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Steely Dan vs Supertramp

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Poll Question: Which S band do you prefer? Steely Dan or Supertramp?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
27 [44.26%]
27 [44.26%]
4 [6.56%]
3 [4.92%]
You can not vote in this poll

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Mascodagama View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2018 at 06:40
Originally posted by TCat TCat wrote:

In fact, without opinions, Prog might not even exist.
To not have opinions you'd have to not have humans. So I think you are right!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2018 at 06:59
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I'm not voting as I still don't know Steely Dan as well as I should, but I really like various Supertramp albums and tracks.

I came late to getting the debut, but really like it and "Try Again" I especially love off it. It's a wonderful song to me that I don't see getting mention.



Other songs like "Fool's Overture" and "Hide in Your Shell" have been really important to me. I'm inspired to do a little poll due to this topic.

First Supertramp is my favorite from them.


Mine too. It's an album that in my experience doesn't, with the possible exception of Indelibly Stamped, get nearly as much recognition or love as the bands other 70s albums. At ProgArchives, it is the lowest rated album with the fewest numbers of ratings, other than Indelibly Stamped, and it's the same situation at rateyourmusic (although at rateyourmusic it fares better against those). At PA, Crime of the Century, which is commonly held to be its masterpiece, has a 4.31 rating with 1460 ratings, whereas the debut has 3.45 with 294 ratings. I have rarely noticed the debut being mentioned when Supertramp comes up, and I neglected it for years.

Well my opinion is that there is lot more prog in their first album than their later albums, at least that style prog I love.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote someone_else Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2018 at 07:13
Supertramp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Argo2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2018 at 07:42
I voted Supertramp but it was close.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2018 at 08:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Man With Hat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2018 at 16:15
easily neither 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dopeydoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2018 at 08:19
Supertramp!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2018 at 09:34
Frankly I'm surprised Supertramp doesn't have more votes since most people here tend to vote for bands they think are 'more prog'....even though Tramp was always prog lite to me as was ELO...another band who strived to be more than they were who ended up pop rock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dr. Occulator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2018 at 15:55
IMO Steely Dan are the most intelligent, musical, rock, jazz, prog, crossover band of all time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fischman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2018 at 17:46
Originally posted by Dr. Occulator Dr. Occulator wrote:

IMO Steely Dan are the most intelligent, musical, rock, jazz, prog, crossover band of all time.

Hear, Hear!

(although if we remove "jazz" from the fusion/crossover list there, then it's gotta' be Rush)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2018 at 18:50
^ hahah don't tell me you are going there with Rush are you.

well here is the answer to that.. 

words of wisdom from a forum great as Rush were getting smoked by Le Orme in my battle of the bands some years ago...

Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

I had no idea there were so many Le Orme fans here. (no Steve.. it was Rush they were against haha)

C'MON GUYZ IT'S RUSH GEEZ

Where was Le Orme when you were squeezing pimples in your teenage bathroom, looking for guidance to summon the courage to approach that pretty girl in your class?  Who but Neil Peart could give you the courage to say THE HELL WITH GIRLS I'M GONNA WITHDRAW INTO MY FANTASY WORLD ?

that is the extent of Rush's intelligence and Peart's laughable philosophy for high school losers...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2018 at 21:40
I mean, Fagen and Becker are like novelists as opposed to Peart's comic book wisdom.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2018 at 22:05
yeah the best description I've read of Peart's lyrics, ie Rush's so called intellectualism is 'a lot of his lyrics read as Western Philosophy and the Human Condition for Dummies Too often, even in a lot of songs where I like his lyrics, I feel like I'm listening to the poetry of a high school Freshman who just bought The Dictionary of Cultural Literacy and a thesaurus'

