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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2018 at 08:19
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

As such, ten fouls on Neymar in a game, should have brought on a review more than once, and even showed a couple of cards, but it was ignored. Likewise, taking away goals, and not giving penalties when it should ... just tells you that FIFA told the referees, that do not wish to rely on VAR fo resolve games. 


They only approved VAR for four items in the World Cup, penalties, missed red cards, goals, and mistaken identity. So repeated cynical fouling is still just the referee and he should have started issuing yellows as soon as he realized it was a deliberate tactic. I was particularly annoyed with ignoring the rugby tackles of Kane in the penalty area that the referee saw and waved off, the VAR should have told him he needed to relook at it. The referee was awful and wasn't helped by VAR.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kotro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2018 at 08:04
Before anyone else says it, I will: what a disgusting performance by Poortugal. I guess someone had to be this World Cup's Italy. Morocco extremely unfortunate to come away with nothing from the game, and yet more poor refereeing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2018 at 08:23
Originally posted by Kotro Kotro wrote:

Before anyone else says it, I will: what a disgusting performance by Poortugal. I guess someone had to be this World Cup's Italy. Morocco extremely unfortunate to come away with nothing from the game, and yet more poor refereeing.


Portugal were an eyesore and yet they won Euro 2016 playing this way (in a not dissimilar fashion to Greece who won Euro 2004 with a brand of football so cravenly negative that it makes Italy look gauchely cavalier) Pepe's dive to the floor after being lightly tapped on the shoulder by an opponent should be worthy of retrospective punishment. I thought both teams could have been awarded penalties (Fonte's push in the first half and Amrabat's foul on Ronaldo in the 2nd both went unpunished) All said and done, it's up to the other coaches to counter Fernando Santos' stifling negativity. If Morocco had a quality centre forward....Go Panama!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2018 at 08:26
Felt sorry for Morocco, they pushed Portugal hard but couldn't force the goal, Portugal look pretty bad with one good player, Pepe is rightly despised by most neutral fans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Quinino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2018 at 10:17
Originally posted by Kotro Kotro wrote:

Before anyone else says it, I will: what a disgusting performance by Poortugal. I guess someone had to be this World Cup's Italy. Morocco extremely unfortunate to come away with nothing from the game, and yet more poor refereeing.


Indeed ! And the only hope comes from the coach admitting  the fact something has to change (in the past , whenever the team made so poor games as this one and won, he always fell back to defend the result  over the actual playing quality - hoping maybe that luck, sheer luck, will never stop blessing him)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2018 at 10:28
As an England fan I'll take results over beauty every day, we normally get ugly and no result.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2018 at 07:05
Hi,

Some reflections on soccer and the WC.

it was in Brazil that I first became aware of the WC, and of course Pele, whom I got to see once while playing for Santos. But there was a huge difference in the game in those days, and the game today.

in those days, there was RADIO ... and radio had something going for everyone ... all of us had some sort of radio, and no one ... NO ONE ... skipped a game, and failed to find out the score and who scored ... and you knew Coutinho, Pele and Pepe for almost 12 years, and their abilities, long before Ronaldo, and then Ronaldinho and many wannabees since then. I do not think that Neymar is any better than any of these folks were, and mostly because Neymar is all speed, and not a very good passer and only sees his feet, not the other feet around him, which you have to do in a team game.

Fast forward to 2010 then 2014 and then 2018. I have not seen, or heard a single game of the WC. Even the highlights are taken away from ESPN, and the FIFA sites, and that means that the commercial side of the game, is actually hurting it in America even more since its VISIBILITY is simply not there. You get to see the highlights in all College and Professional Football games in America, and the same for Baseball, and that enhances their beauty and their strength on the minds and vision of the public.

Soccer, and specially American Soccer, is hurting itself, and will not grow well enough, if that visibility is not there, and the folks owning those teams think that they have to get into TV and eat up some of the fans in the other games, which I am not sure is a good idea. 

All in all, I find this lack of concern for making sure the games are heard ... a problem. it does not always matter how the information and games get to you, but knowing and making sure that you are aware of its living and its content, should be much more important than it is right now. The highlights alone, which are missing, are one of the best things in American sports TV programs ... and you get some goons talking about the game instead and you don't see anything. 

How can you appreciate a game, when you are not allowed to see it? Or worse ... pay for it, when at least half to two thirds of the world, doesn't even make that much in one month!

