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1977 — a farewell to Prog’s golden era?

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paganinio View Drop Down
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    Posted: June 12 2018 at 23:45
Was 1977 the end of the golden era of Prog music?

I looked at the PA Top 100 albums and found a pattern.

  • Every year before 1978 (starting at 1969) had at least 3 albums in the top 100
  • Every year since 1978 had less than 3 albums (0, 1, or 2) in the top 100
  • 1977 was the last year to have more than two top 100 albums released


The number of albums by year:

1969 - 3
1970 - 5
1971 - 9
1972 - 11
1973 - 12
1974 - 11
1975 - 10
1976 - 5
1977 - 4
1978 - 2
1979 - 1
And it never got higher than 2 after that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2018 at 23:50
Yes it was.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2018 at 23:51
Indeed, the argument is convincing.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hercules Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2018 at 01:33
Older albums, more reviews.

Age breeds nostalgia, a sort of longing for an older simpler time and memories of great times at univ (well in my case), hence 1970s albums often get very high ratings which they probably don't deserve.

My top 10 prog albums would probably be (only 1 album per band):

1 The Snow Goose - Camel (70s)
2 The Tain - Horslips (70s)
3 The Storm - Moving Hearts (80s)
4 Folklore - Big Big Train (2010s)
5 Subterranea - IQ (1990s)
6 Second Life Syndrome - Riverside (2000s)
7 The Mountain - Haken (2010s)
8 Selling England By The Pound - Genesis (70s)
9 Free Hand - Gentle Giant (70s)
10 Midnight Mushrumps - Gryphon (70s)

So the 70s were arguably the heyday of prog, and 1977 is indeed probably the end of the Golden era, but plenty of amazing prog has been made since then.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote someone_else Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2018 at 02:22
Originally posted by paganinio paganinio wrote:


  • Every year since 1978 had less than 3 albums (0, 1, or 2) in the top 100
  • 1977 was the last year to have more than two top 100 albums released

  • That makes two. But there is a lot of consensus about 1977 marking the end of the classic era and I agree.

    As Hercules says, there has been made plenty of amazing prog afterwards as my own list reflects as well:

    1. Close to the Edge - Yes (70s classic era)
    2. Foxtrot - Genesis (70s classic era)
    3. Wish You Were Here - Pink Floyd (70s classic era)
    4. Selling England by the Pound - Genesis (70s classic era)
    5. Unfolded Like Staircase - Discipline (90s)
    6. Danger Money - UK (70s post-classic era)
    7. Köhntarkösz - Magma (70s classic era)
    8. Part the Second - Maudlin of the Well (00s)
    9. The Mountain Queen - Alquin (70s classic era)
    X. English Electric (Part One) - Big Big Train (10s)

    (This list may be subject to minor changes day by day)


    Edited by someone_else - June 13 2018 at 02:23
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    Mortte View Drop Down
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2018 at 03:00
    Really great prog albums from 1977, only a Farewell to Kings and Animals come into my mind. Wigwam´s Dark Album is of course also really good.
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2018 at 03:39
    may I clearly suggest that the best 1977 prog albums were not from the UK (or the US - I'm not a Happy The Man fan)??
     
    Switzerland had Islands' Pictures and Circus' Movin' On,
    Spain had Iceberg's Sentiments and the Basque psych-folk prog was kicking in...
    France had Potemkine, Carpe Dielm, Pulsar and Shylock - not to forget the extraordinary Plat Du Jour
    Argentina had Crucis...
    and I'm not even going to mention Italy... or Germany, FTM
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2018 at 03:54
    I believe 1977 was the year that Going For The One was released. So, yes.
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2018 at 07:06
    Personally I would say more like 78 or 79 but 77 was certainly the beginning of the end. However, some bands were just starting out either a year or two earlier or around then such as the Enid, UK, FM, Saga and Happy the Man. Also, a lot of non US and UK bands were just starting especially bands in Japan, South America and other parts of continental Europe. Also, it seems Rush were just getting started with their prog period around this time as well. I admit though by 1981 most of the mainstream prog bands were done doing prog(if they were even still around). Prog never really disappeared but instead it just went underground where it still is today(although admittedly not nearly as deep underground as it once was).
    When you list all the qualities that you despise and you realize you're describing yourself.
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2018 at 07:29
    Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

    Indeed, the argument is convincing.  

    That I have to go to the bathroom?

    Maybe it's my age!

    Tongue

    With one or two exceptions in the list, it looks like the rest of the world is flat and fell into the ocean. 

    It never existed!!!!!! If one goes by that list!


    Edited by moshkito - June 13 2018 at 07:31
    ... none of the hits, none of the time ... now you know what the art is all about!
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twosteves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2018 at 07:43
    think 77 was the beginning of the end---Dead
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miamiscot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2018 at 07:56
    For sure.
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2018 at 08:28
    I think so too. As many have already mentioned, there has been a lot of great prog written after 1977, still, the "Golden Era" of progressive music ended by 1977, seeing a decline in interest from the people, decreasing it's popularity, and making it a genre to be appreciated by a small group of dedicated fans.
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2018 at 08:41
    So far I agree but how do we explain the following classic albums?

