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Spiritual/Religious Experience in Progressive Rock

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Cord Change View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cord Change Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2018 at 16:13
Originally posted by Cosmiclawnmower Cosmiclawnmower wrote:

Originally posted by Cord Change Cord Change wrote:

Basically everything you described as a religious experience is just urphoria. You listed concerts, drugs and sex. As soon as you start confusing religious experiences with real physical attributes like urphoria and dopeamean all made inside your body with no divine influence, thatís when things get ridiculous. I advise that whatever books you read concerning the subject are probably the most boring reads ever printed.

I know you will surely want to write another essay for me but I assure you it will not change my mind about this. I understand that it would be cool to if these things were related to anything other then chemical reactions in our bodies but itís simply not the case. ĎNo gods a maní because gods not real.
 

I'm sure that nobody (god forbid!) would want to try and change your mind about anything but before you go criticising and being objectionably rude to people here (people who have differing views, ideas and world experiences to you), learn to f**king spellAngry 


I didn't mean to criticize, I did feel like he was trying to refute my opinion and that is what I was addressing. Maybe I was a little harsh. 

Really itís up to the individual whether they think itís rude, obviously you mostly likely think itís rude because you disagree with me and/or you donít like my spelling. To be honest I read my whole post and have no idea what youíre talking about. Thanks for your input though and much wisdom you bestowed on this topic; people have different opinions... you donít say?

Originally posted by BillieJane BillieJane wrote:

Originally posted by Cord Change Cord Change wrote:

I feel prog is may be religious in a Dostoevsky kind of way that is always questioning itself. I think itís often confused, emotion and ďreligious experiencesĒ. A religious experience in my mind would simply be going to a place of worship. Even arguing with a preacher could be considered a religious experience. Apart from subject matter in a song Iím not sure how you could have a religious experience while doing anything that is not directly related to a religion...


What do you make of some of the Spinners at Grateful Dead concerts who were devoted to a specific 'Church', or when some fans called the drugs consumed 'sacraments'? Just an example of something - wasn't done in an ironic way. 
 

Iím fine with all of that, I have nothing against people thinking of drugs in a ďreligiousĒ sense, especially when it involves a bunch of eccentric groupies. The origins of Christianity are rife with extreme use of amanita muscaria. I don't have much of a problem with any opinions in this topic, i just wanted to discuss the scientific side of why you get that enlightened feeling.

Religion as we know it now is a institution and very much discriminates against drug use. 



Edited by Cord Change - July 18 2018 at 06:48
Minus the h.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2018 at 07:12
Originally posted by Cord Change Cord Change wrote:

...
 Religion as we know it now is a institution and very much discriminates against drug use. 


This, might be better stated if saying that this particular religion did its best to make sure they were not doing ANYTHING that other religions allowed and did. I'm pretty sure that Sumerian religions and other similar feudal systems at that time, were highly dependent on many substances, which some mystics would suggest interfere with the experiences, and while I tend to agree, I have seen times and people when the ingesting experience has been a liberating force, by allowing the person to see something within themselves that they had not seen before, and it affects their inner change.

This goes, very well, BTW, with the Christian/Catholic themes that drugs, sex, rock'n'roll and other deviant behaviors are not acceptable ... so you can not experience the type of events that created the very things that they are describing on their book. However, I will state right away, that none of these are really required to prove that an inner experience can happen, but it does make it way easier for them to happen, when your mind is on vacation, and your ideas are not "in control".