I'm glad that I will long be gone before stuff like that gets resolved, but the visibility that this game had for me when I was a kid, was massive, and almost just like seeing all the pro-football games' highlights each Sunday afternoon during the fall.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tuzvihar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2018 at 13:34
What a pathetic performance by the Polish team... Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Man With Hat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2018 at 16:44
Sorry to ask a question about two world cups in the future, but...

when they expand the field, are they going to add more groups or just add more teams to the existing number of groups? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DamoXt7942 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2018 at 17:23
Cannot believe Japan won the game against Colombia, even as a Japanese. Shocked
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2018 at 20:04
Originally posted by DamoXt7942 DamoXt7942 wrote:

Cannot believe Japan won the game against Colombia, even as a Japanese. Shocked

Colombia were down to 10 men from the 3rd minute, the Colombians must have been exhausted. 

What a terrible result for Argentina today, horrendous play by the keeper, surprisingly lackluster performance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2018 at 22:17
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by DamoXt7942 DamoXt7942 wrote:

Cannot believe Japan won the game against Colombia, even as a Japanese. Shocked

Colombia were down to 10 men from the 3rd minute, the Colombians must have been exhausted. 

What a terrible result for Argentina today, horrendous play by the keeper, surprisingly lackluster performance.

I think that this is the change in the game today ... some of the "lower" teams in the world have gotten better, but the media in Europe will not accept it, and still think that all teams must be honored by one player only, and they can not compete.

Messi, deserves a lot more than he has gotten from Argentina, but their Federation is not about the best players and the best coaches ... it's about their collective ego and rich-ness, and their "control" of their servants, instead of realizing that they need to come together and make the team work well along with the coaching staff.

What was clear, is that the coach in this game was not in touch with the players, and able to adjust quickly to the stonewalling that Croatia was doing, in preventing Messi from getting the ball. And the coaching staff should have been prepared for that ... but no ... it takes Aguero out instead, a proven scorer.

Nigeria will be a good test ... Croatia stonewalled. Nigeria is going to run the 100 yd dashes around Argentina, and we hope their old men can stop the flying feet from getting to the ball and probably scoring since Argentina does not have a reliable/dependable keeper, it looks like ... but I do believe that a lot of his problems are communication with his back line ... which failed during the Croatia game.

One man teams are doomed, and I think that Brazil is next.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2018 at 05:04
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:


I think that this is the change in the game today ... some of the "lower" teams in the world have gotten better, but the media in Europe will not accept it, and still think that all teams must be honored by one player only, and they can not compete.



Have to agree with this, at least as far as the British media are concerned. For the last 25 years we have been listening to broadcasters and pundits telling us how the English Premier League is the best in the world, the toughest to win, where all the top players want to play etc. In reality it is only the leader as far as TV rights income is concerned. For me, there is one 'top table' side in England (Man City) one 'good' side (Liverpool) and maybe Man Ure qualify as 'decent?' We can quibble about the order of the so-called 'top six' but their first elevens contain precious few Brits. There is more technical quality in the lower half of the Spanish, Italian and French leagues than there is in the EPL. The argument about 'limited opportunity' for young British players to break through because of the foreign imports is pretty flimsy i.e. if they were good enough they would get picked and save their employers having to spend millions of pounds purchasing and paying the inflated wages of mediocre o/seas players. (They might even want to emulate the perceived interlopers by moving abroad to learn their craft under continental coaches but to date it's been steady one way trafficShocked) Another daunting obstacle to improving the British game are it's myopic fans and dinosaur coaches, who ain't happy unless everything is going at a hundred miles an hour, all the tackles qualify as 'crunching' and the penalty box is being bombarded with an aerial long-ball blitzkreig. It is now demonstrably true that during his developmental phase, for a young player to master the requisite technique to compete at the highest level. his training games need to be slowed down to facilitate this. When the game is taught at too high a tempo, youngsters develop only endurance and physical strength at the cost of touch, feel, positional and tactical intelligence. Go Panama! Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2018 at 05:15
Originally posted by Man With Hat Man With Hat wrote:

Sorry to ask a question about two world cups in the future, but...

when they expand the field, are they going to add more groups or just add more teams to the existing number of groups? 