    Camel- Nude (1981)
    Happy the Man- Crafty Hands (1978)
    Rush- Hemispheres (1978)
    Yes- Drama (1980)
    UK-same (1978)danger money (1979)
    King Crimson- Discipline (1981)
    National Health -Of Ques and Cures (1978)
    Plus a few Steve Hackett albums(Defector, Spectral Mornings etc)

    Also the following songs:

    Rush- Camera Eye(1981), Natural Science(1980), 
    Camel- Echoes (1978)
    Yes- On the silent wings of freedom (1978)





    Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - June 13 2018 at 15:53
    When you list all the qualities that you despise and you realize you're describing yourself.
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    CPicard View Drop Down
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CPicard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2018 at 09:07
    Wow.
    And it took us 40 years to realize that... Thanks to the forum, its members and the algorithms it generates.

    Okay, I try to shake the sarcasm off my mouth and just will add that, in most of books and articles I read about the subject (the rise and fall of Progressive Rock), the music critics rather talk about 1974/75 as the end of the so-called Golden Age of Prog Rock.

    The fact that a lot of reviews on THIS site focus on a eight-year span (and barely explore beyond the 80's and beyond UK classical bands) is only a statistical measure that one should take with caution: even if it matches more or less the common idea of the end of the 70's as the "fall" of the genre, it's only a tool.

    I guess that if one tried to use the same approach (i.e. looking at charts on a website to determinate if a genre was dying or resurrecting in the 20's, the 70's or 22th century) on another website, one could declare: "the decline of Progressive Rock started in 1980 because no one reviewed and gave 5 stars on 15 prog-rock records after this year" - followed by another statement saying: "no, it started in 1973, because there's no 5 star records after this year"... Just because the two "reviewers" use the charts of 2 differents websites to do their "studies".

    In a shorter way of telling the tale, the PA charts tell no surprise, everyone for 30 years had said Progressive Rock lost a lot of its "grandeur" after 1975, after the dissolution of King Crimson, the departure of Peter Gabriel from Genesis, the awkward pauses of Yes and ELP...
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2018 at 09:12
    Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

    So far I agree but how do we explain the following classic albums?

    Camel- Nude (1981)
    Happy the Man- Crafty Hands (1978)
    Rush- Hemispheres (1978)
    Yes- Drama (1980)
    UK-same (1978)danger money (1979)
    King Crimson- Discipline (1981)
    National Health -Of Ques and Cures (1978)
    Plus a few Steve Hackett albums(Defector, Spectral Mornings etc)

    Also the following songs:

    Rush- Camera Eye(1981), Natural Science(1980), 
    Camel- Breathless (1978)
    Yes- On the silent wings of freedom (1978)



    -that ten nice albums (I only like a few of them myself though) - none of them genredefining classics in any way, doesn't mean their part of a "golden era". Surrealism lost its momentum in the 60's 70's but it doesn't mean it got shut down for good - or that it's impossible to locate some nice surrealist works from the 1980's. 
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2018 at 09:32
    You know what? If it's a good album, then it's a good album. I never understood the argument that something is superior because it's "more important" or "genredefining" or some big words like that. I'd say Memento z Banalnym Tryptykiem by SBB and Triatricet by Blue Effect (both released/recorded after the golden age, both neither British nor Italian) are IMO better than the "important" Supper's Ready. If I cared about the "extra importance" and "genredefiningness" I'd probably like Supper's Ready more. But personally, I'm more of a sound searcher. I don't care about the background and zeitgeist. If it sounds good, has quality songwriting, lyrics and playing... it's as good as the so called important albums.
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2018 at 09:46
    Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

    You know what? If it's a good album, then it's a good album. I never understood the argument that something is superior because it's "more important" or "genredefining" or some big words like that.
    Too bad for you - I've always understood that. Let's for the sake of the argument that Wobbler's latest is as just good in every way as the ten defining progclassics of the early 70's. If were discussing golden era and such one have to look at historic importance and influence. I don't really do that when i simply listen to music but this is a discussion.

    A "perfect Baroquepainting" made just recently will be of less importance than Caravaggio no matter what. It doesn't mean your not allowed to personally enjoy the former painting more though.
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2018 at 10:21
    I mean, in theory I do understand that. But I personally never rate any albums with their level of importance in mind and what I don't get is why people might rate an album higher because it's more important. In terms of discussig history, it's absolutely fine. Still, to me, it's the musical side of things that matters the most.
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2018 at 15:59
    Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

    Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

    So far I agree but how do we explain the following classic albums?

    Camel- Nude (1981)
    Happy the Man- Crafty Hands (1978)
    Rush- Hemispheres (1978)
    Yes- Drama (1980)
    UK-same (1978)danger money (1979)
    King Crimson- Discipline (1981)
    National Health -Of Ques and Cures (1978)
    Plus a few Steve Hackett albums(Defector, Spectral Mornings etc)

    Also the following songs:

    Rush- Camera Eye(1981), Natural Science(1980), 
    Camel- Breathless (1978)
    Yes- On the silent wings of freedom (1978)



    -that ten nice albums (I only like a few of them myself though) - none of them genredefining classics in any way, doesn't mean their part of a "golden era". Surrealism lost its momentum in the 60's 70's but it doesn't mean it got shut down for good - or that it's impossible to locate some nice surrealist works from the 1980's. 

    Well, some might argue that the first UK album at least is genre defining and an argument could also be made for Moving Pictures(even though I forgot to mention it). However, for the most part I agree with your statement. My only point in mentioning them is that those few seemed to have slipped through the cracks and could maybe be seen as one last gulp of air before the genre went to sleep for a while. Also, I meant to say the song "echoes" from the album Breathless and not the title track. Actually a better example would probably be "ice" from the follow up album. ;)


    Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - June 13 2018 at 16:01
    When you list all the qualities that you despise and you realize you're describing yourself.
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