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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2018 at 15:13
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

Crisis? When did Fox news start posting here? Why the hell does everything have to be full throttle hyperbole anymore? You forgot to post a photo of a Mellotron and a tassled lamè jacket in flames.
WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?!? 9-11!

LOL My first thought exactly!!  

First, let us welcome our Austrian friend!  I'd like to know more about prog in Austria!  

Second, rock in general is in "crisis," truly.  Sales of guitars (which are the foundation for most prog) are in free-fall, with major makes such as Gibson filing bankruptcy.  Much has been written about this topic: 


Third, musical tastes always change.  Big band jazz, barbershop quartet, etc. all used to represent the height of popularity, but no longer.  Prog's time may have come and gone.  

All of these musical idioms still have their adherents, although they are no longer ascendent.  I suspect 1970s' style Prog is in a similar position, although some bands like King Crimson have had a good run of it lately. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2018 at 15:27
Originally posted by iancat87 iancat87 wrote:

I mean most of "progressive rock" since the late Seventies hasn't been very progressive at all. A lot of the newer stuff is just rehashing ideas from older bands. I mean, I submitted my own album for inclusion into the database as being a new thing, but it was deemed "definitely not prog." I get it, it doesn't sound like Yes (frankly it is more akin in forms to Procol Harum or The Moody Blues). Meanwhile, for all of Wobbler's accolades on this site, I wouldn't say they're "progressive" in the truest sense of the word. They're very talented and write music that sounds like Yes and Genesis outtakes, but I wouldn't consider them as innovative or exploratory as the original prog bands, or the best of anything truly "progressive."

Reading the liner notes from the 40th anniversary edition of In The Court of The Crimson King got me thinking a lot about this, and delving into some other reading on prog.


Well if your talking symph and neo I'd tend to agree but check out the last couple of decades of Avant, Psyche, Post/Math and Metal sub genres and you'll find lots going on.

Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - June 12 2018 at 15:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FXM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2018 at 08:15
Thank you for the link to "New Prog Releases" Blog - that is an interesting site and a gargantuan task to undertake if the blog is by a single person.
However, I wouldn't be too concerned that Prog is becoming less popular over the last few years (it is a niche musical form to begin with, so I would think its fans are still loyal - although with an aging age base unfortunately they are probably dying off faster than younger people are discovering prog).

With over a 1000 prog releases in 2016 and 2017 listed on the blog that is hardly something that is dying out. But even those lists  are not comprehensive - I looked up 4 artists; Tangerine Dream, Klaus Schutze, Cosmic Ground and Spock's Beard. Only the Spock's Beard listing was up to date, there was nothing for Tangerine Dream since 2014, the last two releases by Cosmic Ground were not listed and the last release listed for Schutze was Shadowlands (2013). Possibly the Blogger was more enthusiastic in 2013-2014 hence the longer list of releases.

As regards the reduced number of new reviews  - as has already been noted Captcha may be putting some reviewers off. Another reason is probably just free time - I did some reviews in 2016 when work as a bit slow so I had the time to spend. Maybe with improving economic conditions since the crash of 2008-2009 some reviewers who were unemployed /underemployed are now in full employment, others who may not have been so busy a few years ago (like myself) are now too busy to devote the time to write reviews.


Edited by FXM - June 13 2018 at 08:15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CPicard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2018 at 09:23
To talk about a "crisis" just because a blogger has slowed down the activity on said blog... Isn't it a bit farfetched?

If we wanted to discuss SERIOUSLY about a crisis, it would be better to look at sales (records AND electronic formats - remember that a lot of record labels had bancamp pages, without forgetting King Crimson's own DGM FLAC stuff), at the audiences of prog-rock concerts and festivals or the number of releases per year.
What I could take as a sign of any crisis was the alarming message of Cuneiform saying that they would not release any new record in 2018 (but they still release some new stuff this month...)

In France, a lot of festivals encounter some serious financial problems (especially because the public powers don't want to spend money in cultural things anymore) - THAT is a sign of crisis, but it's maybe more a sign of a global crisis on many points than just a crisis in progressive rock...




Edited by CPicard - June 13 2018 at 09:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uduwudu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2018 at 04:56
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

The funny/weird thing is that despite all this decline for some 50 years, it is still here, and we still discuss it.

