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Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Prog is music about hobbits, dragons, wizards and elves.  

Really, it is.  Trust me. 
To me that's the ultimate one actually. Can someone please guide me towards a proper progalbum that's actually all about wizards, dragons and stuff? I think I would have loved the experience but I don't think I've ever actually come across such an album.
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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Prog is music about hobbits, dragons, wizards and elves.  

Really, it is.  Trust me. 
To me that's the ultimate one actually. Can someone please guide me towards a proper progalbum that's actually all about wizards, dragons and stuff? I think I would have loved the experience but I don't think I've ever actually come across such an album.
 

I agree, that's the one which bugs me the most..

The 2 lps ive seen held up in the UK music press as examples were- Bo Hanson's music inspired by lord of the rings and Uriah heep's Demons and Wizards.. I personally don't consider the second example as a very progressive lp (its ok in small doses) and the first is only waved about because it has 'lord of the rings' in the title!

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Prog rock popularity ended in 1973. Yes released Tales From Topographic Oceans, Tull released A Passion Play, ELP released Brain Salad Surgery, Peter Gabriel put on a fox mask....

And the critics wailed in one great exclamation, "WTF?" Then they sniffed the air and grunted imperially, "Too many notes".... And started looking for punk albums to review.
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Originally posted by austrianprogfan austrianprogfan wrote:

Prog rock has to be "progressive".

Seriously, that's like saying "It's not shoegazing if they're not gazing at their shoes". Prog progressed from the popular music of the 60s, but that does not mean it constantly has to move forward.


I totally agree with this. I also dislike the "It has Mellotron in it, therefore it's just a repeat of 70's prog" sort of attitude. I don't really think the 70's prog sound has been fully explored anyways, so what's wrong with a few more bands making that kind of music?


My prog band - Boreal Kinship
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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Prog is music about hobbits, dragons, wizards and elves.  

Really, it is.  Trust me. 
To me that's the ultimate one actually. Can someone please guide me towards a proper progalbum that's actually all about wizards, dragons and stuff? I think I would have loved the experience but I don't think I've ever actually come across such an album.

Banzai - Hora Nata is the closest I think. There's wizards, dragons, rainbows and Aeneas in the album's epic track (I'm talking of course about the Three Magicians suite).

Edited by Hrychu - July 12 2018 at 18:27
Bez pierdolenia sygnał zerwie, to w realia wychodź w hełmie!
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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Prog is music about hobbits, dragons, wizards and elves.  

Really, it is.  Trust me. 
To me that's the ultimate one actually. Can someone please guide me towards a proper progalbum that's actually all about wizards, dragons and stuff? I think I would have loved the experience but I don't think I've ever actually come across such an album.

Thanks, this may be worth exploring a bit!  

Perhaps it started with Uriah Heep's "Demons & Wizards?"  Prog-related, but prog critics wouldn't necessarily be savvy enough to notice nor care.  

Genesis never wrote about dragons, fairies etc., but Gabriel's lyrics did touch upon English motifs (kings, queens, knights etc.) that populate fantasy literature.  "Time Table" comes to mind.  

The only band I can think of that made an art-form of writing about LOTR was Glass Hammer, although they do branch out into other topics as well.  

Other thoughts? 
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Dogma? No, this is not a dogma. A dogma is ‘omnis cellula e cellula’ in molecular biology. In prog music, a dogma could be something like ‘prog music is complex’. ‘It's not Genesis without Peter Gabriel’ is rather a common truth. (Or a fabrication, a canard if you like, it's more or less the same.) Most of statements of this sort are easily trusted, many of them are considered notoriously indisputable, and almost all are totally wrong. Moreover, their falsehood can be easily revealed and demonstrated, but nobody bothers to waste time for that. Lappri, lappri. It’s easier to repeat once again that Genesis without Gabriel is not Genesis (or Ritchie Blackmore is the author of most tracks by Deep Purple and Rainbow, or Lavrentiy Beria is the main Stalin’s executioner etc) than study the question and find the truth. Long live stagnancy!
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The "Just for Fun" section is full of disgusting misfits posting videos of themselves mimicking Tony Banks' keyboard solos with their own farts.
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Originally posted by proghaven proghaven wrote:

Dogma? No, this is not a dogma. A dogma is ‘omnis cellula e cellula’ in molecular biology. In prog music, a dogma could be something like ‘prog music is complex’. ‘It's not Genesis without Peter Gabriel’ is rather a common truth. (Or a fabrication, a canard if you like, it's more or less the same.) Most of statements of this sort are easily trusted, many of them are considered notoriously indisputable, and almost all are totally wrong. Moreover, their falsehood can be easily revealed and demonstrated, but nobody bothers to waste time for that. Lappri, lappri. It’s easier to repeat once again that Genesis without Gabriel is not Genesis (or Ritchie Blackmore is the author of most tracks by Deep Purple and Rainbow, or Lavrentiy Beria is the main Stalin’s executioner etc) than study the question and find the truth. Long live stagnancy!

In the strictest sense of the word, "dogma" is as you claim; however, the word itself has more than one finite definition, as do many words in the English language. For instance, a simple Google search on the Merriam-Webster dictionary site gives the following sub-definitions of "dogma":

1a : something held as an established opinion; especially : a definite authoritative tenet
b : a code of such tenets 
  • pedagogical dogma
c : a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds

Therefore, in reference to subsection C, the original poster is entirely within his grounds to use "dogma" in the sense that he has, "a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds."




