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How hard is Apocalypse in 9/8 from Supper's Ready

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MarketSquareHero View Drop Down
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    Posted: May 31 2018 at 10:19
So I am reffering to the keyboard solo, which I am kind of proud I can easily play :D

What difficulty from 0 to 10 do you guys think it should be classified at?
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Lamneth View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lamneth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2018 at 12:43
Maybe you should be the one to answer that, since you're playing it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2018 at 12:46
Depends. If Rick Wakeman played it then I give it a difficulty rating of 4.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarketSquareHero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2018 at 13:38
Well I would give it a 6, but I wanted to know you guys' opinion kind of to compare myself to other keyboardists ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2018 at 14:35
I'm not a keyboard payer, but I believe with enough practice, you can master most any solo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hieronymous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2018 at 16:28
I think 6 sounds reasonable - it's not incredibly virtuosic, and yet not simplistic, plus it's over an odd time. 

I love the bass line - it sounds random if you aren't paying attention but it's actually a repeating pattern, and a lot of fun to play and put energy into. 

I guess that's another aspect - it's one thing to play along note-for-note, but to be able to perform it with a band is another thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ForestFriend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2018 at 19:21
I'd give it maybe a 3 or a 4, just because the keyboard world is filled with things that are much, much more difficult than it. I didn't find it really hard to play, although I haven't actually gotten around to learning the chords that he plays underneath the solo, so that would add another layer of difficulty if I actually got around to doing that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavydrum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2018 at 02:39
i can play the song song on drums but... it's not really the same :D 
i think the most difficult thing about playing that particular section, on any instrument, is to always keep your internal hearing fixed on the 9/8 meter and not to be distracted by all the stuff that's going on around you. 
didn't really answer your question but it's another point of view :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote O666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2018 at 02:52
With practice and hard try , You can play difficult solos but not as the Original version. IMO copy or colon is or are just technical side of music and everyone can earn this skill. For me , make and CREATE is valuable . 
ART is so faaaaaaaaaaaar from copy. Playing so difficult solos dont make an Artist IMO


Edited by O666 - June 01 2018 at 02:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2018 at 06:20
I think the OP is confusing learning to play a piece by repeating it time and time again with the difficulty of actually coming up with the piece in the first place.

You can learn anything by repetition, repetition, repetition. All guitar solos you hear on stage have been thought through a thousand times before. Let's suppose you sit there for 20 years and learn every single note Hendrix played. You go on stage, play it, note for note perfect. 

You've not really achieved anything except to copy someone elses' ideas. 

The real difficulty in music is learning to improvise and compose. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twosteves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2018 at 08:26
Don't think it's terribly difficult--Banks didn't care about difficult like Rick and Keith--he just played whats right for the song---I read Rutherford and Collins worked on the beat and Tony played over it---but what Banks does which is so great and he does it on many songs which is why he is the best keys composer---is he develops sections and changes the mood and know how to build to a great climax Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ForestFriend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2018 at 18:17
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

I think the OP is confusing learning to play a piece by repeating it time and time again with the difficulty of actually coming up with the piece in the first place.

You can learn anything by repetition, repetition, repetition. All guitar solos you hear on stage have been thought through a thousand times before. Let's suppose you sit there for 20 years and learn every single note Hendrix played. You go on stage, play it, note for note perfect. 

You've not really achieved anything except to copy someone elses' ideas. 

The real difficulty in music is learning to improvise and compose. 


Composition/improvisation and performance are completely separate aspects of music, and I don't feel there's anything unworthy about spending a lot of time dedicated to performing someone else's works. Plus, many people compose and improvise music that they are happy with, yet aren't at the level of performance that they want to be at.

You might as well scoff at composers and tell them that the real difficulty in life in brain surgery; if you're going to get on a high horse, might as well find a higher one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HackettFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2018 at 20:32
The solo is composed of a lot of notes of all equal duration. Nothing unpredictable about which notes are accented. The note selection seems to work in some sort of evolving cycle that feels more like an exercise than a lead. For myself, I find 9/8 a very intuitive time signature. Then again, I donít play keyboards. I donít really know whatís difficult on keyboards (other than everything), so Iím not giving a rating. Nevertheless, I do endorse everything twosteves said.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mirror Image Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2018 at 21:07
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

The solo is composed of a lot of notes of all equal duration. Nothing unpredictable about which notes are accented. The note selection seems to work in some sort of evolving cycle that feels more like an exercise than a lead. For myself, I find 9/8 a very intuitive time signature. Then again, I donít play keyboards. I donít really know whatís difficult on keyboards (other than everything), so Iím not giving a rating. Nevertheless, I do endorse everything twosteves said.