I do think that at the worst of times, adding a CAPTCHA thing hurts the general posting..


Seconded. I could not access the forum part of the site for ages. Tried and got bounced; it would not let me by no matter how many pictures of shop windows I clicked on...

... not sure whether to have taken it personally (can't blame anyone there...) or not...

Oh yes most forms of classical music have not lasted 50 years before a major shift and prog is a sub sub genre of "disposable" popular music... doing well. I think the cult of personality helps here...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2018 at 07:46
Originally posted by FXM FXM wrote:

...
 I looked up 4 artists; Tangerine Dream, Klaus Schutze, Cosmic Ground and Spock's Beard. Only the Spock's Beard listing was up to date, there was nothing for Tangerine Dream since 2014, the last two releases by Cosmic Ground were not listed and the last release listed for Schutze was Shadowlands (2013). 
...

I honestly think that this is a problem with the folks that call themselves "admin" here, and they not having the time to work on their chosen/given subject and information ... assuming they have the ability to update that information, which I imagine they have ... or what are they doing? Just dumping a couple of folks a day for spamming? But then, no one has added other premier composers that were progressive, and even Stravinsky and others are not discussed or considered ... symphonic is nothing but a mellotron, or just 2 keyboards together ... and has nothing to do with the compositions, most of which are not even symphonic at all!

The connections with "music" are gone, which suggests that the folks involved are not strong enough in that area, and the good ones ... well ... they post less and less, probably as disappointed as anyone else, that things are not improving and their desire and ability has been totally wasted. Unfortunately this will be the end of all "database" bound systems ... because they idea to waste space, and not make sense of the information. Maybe it will get looked at by some Martian in 250 years, and find out that ...geeee ... how could they have missed this group, or that group?

Reviews ... one of the worst parts of PA, for me. I had, some 5 years ago, offered to do some missing reviews, but the ones "missing" are some of the worst listings ever ... a "bootleg" double with a copy from the album ... an illegal release of 2 albums together ... a Spanish release of the same thing for the Spanish speaking audience, I guess! And worse ... singles ... as if they were separate from the albums.

Again, the concern, was not for the ARTIST at all ... but the number of entries that needed a review, were not proper entries at all ... and of course, some of the bios ... are worse than the blurbs in the old Melody Maker, or worse, in the worst dish/diaper rag ever the Rolling Stone.

Trust me ... if the interest was there to take this further it would ... it would just be someone with a little marketing know-how and interest, but at least one person on the top would have to stand aside some ... and I doubt that it will happen. As such, this means that these things will die off in time, and we all will go somewhere else ... ohhh yeah, I forgot ... 6 ft under!


... none of the hits, none of the time ... now you know what the art is all about!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iancat87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2018 at 08:12
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by iancat87 iancat87 wrote:

I mean most of "progressive rock" since the late Seventies hasn't been very progressive at all. A lot of the newer stuff is just rehashing ideas from older bands. I mean, I submitted my own album for inclusion into the database as being a new thing, but it was deemed "definitely not prog." I get it, it doesn't sound like Yes (frankly it is more akin in forms to Procol Harum or The Moody Blues). Meanwhile, for all of Wobbler's accolades on this site, I wouldn't say they're "progressive" in the truest sense of the word. They're very talented and write music that sounds like Yes and Genesis outtakes, but I wouldn't consider them as innovative or exploratory as the original prog bands, or the best of anything truly "progressive."

Reading the liner notes from the 40th anniversary edition of In The Court of The Crimson King got me thinking a lot about this, and delving into some other reading on prog.


Well if your talking symph and neo I'd tend to agree but check out the last couple of decades of Avant, Psyche, Post/Math and Metal sub genres and you'll find lots going on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2018 at 06:32
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by FXM FXM wrote:

...
 I looked up 4 artists; Tangerine Dream, Klaus Schutze, Cosmic Ground and Spock's Beard. Only the Spock's Beard listing was up to date, there was nothing for Tangerine Dream since 2014, the last two releases by Cosmic Ground were not listed and the last release listed for Schutze was Shadowlands (2013). 
...

