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Tangerine Dream "Extended" Albums

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verslibre View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2018 at 17:37
Alright, guys. As Greg Lake once sang, lay down your guns. 

Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Verslibre came up with a name a page back which I missed - Mark Shreeve. I really liked his stuff in Redshift, I think a lot of their stuff was massively influenced by Phaedra.

Well, that's kind of like saying IQ's massively influenced by Trick of the Tail. It's a given. However, Redshift's got a lot more going on than that. 

I like Arc (the duo of Shreeve & Ian Boddy) more. They're doing the retro thing, too, but their superb 2007 album Fracture is the perfect sequel to Rubycon. I mean perfect. Their previous album Blaze is more stylistically varied, and they even add a live drummer on some tracks. Just great electronic music that's a cut above a lot of the cookie cutter UK stuff (sorry, I'm not trying to be provocative, there's just a lot of it, and in Europe overall).

Shreeve's mid-80s "synth rock" albums are what I like best: Legion and Crash Head. Then there's a live album, Collide, and one more outing, Nocturne, in '95. After that, he formed Redshift with his brother Julian.

Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Incidentally, a friend of mine who used to be in a reasonably famous analogue synth band and I keep discussing about doing early TD style stuff - but he's 40 miles away and we both work. Doing an interpretation of Phaedra / Ricochet etc is something we keep talking about. so it would be fairly wrong of me to pull someone up for doing the same "extended" version. Yep, thinking about it, I'd give it a listen. I'm converted. To the idea. 

Why not give Stratosfear/Force Majeure a shake? I know they're more progressive/challenging, but Phaedra/Rubycon/Ricochet have been done to death for the last four decades...



Edited by verslibre - July 24 2018 at 17:38
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Davesax1965 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2018 at 01:58
Thanks, Versilibre. 

Redshift are a band I'd like to listen to a lot more. Some of their early gigs were five miles away from where I live: unfortunately, I'd not heard about them at the time. 

Getting back briefly to equipment (sorry ! ) they sound very much like early Tangerine Dream - unsurprising if you have an early Moog modular (3C, I think.) Most of the Tangerine Dream sound is a result of the equipment used (hence the tech posts earlier) - back in the 70's, kit was unavailable / unaffordable, now, you can get the same technology more cheaply. It's still ruinously expensive, but you can build your own, and you can build hybrid monsters, with Moog / ARP / Buchla / Korg / Roland elements. 

So now, I've got more equipment than TD had in 1974, but then again, most bands have more equipment than the Beatles did in 1963, doesn't make them "better than the Beatles" and I'm surprised that anyone could think I'd said "and therefore I'm better than Tangerine Dream".  Inspired by, not better than, and not a copyist. 

Having said that, would I cover Stratosfear ? Or produce an extended version ? Could do, much more difficult given the stuff I have. I'm set up, deliberately, for "early TD". That's the stuff I most enjoy. 

Having done the old fart "Ooo no, don't want to hear an extended version", I've thought about it and yep, I'd give any new music a listen. Why not, eh ? At the end of the day, the quality of the music, the quality of the playing and the quality of the interpretation are perhaps not all that matters, but if someone does a good job, I'll happily listen. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2018 at 02:03
Funny story. Someone I used to know was offered Tangerine Dream's old Moog. It cost as much as a house. 

So he bought a house. 

He's regretted it ever since. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2018 at 06:33
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Funny story. Someone I used to know was offered Tangerine Dream's old Moog. It cost as much as a house.

So he bought a house.

He's regretted it ever since.

Could have been tricky getting a mortgage on the Moog!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2018 at 07:20
Enough space to live in it, but mind all those transformers ! ;-)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2018 at 09:26
PS I'm very glad to say that Mosh and I have had a PM and we're friends. Sorry, Mosh !! 

Great passions occasionally produce great arguments. ;-)

If I upset anyone on this forum, I do apologise, it's never intentional. Sometimes I should think a bit deeper before I press POST REPLY - but that's the internet, I suppose !! 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2018 at 11:11
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Funny story. Someone I used to know was offered Tangerine Dream's old Moog. It cost as much as a house. 

So he bought a house. 

He's regretted it ever since. 
 

