. I don't think serious audiophiles were collecting their LPs . When I think of "bubblegum," I think of music that might be played at a teenage girl sleepover party. OAALH was one of those songs, as were some songs by Frampton, Asia, Genesis/Phil Collins etc. Maybe I'm stretching the definition of "bubblegum" a bit, but that is how I witnessed it at the time. I doubt if they were playing much King Crimson at those parties. |
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Posted: May 02 2018 at 13:08 |
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^You could probably add all hair metal to that list as well although I doubt many people would refer to it as bubblegum despite the fact it appealed to mostly teenage girls. Heck, I know one woman who is actually a friend(ok more like an email buddy/facebook friend since I rarely see her)who is about 50 and was into that stuff at the time being that she's about the right age. Actually, she still likes a lot of that music! I tease her about it. She probably could easily make fun of my prog music too though.
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M27Barney
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Posted: May 02 2018 at 14:14 |
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Nice to see the disdain for 90125. I actually shagged a girl who had shagged Trevor Rabin. Six levels of separation and all that!
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M27Barney wrote:
I am an awful dancer - my one-foot dad-dancing moves are legendary at family parties - possibly due to the comic factor rather than any technical merit. 