It's almost hilarious to see some of these subtleties in history ... one would think that Spike Milligan, or John Cleese and company were the ones that wrote it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote freed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2018 at 19:00
Earth and Fire (Atlantis) and Julian's Treatment (A Time Before This) were transcending experiences. Tschaikowski (1812) was my first classical LP, GyŲrgy Ligeti (Atmospheres) and Edvard Grieg (Peer Gynt) along with Jean Sibelius (Finlandia) touched me deeply. But probably Pink Floyd, Man and Renaissance brought the longest-lasting and re-occurring satisfaction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2018 at 03:44
Just done the survey. Unfortunately I'm atheist and I don't have many spiritual experiences.
As many pointed out, Pink Floyd is one of the best bands in creating mental landscapes (up to AHM), but I 've had my last "flashes" with some of the Senmuth albums, Xing Sa and the excellent Pangea Proxima by Unit Weil.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote deafmoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2018 at 12:22
As a musician for 45 years of my life, In my humble opinion those 'higher-level' experiences you are seeking cannot come from the rehearsed execution of notes and space. Reaching levels like that are extemporaneous to the players and are moments in time that are unplanned and unpredictable. If you want this firsthand as a listener, forget bands that play songs like Yes or Rush and go check out players in a club like The Iridium in NYC. A few years back I caught Mike Clark, James Genus and Dave Stryker playing. Lenny White, Gregg Potter, Carmine Appice were all there with me in the audience too. Why? Because that's ground zero for an environment of lift off into the stratosphere. That night came close a couple times on some of the extended solos. But, nothing like seeing Zappa in 1981 at The Palladium with Vai, Wackerman, Mann, Mars, Thunes and Ray White. That band was so tight and when Zappa strapped on the guitar for an extended solo in The Torture Never Stops...he visited the galaxy Andromeda.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BillieJane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2018 at 11:37
Originally posted by deafmoon deafmoon wrote:

As a musician for 45 years of my life, In my humble opinion those 'higher-level' experiences you are seeking cannot come from the rehearsed execution of notes and space. Reaching levels like that are extemporaneous to the players and are moments in time that are unplanned and unpredictable. If you want this firsthand as a listener, forget bands that play songs like Yes or Rush and go check out players in a club like The Iridium in NYC. A few years back I caught Mike Clark, James Genus and Dave Stryker playing. Lenny White, Gregg Potter, Carmine Appice were all there with me in the audience too. Why? Because that's ground zero for an environment of lift off into the stratosphere. That night came close a couple times on some of the extended solos. But, nothing like seeing Zappa in 1981 at The Palladium with Vai, Wackerman, Mann, Mars, Thunes and Ray White. That band was so tight and when Zappa strapped on the guitar for an extended solo in The Torture Never Stops...he visited the galaxy Andromeda.  

Yes.. this sounds interesting! But the capacity of prog rock to go "off on one", even if "this is the bit where we go off on one" (repeated/ritual?) is still valid and "higher", surely?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BillieJane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2018 at 11:39
Just a quick note to say - progarchives members have MADE my month (so far)! The survey has been so enriched by your participation and answers. I will be closing the survey early on Wednesday (1st August) so any last minute participants would be very welcome now!

Thank you so much, everyone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2018 at 13:02
A late entry. Good luck with this


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2018 at 13:03
Glad to help, good luck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2018 at 20:06
Originally posted by BillieJane BillieJane wrote:

...
Yes.. this sounds interesting! But the capacity of prog rock to go "off on one", even if "this is the bit where we go off on one" (repeated/ritual?) is still valid and "higher", surely?

It's the point of doing a "raga" ... you start out on easy details and then progress to a point where the details are not the issue and you are flying around ... now, the definition of "spiritual" comes into play, since we have not stipulated if it had direct religious connections or not, but in most cases, for me, the "trips" in the rock music and jazz, were not "religious", but separating those experiences one from the other, would be like carving a body in two ... it's the same person! It's the same mind ... and the criteria for separating it is just a mental exercise for us to entertain ourselves, and not define the real thing. The real experience. A personal experience that IS NOT suggested by those playing, or reading, or performing, for example, otherwise it's just another evening of New Age bruhaha ... complete with women that were not hippies but dress like a rich one now and think they are liberated! AND the usual joint, of course!


Edited by moshkito - August 01 2018 at 07:46
... none of the hits, none of the time ... now you know what the art is all about!
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