HAHAHA! Undoubtedly!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2018 at 11:19
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Thanks, Versilibre. 

Redshift are a band I'd like to listen to a lot more. Some of their early gigs were five miles away from where I live: unfortunately, I'd not heard about them at the time.

Here's their very latest offering. It's all been said this one's really a solo Shreeve album in disguise.)



Selections from Arc's Fracture. A 5-star album!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2018 at 11:24
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Getting back briefly to equipment (sorry ! ) they sound very much like early Tangerine Dream - unsurprising if you have an early Moog modular (3C, I think.) Most of the Tangerine Dream sound is a result of the equipment used (hence the tech posts earlier) - back in the 70's, kit was unavailable / unaffordable, now, you can get the same technology more cheaply. It's still ruinously expensive, but you can build your own, and you can build hybrid monsters, with Moog / ARP / Buchla / Korg / Roland elements.
 

LOL, great phrase. While I can't afford any of the good stuff, I'd still scrape together the funds for a Roland Jupiter 8 were I to find one in nice shape. I'd definitely sell off some stuff, and borrow the rest. (:
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2018 at 13:26
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

 
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Getting back briefly to equipment (sorry ! ) they sound very much like early Tangerine Dream - unsurprising if you have an early Moog modular (3C, I think.) Most of the Tangerine Dream sound is a result of the equipment used (hence the tech posts earlier) - back in the 70's, kit was unavailable / unaffordable, now, you can get the same technology more cheaply. It's still ruinously expensive, but you can build your own, and you can build hybrid monsters, with Moog / ARP / Buchla / Korg / Roland elements.
 

LOL, great phrase. While I can't afford any of the good stuff, I'd still scrape together the funds for a Roland Jupiter 8 were I to find one in nice shape. I'd definitely sell off some stuff, and borrow the rest. (:

About 4 years ago, I was seriously considering tackling a life long dream and putting together a monophonic modular system.  I'd owned synths for years beginning with a Pro-One back in 1981, but had never put together a modular system of my own.  In the late 90's I did have a Nord Modular, but just couldn't get on board with virtual modules and patch cords on a PC...I want real physical hardware I can touch.  

Anyway, I setup an account on Muff Wiggler and started learning everything I could.  After about 3 months research, I pretty much decided on the minimum Eurorack modules I wanted in my system and Davesax1965 is dead on, it was absolutely "ruinously expensive" LOL    I concluded for a fraction of the price I could buy a Prophet 12 rack, not have to do (or screw up and troubleshoot) any soldering or assembly myself, and have 12 voice polyphony...so did.  The main reason I chose the P12 is it had the most extensive modulation matrix (26 sources, 97 destinations, 16 slots) I could find in a manufactured polyphonic synth.  To me, the coolest thing about a true modular is the nearly infinite available combinations of modulation sources and destinations and the P12 was the closest option I could find in a pre-built polyphonic synth from a major and respected manufacturer.

Also, while I love the idea of moving patch cords around and tweaking knobs by hand to create each patch, in practice I'd rather give up some of that flexibility for the convenience of patch memory.  Besides, I paired up the P12 with a Behringer BCR2000 to give me a few dozen knobs and buttons for control & I have a Korg MS20 to play with patch cords when the mood hits Wink


Edited by The.Crimson.King - July 25 2018 at 13:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2018 at 06:57
Pity you're a long way from Macclesfield, you could have a go on mine !!

Have a look at "The mighty modular sequencer" thread in Tech Talk for more details. 

The only way, sadly, to make a modular is to get a soldering iron out or buy second hand. The expense is ridiculous, even doing it on the cheap. A case and power supply will set you back 350, second hand. Before anything goes beep, you need to build one oscillator, one ADSR, one filter and a voltage controlled amplifier. 

Which probably translates to another 800 in kits. And you won't be happy with just a one oscillator system. 

Kits are expensive (although much cheaper than pre-built modules) - the expense begins to tail off when you begin to source your own components. Unfortunately, modulars tend to use some expensive components, such as 9mm Alpha pots and hard to find chips. 