I honestly think that this is a problem with the folks that call themselves "admin" here,
He wasn't talking about PA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2018 at 06:58
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Frankly, people are not actually buying the music any more. So musicians stop producing it. Supply and demand. 

This is a type of comment, that for me, PERSONALLY, is really sad.

Why would a Stravinsky bother? Or a Orff ... or anyone else? What is the point of the music, then? To specifically fill up some pockets?

I find this sad. If supply and demand is the reason for it all, then the whole thing is dead, and I wish folks like DS1965 some luck ... he's in the middle of thousands of others trying to grab a dollar ... and obviously not doing well, but then, with comments like this, it makes one wonder, how serious he really is about his own music, as a "progressive", "experimental", or anything else kind of music.

In the end, your dedication has to be so total, to your art, or its over. Your chances of making anything of it, without the dedication, is making things even more difficult for any musician out there. It's just sad to see these things out there, specially from musicians that try and have materials to show for their work.

Why would I bother buying Dave's next album when he is simply working on supply and demand? 

I wouldn't!


Thing is, Mosh, most people from here wouldn't, either. 

Mosh, you are very good at making comments about subjects where you have no actual experience. 

I get full analytics on Bandcamp so I can see who's been on the site, used it as a free radio station (and I have no doubt used a ripper to get the music out of it, in some cases) - now, this isn't specific to this site, but it's just endemic. No matter what platform you're on, people don't pay for music any more. 

Instead, they just use music sites as a free streaming app, despite their protests that they support musicians and buy music. Nope. I get most of my sales from outside this site. 

I am not in music for the money, but it gets wearing (not just for me) to keep producing music and see zero sales and support. I love the way you're telling me how my dedication has to be total and I have to keep producing music no matter what.... when you're not buying it. Or haven't made the effort to learn an instrument. 

20 or so years ago, you wrote an album. Fans supported bands buy buying that album, buying the merchandise, attending gigs... it was a two way relationship. Now it's a one way relationship with people producing music and "fans" just not putting their hands in their pockets. It's not just me, virtually every musician I know is disillusioned and struggling. 

I think you may also find that Stravinsky and Carl Orff lived in a pre internet age and had private incomes as well. 

If you want an example, look at the amount of action on the "free prog downloads" thread. It's virtually died. I just put up a 26 minute free jam and made yet another single freely available, I passed over my entire discography to a radio station here just for the hell of it (free radio play does not equal downloads or cash) and I go much more out of the way than a lot of other people to provide free music. 

Music, proper music, is dying as bands become more and more disillusioned with both the industry and the greed of those downloading for free. Musicians have become an endangered species, and those in niche music will probably go first. I'm now more interested in jamming with like minded musicians, I don't need an audience, if there's no money in it, why go to the considerable bother of venue and PA hire ?

So prog rock is in crisis, the deeper reason being that musicians are in crisis. Please take this as informed knowledge from a musician and not uninformed speculation. What can you do about it ?

"Buy the music, support the musician". To be honest. Don't take that as "buy my music", but please do buy some music at least. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2018 at 07:02
People will still produce "progressive" music, as - IMO - musicians don't set out to produce "progressive rock". Some people are classically trained or think in different ways or just want to produce complicated, unusual or different music. That just happens to be "progressive". 

The problem with this is that the music industry is now set up so you can't deviate too far from the norm and make enough to ends meet. After a while, most musicians will give up. This is nothing other than practicality. The idea that some musicians HAVE to produce music, even for free "or they're not musicians" is just wrong. That's like saying you're not a carpenter unless you build me a chair for free. Meanwhile, back in the real world......

So I don't think "prog rock" is in crisis. The entire (real) music world is. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2018 at 07:29
It would probably be more accurate to say MUSIC INDUSTRY IN CRISIS.

Music sales have been plummiting all across the board for years now.

In fact i recently read that Mozart as well as older music outsold new artists for the first time a couple years ago.

As many new artists as we add here will tell you that prog isn't in a crisis of being created.

The crisis is in musicians making a living. It also seems music is less important to the youth than it was in previous generations with all the newer distractions like video games and virtual reality just to name a couple things.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2018 at 07:33
Thanks, silly_puppy, I think I was trying to say that but splurted out too many words as I was just driven to distraction by another gem of Mosh's wisdom. 