God I love that man...  he nailed Rush to a T.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2018 at 22:10
Yeah, actually the excessive use of profound sounding words is a good bullsh*t meter when it comes to literature, including lyrics. Fagen and Becker rarely resort to very complicated or grandiose expressions and yet make their lyrics hard to decipher. One can hold that crypticism against them for personal taste but nobody can argue Rush lyrics are actually more intelligent than Dan's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2018 at 22:19
Yeah, actually the excessive use of profound sounding words is a good bullsh*t meter when it comes to literature, including lyrics. Fagen and Becker rarely resort to very complicated or grandiose expressions and yet make their lyrics hard to decipher. One can hold that crypticism against them for personal taste but nobody can argue Rush lyrics are actually more intelligent than Dan's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2018 at 22:28
well in all fairness the guy did give Fagen and Becker credit, his mistake was thinking that Peart was even in the same frickin zip code as them.  As much as ELP are lauded for giving prog its bad name,  one should never underestimate just how much Rush rival ELP in giving prog the bad name it does. Not musically of course.. for Rush rawks man...  it is for the other end. Some bands took things a bit too far musically...  ELP gets the lion's share of the blame for that. Rush's attempts to be prog, ie intellectual however typifies.. and to be honest.. it isn't even close the notion that idiot musos are not philosophers and when they try to be... bad things happen man.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fischman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2018 at 16:30
What ignorantly narrow views of Rush lyrics!

By limiting Peart to expressions of high school loserhood, you demonstrate ignorance of not only the depth, but also the breadth of his subject matter. Nobody, with the possible exception of Ian Anderson in Aqualung, has matched his treatises on the limits and harms of organized religion. No one else has so perfectly distilled the concept of fear itself and the many ways it manifests. Then you've got his very unique and thoughtful treatment of man's entry into the atomic age, and his positively brilliant use of the trees as a metaphor for affirmative action. All this, and soooooo much more. And within any given topic area, few can turn a phrase like he does.


Like him or not, theres mo denying bes got a far broader range of topic areas than most, and saying otherwise is just professed ignorance that casts doubt on any other analysis you might throw his way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2018 at 18:56
Originally posted by Fischman Fischman wrote:

What ignorantly narrow views of Rush lyrics!

By limiting Peart to expressions of high school loserhood, you demonstrate ignorance of not only the depth, but also the breadth of his subject matter. Nobody, with the possible exception of Ian Anderson in Aqualung, has matched his treatises on the limits and harms of organized religion. No one else has so perfectly distilled the concept of fear itself and the many ways it manifests. Then you've got his very unique and thoughtful treatment of man's entry into the atomic age, and his positively brilliant use of the trees as a metaphor for affirmative action. All this, and soooooo much more. And within any given topic area, few can turn a phrase like he does.


Like him or not, theres mo denying bes got a far broader range of topic areas than most, and saying otherwise is just professed ignorance that casts doubt on any other analysis you might throw his way.

Treatise? Treatise? Dude it wouldn't make a New Yorker article so treatise is out of the question. Just a sample: "From the Middle East to the Middle West..." really now, Middle West as bad as the MidEast? And this was written back in 2007. Didn't realise Midwestern girls couldn't drive cars even as recently as then!

Er, yes, Pearr writes on plenty of topics. The way LaBrie has covered everybody from Roger Waters to Dio to Hetfield. Whether he did a half decent job of it though is the question.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2018 at 02:11
If you think a song lyric should aspire to the condition of a treatise in the first place then I think you've already gone hopelessly wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2018 at 05:58

Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I'm not voting as I still don't know Steely Dan as well as I should, but I really like various Supertramp albums and tracks.

I came late to getting the debut, but really like it and "Try Again" I especially love off it. It's a wonderful song to me that I don't see getting mention.



Other songs like "Fool's Overture" and "Hide in Your Shell" have been really important to me. I'm inspired to do a little poll due to this topic.

First Supertramp is my favorite from them.


Mine too. It's an album that in my experience doesn't, with the possible exception of Indelibly Stamped, get nearly as much recognition or love as the bands other 70s albums. At ProgArchives, it is the lowest rated album with the fewest numbers of ratings, other than Indelibly Stamped, and it's the same situation at rateyourmusic (although at rateyourmusic it fares better against those). At PA, Crime of the Century, which is commonly held to be its masterpiece, has a 4.31 rating with 1460 ratings, whereas the debut has 3.45 with 294 ratings. I have rarely noticed the debut being mentioned when Supertramp comes up, and I neglected it for years.

Well my opinion is that there is lot more prog in their first album than their later albums, at least that style prog I love.

 
In terms of" progginess"
 
I'd rank them:
 
Debut and Brother
 
Crime and Moments  (if only for Overture, but not just that)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Crisis & Breakfast  (if only for CoN)
 
 
 
 
Not prog at all: FLW and Stamped.
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