That's a very good question. I suspect that they will have more groups rather than add more teams to the existing 8 groups (otherwise the planned 48 teams would mean 8 groups of 6 teams = 5 matches to reach the knock out phase) The bigger nations are never gonna sanction having to play that number of games for the finals IMO. As an aside, I'm against the idea of expansion as it just dilutes quality (look at Euro 2016 if you need evidence)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2018 at 05:46
Croatia were hardly stonewalling, they made a specific tactical play to limit Messi which was sensible, Croatia's midfield dominated Argentina's. They out shot and out worked Argentina. 

As for your contention for the lesser teams doing better I still see this as a European dominated tournament, the only teams who have lost are Germany (in the shock of the tournament don't tell me they are getting weaker) and Poland who were over seeded. South America has horribly under performed with Uruguay only getting results while not being convincing. Africa has only managed one win in five games. Asia has been better with Japan & Iran getting wins but neither look that strong. 

Biggest thing for this tournament so far is parity with the big dogs, Brazil & Germany, looking off and lots of close games. 

In terms of the 2026 tournament they are going to have 16 groups of 3 teams with the top 2 going to the knockout stages so there's one extra knockout round. In terms of who gets the extra 16 spots they break out as Asia 3.5, Africa 4, N America & Carib 2.5, S America 1.5, Oceania 0.5, Europe 3, PlayOff 2. Host allocation is still to be determined.  

In terms of how weak those additional teams will be here's a look at who would have probably made it this year with that format

Asia - Syria, UAE, Uzbekistan
Africa - Congo, Ivory Coast, Burkina Faso, Uganda
N America & Carib - USA, Honduras
S America - Chile, Paraguay
Oceania - New Zealand
Europe - Italy, Rep Ireland, Greece

Other than Italy & the USA anyone really excited about that lot being added?


Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - June 22 2018 at 05:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2018 at 07:57
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Croatia were hardly stonewalling, they made a specific tactical play to limit Messi which was sensible, Croatia's midfield dominated Argentina's. They out shot and out worked Argentina. 
...

Hi,

My contention is that they had studied Barcelona, and Argentina thoroughly in the film and knew the tendencies of how to get the ball to Messi ... and they found out real quick that the midfield of Argentina was a high school equivalent compared to Barcelona, and from that point on the game was just ... easy for Croatia, specially after they got the first goal, on a defensive mistake. The Argentine midfield could not find, or locate an option to change the game ... and they did not look for Aguero, and neither did they threaten with long shots to open up the defense some. 

The game, for the Argentine staff, was one that was very badly looked at and they did not study the elements that took place in the first half, which the TV set glaringly showed and the announcers were openly discussing!

My bet, is that the same thing is going to happen to Brazil, that does not exactly have a flexible staff, and a strong enough technical one.

The Germany loss, for me, is one of what appeared to be a miscalculation of the game design and propensities. The Germans did not study the USA games (for example) where Costa Rica, Mexico and others ran right past the players at such speed that they just stood there and watched. The Germans, for my liking, appeared to be a step slow compared to Mexico, a team that was pretty sure they could catch the Germans on their back feet more than once, and they did ... and pulled off the upset. Even the German aerial attack failed, and that is something that tells you that the wide defenders prevented the crosses ... or cut them down to a small number by comparison ... and that Germany, still believed they could air raid Mexico ... and they didn't!

There are always, in every WC ... some surprises. Personally, I'm glad to see these big teams take a dump and give a different country a chance. I do not dislike the big teams and countries, but I am sick and tired of their media and their opinions that they own the world and that they will get all the trophies and I want to see the David's pull games out a lot more in the WC ... sick and tired of the Goliah's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2018 at 08:13
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

As for your contention for the lesser teams doing better I still see this as a European dominated tournament, the only teams who have lost are Germany (in the shock of the tournament don't tell me they are getting weaker) and Poland who were over seeded. South America has horribly under performed with Uruguay only getting results while not being convincing. Africa has only managed one win in five games. Asia has been better with Japan & Iran getting wins but neither look that strong. 

Biggest thing for this tournament so far is parity with the big dogs, Brazil & Germany, looking off and lots of close games. 

In terms of the 2026 tournament they are going to have 16 groups of 3 teams with the top 2 going to the knockout stages so there's one extra knockout round. In terms of who gets the extra 16 spots they break out as Asia 3.5, Africa 4, N America & Carib 2.5, S America 1.5, Oceania 0.5, Europe 3, PlayOff 2. Host allocation is still to be determined.  