Hey HackettFan! Long time, no speak! Hope everything is going well for you.
ďMusic is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.Ē - Sergei Rachmaninov
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote genbanks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2018 at 21:13
Of course, the main thing on master Banks is on the composition...as Twosteves well said he didn't care much about the virtuous side, his objective was always to create the right ambient to the musical piece, and God that he did it. He was the chord designer of the band, and maybe one of the best on the prog universe, but he did great melodies too. But Apocalypse is just a creation with the addition of the four musicians, Phil, Mike and Tony, and Peter with these great melody line of the vocals. Songwritting is the key that made Genesis so grandiose, not virtuous playing, despiting all of them were great performers too. So to rate music about its difficulty alone, has not much sense for me. In fact you can listen many virtuous creations from Rick Wakeman or Keith Emerson, but almost never can reach the beauty of many of Banks cretions (IMO).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twosteves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2018 at 22:41
well said genbanksClap

you a very smart tasteful manBig smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HackettFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2018 at 22:55
Originally posted by Mirror Image Mirror Image wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

The solo is composed of a lot of notes of all equal duration. Nothing unpredictable about which notes are accented. The note selection seems to work in some sort of evolving cycle that feels more like an exercise than a lead. For myself, I find 9/8 a very intuitive time signature. Then again, I donít play keyboards. I donít really know whatís difficult on keyboards (other than everything), so Iím not giving a rating. Nevertheless, I do endorse everything twosteves said.


Hey HackettFan! Long time, no speak! Hope everything is going well for you.
I am good. You too? Iím excited to see you about the forum again! We need a good guitar thread, btw.
A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mirror Image Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2018 at 23:10
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by Mirror Image Mirror Image wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

The solo is composed of a lot of notes of all equal duration. Nothing unpredictable about which notes are accented. The note selection seems to work in some sort of evolving cycle that feels more like an exercise than a lead. For myself, I find 9/8 a very intuitive time signature. Then again, I donít play keyboards. I donít really know whatís difficult on keyboards (other than everything), so Iím not giving a rating. Nevertheless, I do endorse everything twosteves said.


Hey HackettFan! Long time, no speak! Hope everything is going well for you.
I am good. You too? Iím excited to see you about the forum again! We need a good guitar thread, btw.

Yeah, Iím doing pretty good. We do need a guitar thread, but the problem with that kind of thread is I have a hunch itíll turn into Ďmy favorite is better than your favoriteí with the way some members seem to post here.
ďMusic is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.Ē - Sergei Rachmaninov
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bedbug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2018 at 00:30
I don't think that solo is a particularly hard part to play although I've never sat down and tried to learn it so maybe it is......Ermm

The true beauty of it is in the composition and the melody.   As a lad I used to enjoy playing along with the guitar and/or bass parts in Apocalypse 9/8 - technically not that difficult, but maintaining the level of concentration to keep it going without making a mistake for the entire length of the part was always a challenge for me....maybe it's the same with the keyboard part...?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2018 at 03:58
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

I think the OP is confusing learning to play a piece by repeating it time and time again with the difficulty of actually coming up with the piece in the first place.

You can learn anything by repetition, repetition, repetition. All guitar solos you hear on stage have been thought through a thousand times before. Let's suppose you sit there for 20 years and learn every single note Hendrix played. You go on stage, play it, note for note perfect. 

You've not really achieved anything except to copy someone elses' ideas. 

The real difficulty in music is learning to improvise and compose. 

Nailed it. My father likes to say "Yeah, anyone can learn it once it's already a thing, but what about the guy that had to come up with it from scratch?"

Apples and oranges, yet people will still call it a sandwich instead of a fruit salad.

Lying on the hill; crawling over the windowsill into your living room...
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