Edited by The Dark Elf - July 13 2018 at 05:16
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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^ beats me where the cliche originates from that Prog fans are bookish loner pedants etc. Is there a hyphen in anal retentive? Wink
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Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

^ beats me where the cliche originates from that Prog fans are bookish loner pedants etc. Is there a hyphen in anal retentive? Wink

Hey, get off my lawn! I have another several chapters of Dunsany's Time and the Gods to read before I feed my cats! LOL
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I had to look up Lord Dunsany - so at least I learned summat Thumbs Up (but proto Tolkien?) Thumbs Down
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Quoted a lot by H P Lovecraft, incidentally. 

Who was probably not into prog rock. 

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^ but may have inspired some proto Prog shenanigans:


any dungeons, dragons, wizards or short middle earthlings in Lovecraft's oeuvre?

(I think the late Mark E Smith of the Fall was a fan)
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Alas no, mainly things with tentacles. ;-)))))

I seem to recall he mentioned Dunsany a lot - definitely in "The Cats of Ulthar". He also had a big thing for Gustav Dore, a French illustrator / engraver. 

Read the complete works as a kid, probably explains a lot. ;-)))

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there have to be keyboards in prog


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Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

[QUOTE=cstack3]Prog is music about hobbits, dragons, wizards and elves.  

Really, it is.  Trust me. 
Genesis never wrote about dragons, fairies etc., but Gabriel's lyrics did touch upon English motifs (kings, queens, knights etc.) that populate fantasy literature.  "Time Table" comes to mind.  

not true. "The Fountain of Salmacis" would fall into that category; a nymph is a creature from Greek mythology, and Hermaphrodite is the son of the Greek Gods Hermes and Aphrodite. "Squonk" would fall into that category as well (mystical creature supposed to live in the hemlock forests of Pennsylvania; the Squonk is actually mentioned in Fearsome Creatures of the Lumberwoods, With a Few Desert and Mountain Beasts  by William T. Cox, published in 1910). "Ripples" also falls into that category; the lyrics make it clear that it is Helen of Troy as an old woman who is looking into the pool, so we have Greek mythology again

Edited by BaldJean - July 13 2018 at 09:47


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Originally posted by TCat TCat wrote:

Originally posted by Argo2112 Argo2112 wrote:

No good prog came out after 1978.
Any song under 20 minutes isn't really prog.
^^You beat me to sharing my least 2 favorite Prog Rock axioms right here. 
 
If this is your opinion, then that's fine, but Progressive Rock wasn't meant to always remain the same as it was in 1978 and before.  Progressive Rock just.........progressed.  Some people progressed with it and some didn't.
 
Ok let me quantify my last statement just a bit.  Not all progressive rock has to progress, this is true.  There is nothing wrong with bands exploring prog genres that were popular in the past, in fact, I totally embrace that.  There is always something more to explore, but there is also nothing wrong with a band expanding prog into new ideas and growing it in new ways, and there are plenty of bands out there doing this too, we should give them a chance before discounting everything.  There are also other new bands that I would consider forms of prog rock that aren't on this site yet, but I keep watching for them, but I digress. 
 
I think that pretty much sums it up. 
 
Carry on everyone!
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Originally posted by TCat TCat wrote:

Originally posted by TCat TCat wrote:

Originally posted by Argo2112 Argo2112 wrote:

No good prog came out after 1978.
Any song under 20 minutes isn't really prog.
^^You beat me to sharing my least 2 favorite Prog Rock axioms right here. 
 
If this is your opinion, then that's fine, but Progressive Rock wasn't meant to always remain the same as it was in 1978 and before.  Progressive Rock just.........progressed.  Some people progressed with it and some didn't.
 
Ok let me quantify my last statement just a bit.  Not all progressive rock has to progress, this is true.  There is nothing wrong with bands exploring prog genres that were popular in the past, in fact, I totally embrace that.  There is always something more to explore, but there is also nothing wrong with a band expanding prog into new ideas and growing it in new ways, and there are plenty of bands out there doing this too, we should give them a chance before discounting everything.  There are also other new bands that I would consider forms of prog rock that aren't on this site yet, but I keep watching for them, but I digress. 
 
I think that pretty much sums it up. 
 
Carry on everyone!
I think you make a good point here. I don't know if we could consider it a dogma, but many prog fans complain about the new bands emulating (Cloning is the most common term used) the bands from the "golden Era" of prog, and at the same time complain that the older bands changed their music to something else and went in a different direction, which at least to me is quite out of line. If music (or anything else for that matter) is to grow, it most adapt and change to remain fresh and appealing to the newer generations. 


Edited by Manuel - July 13 2018 at 14:33
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Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

I had to look up Lord Dunsany - so at least I learned summat Thumbs Up (but proto Tolkien?) Thumbs Down
 

I visited Dunsany castle in County Meath (or Westmeath?) in Eire in the 1980s and it is an immense, gothic Demense with one of the biggest 'famine walls' in Ireland; there are Human skulls built into the walls of the chapel (which appeared in 'Robin hood-prince of theives'.. I think) and very gothic structures with deer skulls on top in the garden and a hall of original Aubrey Beardsley sketches.. it was exactly as you'd expect; partly abandoned, overgrown, decrepit and very very eerie and spooky.   

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