I think your post sums it up better than I did. ;-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ReactioninG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2018 at 12:46
To those of us who don't like "new" "prog" and stop at, say, Marillion, then this is really a non-issue. Prog been dead a long time now... a lot of the artists are "too old to rock and roll-ol-ol," and some of them are old enough to be dead already.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2018 at 23:39
I stop mostly at seventies, Marillion is ok, but never thought it had anything really great. I don´t like for example Spock`s Beard, Porcupine Tree or Big Big Train. But I really like some old bands latest releases, like Hawkwind, Procol Harum, Strawbs & Roger Waters.

But then again there are some really great new progalbums that in this today´s popular music atmosphere not seem to get any attention. Finnish band Absoluuttinen Nollapiste made really great concept album serial "Pisara & Lammas 1 & 2" that I think if it had been made in the uk at seventies, it could have been in the group of greatest Genesis, Yes, Floyd, Crimson etc. albums. In 2010 decade it got few great reviews in Finland, now it seems nobody remembers it at all. Also that band had plans to do more concept albums, but now they seemed to stop wholly. I think its sad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2018 at 23:40
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

It would probably be more accurate to say MUSIC INDUSTRY IN CRISIS.

Music sales have been plummiting all across the board for years now.

In fact i recently read that Mozart as well as older music outsold new artists for the first time a couple years ago.

As many new artists as we add here will tell you that prog isn't in a crisis of being created.

The crisis is in musicians making a living. It also seems music is less important to the youth than it was in previous generations with all the newer distractions like video games and virtual reality just to name a couple things.
I agree wholly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2018 at 03:24
"Why would I bother buying Dave's next album when he is simply working on supply and demand? 

I wouldn't!"

Mosh, let me break it to you in simple terms so you can (hopefully) understand. Dave is NOT talking about people not buying just his music, though that is rightfully his primary concern.  I repeat, NOT just his music, but music in general.  You want amazing art?  Then pay for it.  One of my friends chucked a cushy assignment at Goldman Sachs (he has a computer science masters by qualification) and pursued music fulltime.  This was around 11 years ago. It has taken him this long just to get to the point of recording his first full length album and that only after a crowdfunding campaign where his 'crowd' of a few loyal friends (myself included) put up the money to help him record.  He has found the actual prospect of running a band with little money coming in and frequent lineup changes very frustrating.  I can pretty much see you typing out another harsh and holier-than-thou characterisation of my friend but hear me out while I say 10 years is a lot of time to invest in it.  I have seen him and his band play tight as f**k gigs only to be met with muted responses because prog rock, even of the contemporary variety with a lot of metal infused in it, is not everybody's cuppa. He has confided in me that he is open to the possibility of considering another career.  Not just because of the monetary issues but because even the artistic pay off is so low now.  Which it would be when there's no money coming in.  Even if YOU don't want money, you still need to pay the musicians working on your album, you need to pay the sound engineer, so on and so forth.  

Do I really need to spell out all this to you?  Please try sometimes to get to grips with reality.  It is always easy to sit in the armchair and ask artists to make tall sacrifices.  Which smacks of hypocrisy when listeners themselves don't want to sacrifice a piffling few pennies to buy music. If the music world is increasingly converging on a few big name pop/rock artists that people on this forum frequently complain as being bland (a complaint I agree with), it is also the outcome of the behaviour of listeners.  People will think twice to pay a charge of $3-4 to watch my friend's band at a small pub (the charge allows you to watch a few bands live for the night and not just his) but don't mind spending something like $400 or more to watch Justin Bieber lipsync in 'concert'.  So, wait, it's not even that people find spending on music itself an expensive proposition but that they only spend on stuff that boosts their vanity quotient.  You wanna be at a Bieber concert and get a group selfie.  Who cares what the quality of the musicianship is!  In such a scenario, listeners will only get the music they deserve.  Unfortunately, those of us who are trying to do their bit to support prog will also suffer with them in the process because we are too few in number and cannot support the scene by our own efforts.