I've just ordered a Monobloc 01 and Monobloc 02 from Frequency Central - look them up. When I've finished soldering them up (2-3 months) I'll have another three oscillators, two filters, a low frequency oscillator, three envelope generators and a voltage controlled amp. Probably about 400 expenditure in kits and components, they would probably have been 1500 off the shelf. And then I need a new case, as I've run out of room - then I need a load of accessory modules, and 1200 has just disappeared. That's probably about a sixth of the amount of stuff in the system. 

I recently put together eight sequencer kits which were either 40 each for components - ie, 320, or about 200 each pre-assembled. Easy choice. 

The problem is also that what you build is not guaranteed to work. And then it becomes... interesting. 

You certainly have to be dedicated to build a system, and analogue modular synths are not for everyone. 

However. This is all comparatively cheap, compared to what Tangerine Dream were paying in the 1970's, So I should be comparatively grateful. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2018 at 10:56
Thanks for the invite, if I ever travel the 4,634 miles from my place to Macclesfield I'll drop you a line LOL

>>The problem is also that what you build is not guaranteed to work. And then it becomes... interesting.

That's the main reason back in '81 I bought a Sequential Circuits Pro-One vs buying a PAIA Proteus kit.  I'd ordered the Proteus schematic and was about to take the next step when I found the Pro-One was only about $100 more with a real warranty.  I could barely scrape together the cash for a Proteus, but knowing my electronic skills were good enough to build the Proteus, but not good enough to troubleshoot if something went wrong, made it an easy choice.  Kind of ironic, as I mentioned in 2015 I was once again considering a home built Eurorack system vs a DSI Prophet 12 and went the way of the Prophet.  Looks like Dave Smith has twice snatched me away from a DIY synth to one of his creations LOL  

Anyway, I couldn't be happier with the P12 and skipping the soldering iron.  Just for fun I created a mock-up of what the P12 front panel might look like if it was a modular synth based on it's 4 OSC, 4 ENV, 4 LFO, 4 Delay, HPF/LPF, 16x2 26-source 96-dest mod matrix architecture:


One thing the mock up doesn't show is a single patch is actually made up of 2 sets of these modules which are pan-able and stack-able up to a limit of 12 total polyphonic voices.

I've been following your modular synth thread and am really impressed with what you've put together (especially after what I learned from my time on MuffWiggler).  In the words of Sarah Winchester..."keep building" and if you ever do an extended remake of Phaedra, let me know LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2018 at 20:41
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

...
... I'd still scrape together the funds for a Roland Jupiter 8 were I to find one in nice shape. I'd definitely sell off some stuff, and borrow the rest. (:

The VST available from Arturia is, probably ... a bit easier to use and do something with ... but even for me, it is a lot already, but some serious fun playing around with it.

I do not mind the VST's as long as they are clean. According to some folks on the Arturia board, the VST is actually more flexible than the real thing, since you can do more with it a lot faster ... but getting all those buttons together through your MIDI board ... could be an issue ... not enough usable switches to play with, although I have never tried using this inside a DAW ... on my Oxygen Midi Keyboard, I have the 9 sliders and the 9 buttons setup for just about everything from left to right, and it only leaves the stuff with the resulting sounds to do manually.

It's great fun, and enjoyable, and probably a good learning tool, rather than spend on the actual unit.

I wish I could create the keyboard sounds better and have some sounds that are so smooth and sweet all around ... the samples they have are the worse ever defined!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2019 at 06:07
Arturia VSTs are quite well done, but not a patch (no pun intended) on the real thing, unfortunately. The sound is pretty dead in comparison. The Moog VST is pretty limited and disappointing.

They're OK, as - let's face it - very few people are going to actually splash out on a modular synth, unless they're as weird as I am, but it's really like having a simulated F-16 compared to the real thing. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2019 at 08:45
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

...
Having said that, would I cover Stratosfear ? Or produce an extended version ? Could do, much more difficult given the stuff I have. I'm set up, deliberately, for "early TD". That's the stuff I most enjoy. 
... 

"3 AM at the Border of the Marsh from Okefenokee", 

Might be a more interesting redo, since you know that this is a compliment to the Bernie and Krause piece of electronica several years earlier. And you could do your own complimentary detail to both of them in one shot ... we can even title it "3 AM at Dave's House by a Marsh in England".

Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2dogs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2019 at 10:07
^ Very marshy it is too at the moment .
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