In terms of how weak those additional teams will be here's a look at who would have probably made it this year with that format

Asia - Syria, UAE, Uzbekistan
Africa - Congo, Ivory Coast, Burkina Faso, Uganda
N America & Carib - USA, Honduras
S America - Chile, Paraguay
Oceania - New Zealand
Europe - Italy, Rep Ireland, Greece

Other than Italy & the USA anyone really excited about that lot being added?


All I inferred from Mosh's original comment re 'the lesser teams doing better' was that the only demographic remotely surprised by England being dismantled 4 v 1 by Germany at South Africa 2010, finishing bottom of their group at Brazil 2014 or being eliminated from Euro 2016 by Iceland were ....the English.
I agree that expansion will only lead FIFA down the same rocky route as UEFA where both are in danger of milking their cash cow into the abattoir. At this rate my home country (Scotland) just might nick a place in the finals after a tricky two leg play off decider with LaplandWink. Thanks for posting the planned tournament schedule for the 48 team WC Finals. Two from Three is a recipe for collusion methinks - remember Germany v Austria 1982?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2018 at 08:40
As an Englishman I can tell you I've had very low expectations of the side for a long time, we just don't produce world class defenders or creative midfielders. The British media are clueless and are purely trying to sell papers and airtime. The same way the USA media acts surprised when they are beaten by anyone. I think most expectations for this England side are pretty low. I'll also assume that given you are Scottish you may have a little bias yourself. Pretty much every Scotsman I know supports "whoever is playing against England".

Two from three is kind of weird, and could have collusion, if 1 beats 2, & 2 draws 3, then a draw between 1 & 3 eliminates 2.


Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - June 22 2018 at 08:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Man With Hat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2018 at 13:10
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Croatia were hardly stonewalling, they made a specific tactical play to limit Messi which was sensible, Croatia's midfield dominated Argentina's. They out shot and out worked Argentina. 

As for your contention for the lesser teams doing better I still see this as a European dominated tournament, the only teams who have lost are Germany (in the shock of the tournament don't tell me they are getting weaker) and Poland who were over seeded. South America has horribly under performed with Uruguay only getting results while not being convincing. Africa has only managed one win in five games. Asia has been better with Japan & Iran getting wins but neither look that strong. 

Biggest thing for this tournament so far is parity with the big dogs, Brazil & Germany, looking off and lots of close games. 

In terms of the 2026 tournament they are going to have 16 groups of 3 teams with the top 2 going to the knockout stages so there's one extra knockout round. In terms of who gets the extra 16 spots they break out as Asia 3.5, Africa 4, N America & Carib 2.5, S America 1.5, Oceania 0.5, Europe 3, PlayOff 2. Host allocation is still to be determined.  

In terms of how weak those additional teams will be here's a look at who would have probably made it this year with that format

Asia - Syria, UAE, Uzbekistan
Africa - Congo, Ivory Coast, Burkina Faso, Uganda
N America & Carib - USA, Honduras
S America - Chile, Paraguay
Oceania - New Zealand
Europe - Italy, Rep Ireland, Greece

Other than Italy & the USA anyone really excited about that lot being added?
 

Thanks. Groups of three is pretty piss poor IMO. But then I prefer larger groups with this pool play type system. And agreed...expansion isn't a great idea, but so it goes. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2018 at 05:35
Brazil 2 v 0 Costa Rica
If Neymar was booked in the 81st minute for dissent (after arguing his penalty award being overturned by VAR) why didn't this tally to a second yellow and a dismissal? Can someone tell me why he wasn't booked initially for simulating being fouled? (the video footage confirmed he fell backwards after the lightest touch of an opponents hand brushing his chest) It also begs the speculation: if he should have been red carded he wouldn't have been on the field to score his team's first goal. No-one can deny his talent but the media are fast turning the Seleção into Team NEYMAR Pty Ltd. Brazil were wretched throughout and had Costa Rica shown just a bit more ambition in getting forward more often....who knows?

Croatia 3 v 0 Argentina
Like any 58 year old man's tattoos, Sampaoli's birds of prey and ferocious predators are mutating daily into corpulent penguins and bloated lap-cats. From the federation down, Argentina are an omni-shambles and things behind the scenes must be that bad to make a team with this much individual talent perform with so little evident passion or desire. Messi without the ball is just one kit less that needs washing.

Go Panama!Thumbs Up


Edited by ExittheLemming - June 23 2018 at 05:47
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