Just a reminder before I conclude that my friend did in fact sacrifice a cushy job at a high paying MNC for not very satisfying artistic rewards.  Please consider that there are many such musicians out there like my friend who have, contrary to what you claim, made the sacrifices and still don't find their endeavour fruitful.  Because an ultimately materialistic audience only thinks they are fools for making this sacrifice.  An artist deserves at least to be recognised for his/her efforts, if not compensated commensurate to his/her efforts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote noni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2018 at 03:45
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

"Why would I bother buying Dave's next album when he is simply working on supply and demand? 

I wouldn't!"

Mosh, let me break it to you in simple terms so you can (hopefully) understand. Dave is NOT talking about people not buying just his music, though that is rightfully his primary concern.  I repeat, NOT just his music, but music in general.  You want amazing art?  Then pay for it.  One of my friends chucked a cushy assignment at Goldman Sachs (he has a computer science masters by qualification) and pursued music fulltime.  This was around 11 years ago. It has taken him this long just to get to the point of recording his first full length album and that only after a crowdfunding campaign where his 'crowd' of a few loyal friends (myself included) put up the money to help him record.  He has found the actual prospect of running a band with little money coming in and frequent lineup changes very frustrating.  I can pretty much see you typing out another harsh and holier-than-thou characterisation of my friend but hear me out while I say 10 years is a lot of time to invest in it.  I have seen him and his band play tight as f**k gigs only to be met with muted responses because prog rock, even of the contemporary variety with a lot of metal infused in it, is not everybody's cuppa. He has confided in me that he is open to the possibility of considering another career.  Not just because of the monetary issues but because even the artistic pay off is so low now.  Which it would be when there's no money coming in.  Even if YOU don't want money, you still need to pay the musicians working on your album, you need to pay the sound engineer, so on and so forth.  

Do I really need to spell out all this to you?  Please try sometimes to get to grips with reality.  It is always easy to sit in the armchair and ask artists to make tall sacrifices.  Which smacks of hypocrisy when listeners themselves don't want to sacrifice a piffling few pennies to buy music. If the music world is increasingly converging on a few big name pop/rock artists that people on this forum frequently complain as being bland (a complaint I agree with), it is also the outcome of the behaviour of listeners.  People will think twice to pay a charge of $3-4 to watch my friend's band at a small pub (the charge allows you to watch a few bands live for the night and not just his) but don't mind spending something like $400 or more to watch Justin Bieber lipsync in 'concert'.  So, wait, it's not even that people find spending on music itself an expensive proposition but that they only spend on stuff that boosts their vanity quotient.  You wanna be at a Bieber concert and get a group selfie.  Who cares what the quality of the musicianship is!  In such a scenario, listeners will only get the music they deserve.  Unfortunately, those of us who are trying to do their bit to support prog will also suffer with them in the process because we are too few in number and cannot support the scene by our own efforts.

Just a reminder before I conclude that my friend did in fact sacrifice a cushy job at a high paying MNC for not very satisfying artistic rewards.  Please consider that there are many such musicians out there like my friend who have, contrary to what you claim, made the sacrifices and still don't find their endeavour fruitful.  Because an ultimately materialistic audience only thinks they are fools for making this sacrifice.  An artist deserves at least to be recognised for his/her efforts, if not compensated commensurate to his/her efforts.

Great post!!  Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2018 at 03:54
Thanks, Rogerthat. 

Yes, I'm honestly not talking about my own music but making a generic point. Every single musician I know, as I think I mentioned, is struggling and disillusioned. Rogerthat's friend is sadly, a typical example. 

I think Mosh mentioned that 100% dedication was the key to being a musician was the key, and that's absolutely correct - God knows how he's sure, he isn't one - but the point to make is that many absolutely dedicated artists have almost reached the end of the road in sheer frustration. 

I've hardly released anything in two years. I have almost no interest in money (got a good day job) or "fame" - that's for the kids. Let's take my example, as an older (52) musician as being typical. I've had about 10 - 11,000 plays on Bandcamp. Complete plays are almost the norm for me, so I produce something enjoyable enough for the listener to sit through (or they're too idle to click the mouse !!! ) - I've had a few hundred downloads - guess what ? All the free stuff gets hoovered up. 

So, having tried everything, I release the entire digital discography - several albums, EPs, individual tracks - for less than about $3. I mail shot anyone who's downloaded anything from the site in 5 years. I get TWO buyers. 

Let's put aside the money for a moment and ask ourselves whether this is a fair two way arrangement with fans supporting bands.... ah. It patently isn't. Not just because of my example, but because I can tell that this is happening all across the board. I've got to say that most musicians I talk to feel like they're not attracting fans, but vultures who descend on the free stuff, and give nothing back. 

Most protest that they buy music. I have six years of analytics which says that they don't. 

The point here is not about money or fame but simply respect. I release lots of free music, or rather, used to. Over a gradual period, I though "what the hell is the point ?". If you look at the "free prog tracks" thread, that's ground to a halt. Yes, some bands will release the odd free track, to get noticed and grow an audience: they soon realise that neither releasing free tracks nor getting free radio play (and I've had lots) is actually going to convince people to actually pay for music. 

So there are seemingly no fans any more, only listeners. When I think about it, one of the great pleasures of music was actually bringing some kind of pleasure to likeminded people. But, with the general public devaluing music in such a way, I tend to think "all I'm going to do is watch the vultures descend again ", so the pleasure I get from music now is by playing with other musicians in jam sessions - for our own pleasure. No money, no respect, everyone grinding money out of artists in PA, venue and lighting hire - no sales to cover that or recording.... why bother ?

The worrying thing for you non musicians out there is that if I start thinking like that, so do a lot of other musicians. And I can see a sea change coming, to be honest. As mentioned, those of us (me included) who prefer older prog rock have a massive back catalogue to choose from, but new music will die. If real music is facing extinction, the weaker members will die first - specialised music with smaller audiences. With the massive commercialisation of music, all that will remain is commercial product which a few people can make money out of, but you can bet your bottom dollar that it won't be the artists. 

Mosh, in conclusion, as Rogerthat says, you are sitting in an armchair and making statements about subjects you don't really understand (which seems to have been the pattern for years, anyway, I'm sorry to say.) If you're not going to buy my music for whatever reason, great, don't, I'm really not bothered. 

If, however, you think you can demand that musicians carry on no matter what, even the ones you don't actively support, can I suggest you look up "King Canute" on Wikipedia ? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2018 at 04:14
If "I prophesise disaster" in the above post, and perhaps I'm being a bit harsh, I think that what will happen is....

There will be a few modern prog rock bands coming along. Youthful exuberance. Some of these will be pretty good, age is not necessarily a prerequisite for skill. 
They'll release some music: no one will put their hands in their pockets for it. It's like global warming, everyone knows it's happening, but it's someone elses' problem. 
The bands, after one or two albums, get totally disheartened and (to Mosh's chagrin) give up.  Prog rock albums usually take one or two iterations for ideas to get good and develop. So the best bits never happen.

Musicians, as I think I mentioned, then get the idea that involving the general public is just a headache and then either give up or play amongst themselves for their own entertainment. I can definitely see this happening more and more often. 

The result is that, yes, the music industry is in crisis and hence specialised music is in crisis. It's a sad state of affairs, and most likely inescapable, as a result of technological and societal change. 

One aside. Bands are now asking for kickstarters to release albums. In a lot of cases, the kickstarter fee is way above what the price it actually costs to record, mix and master an album. I've done complete albums for free for musicians, I do know the costs. What's happening is that bands, tired of being ripped off, are, in fact, returning the favour to the general public - "no fee, no play". The same token applies to concert tickets. If bands haven't made any money by record sales, ticket prices go up for concerts (mainly to line the pockets of promoters, who haven't had any money, either) or you get inflated festival tickets. This is the only way of getting money out of the "fans" and not one I subscribe to, either. 

But that's the way it seems to be going.... "supply and demand". 


Edited by Davesax1965 - June 16 2018 at 04:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2018 at 06:33
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

The result is that, yes, the music industry is in crisis and hence specialised music is in crisis. It's a sad state of affairs, and most likely inescapable, as a result of technological and societal change.
Certainly looks that way, doesn't it?

Not a lot those of us who actually care can do except to buy the CDs / vinyl / downloads (preferably from the artist, the label or Bandcamp), go to the gigs, and make it known that streaming doesn't meaningfully support artists. But it probably isn't enough to make much difference.
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