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Prog rising?

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Mortte View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 31 2018 at 22:02
My suprise was really big, when I looked yesterday long-time Finnish magazine Soundi. It has two articles from prog (one was article from Jukka Gustavson and new music maker Litku Klementti, who has been big Wigwam-fan, that I didnīt know, the other was a common article todayīs situation of prog, it said prog has become much more acceptable). Soundi was one of those magazines, that turned itīs head to prog in the late seventies and really havenīt seen there much articles from prog ever.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2018 at 00:25
I think the Finnish music media has been gradually turning more friendly (= much less hostile, slightly less ignorant) towards prog for a long time. Indeed it has been a rather silent and slow change.
I wouldn't consider those two related articles on prog as any crucial turning point, although they certainly are the most notable this far. After all, Litku Klemetti is the most hyped indie rocker nowadays, and at first hardly anyone paid any attention to her "prog side", and Gustavson is possibly the greatest living prog figure in Finland. 
It sure would be great if prog writing would start increasing in our music magazines, but I'm afraid that the majority of our prog bands - and there have been more than ever before in this Millennium - will still be doomed for being nearly completely unnoticed by the media and  the public, save for a small group of the most acknowledgeable prog listeners.
 
 
From some other points of view, the Finnish prog scene is actually thinner than just a few years ago: I'm referring to the death (?) of Colossus society's tradition of organizing prog gigs. It's really sad that they seem to have ended! Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2018 at 00:57
^I believe youīre right. Anyway I was also today really suprised, when noticed Soundi has also given their magazine award to Jukka Gustavson (what I remember the awards theyīve given before heīs the first progartist). Didnīt noticed that yesterday when I read only those two articles from Soundi. Anyway this all is maybe caused from that 50th birthday celebration tour of Wigwam, also because Litku is so popular in Finland at the moment, it was easy to make bridge between her and her old idol. Also all was my gladness, when I have had also feeling prog is getting thinner year by year in Finland.
 
But of course the reason why I made this thread is I would like to hear has there been more articles from prog in any other countries than Finland?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2018 at 02:43
I think Finland is on its own here. Generally speaking it is but the rarest of prog bands that can make a living these days...much less get anyone to listen to their music.
I think we had somewhat of a resurgence 10 years ago but we are talking infinitely small potatos compared to the 70s. More like 10.000 outside of the usual suspects went out and bought the new Steven Wilson album.

Experimental music though seems to be doing alright. I guess some call it prog but I hear more of a post-punk/stoner rock foundation where experimental bits are glued on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2018 at 04:25
Finland still has a heathy liking for prog, more than the other Nordic countries perhaps, and that's probably the reason for this type of media coverage.

Edited by SteveG - August 01 2018 at 04:26
"Madonna and Lady Gaga are prog, Parliament/Funkadelic are more prog than the Beatles ever were.....Wrap your closed mind around that." said the joker to the thief.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2018 at 04:56
Well, I don't think we have no reason to start shout hurrah here also. As Matti before said, Finnish media has slowly turned to more positive towards prog, that's all. It can be just those few articles and after those Wigwam gigs everything continues the same.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2018 at 06:32
^ Agreed. Prog is not big in Finnish media and never will be, even if Close To Edge becomes a top seller again overnight, I should think.
"Madonna and Lady Gaga are prog, Parliament/Funkadelic are more prog than the Beatles ever were.....Wrap your closed mind around that." said the joker to the thief.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2018 at 07:42
Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

My suprise was really big, when I looked yesterday long-time Finnish magazine Soundi. It has two articles from prog (one was article from Jukka Gustavson and new music maker Litku Klementti, who has been big Wigwam-fan, that I didnīt know, the other was a common article todayīs situation of prog, it said prog has become much more acceptable). Soundi was one of those magazines, that turned itīs head to prog in the late seventies and really havenīt seen there much articles from prog ever.

I'm of the opinion that too many of these magazines are not about the "music" at all, and in fact, will continually show that they have to do articles on well known bands, in order to get an audience ... and even Guy Guden and Space Pirate Radio, proved this a false pat on the back for some folks that thought they were successful, and in the end, they were not at all. Guy proved, and QUICKLY, that there were many other bands out there that did great work, and he even resorted to several fake comedy sketches that gave away some funny comments ... like the boss of the music company that gave you Elmo and the Crotchhairs, and will never NEVER EVER make a hit out of a band from nowhere else out there ... that band, btw, was The Average White Band, that became a huge hit in the States.

Getting attention to NEW, and "unknown" material has been an issue from day one ... and I have to admit that here on PA, there is no better place to see that, however, it is my contention that too much of the attention is on the Greek monuments and the Roman artifacts, before we will, subjectively, listen and appreciate a new band ... without just simply hearing 5 seconds of this cut, 6 seconds of that cut and then 7 seconds of that cut, and then state that it sounds like Genesis!

Prog, or progressive anything, never died and went to heaven or hell. It has been there the whole time, but like that magazine, getting the attention ... I guess that PA has a great job to do ... and I think we do it better than anyone!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2018 at 10:50
Prog rising?  Not in my neck of the woods.  Just yesterday an older friend was asking what kind of music I like best, I said "progressive rock" and got the expected blank stare.  Then as usual I fell back on my standard answer, "progressive rock was really big in the late 60's to late 70's...bands like Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd and Yes" (I don't even bother mentioning King Crimson, VDGG, Gentle Giant, etc).  Then I get a flicker of recognition, but probably only because this person was alive and listening to radio back then and heard Lucky Man, Bungle in the Jungle and Roundabout a few hundred times.  

Prog's 15 minutes of fame ended decades ago and beyond the people that are already into it, none of the general population have a clue what progressive rock refers to...especially if you try to describe the genre with any band formed after 1975.  It's sad, but in today's lightning fast paced society you can hardly get anyone to sit still long enough to listen to music they've not heard before for more than 10 seconds let alone the required 20 minutes and several re-listens it takes to really get into most of the music we consider masterpieces.  We are a dying breed Unhappy 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2018 at 12:56
I'm glad to hear that some magazine is including articles about prog, but I would not get that optimistic. Prog is far from being mainstream.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2018 at 22:01
Yes, I really would like to be optimistic and believe prog or whatever great music will rise again, but although there was these kind of small light in the darkness as that one magazine number was to me, the popular music direction just seem to worse year by year. I think 2010 has been the most mediocre decade in rock/pop music and it seems it will stay like that. Of course I also believe there will be always some new great music, but for example this year has become only two albums I really have enjoyed, also those albums havenīt really been the greatest music in the world. As a matter of fact that number showed me, how lost even music magazines are with the 2010, because even prog can be in this decade acceptable (there where comic strip in that magazine where people are coming to watch music dinosaurs, but they werenīt anymore old progbands, they were old heavy bands like Iron Maiden & Accept, all non-Finnish I have to inform metal music has been specially 2000 decades quite respect musicstyle in this magazine). 
 
But all you who find lots of great music also these days, be happy! I am also happy with my so many old great albums.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2018 at 22:47
Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

Yes, I really would like to be optimistic and believe prog or whatever great music will rise again, but although there was these kind of small light in the darkness as that one magazine number was to me, the popular music direction just seem to worse year by year. I think 2010 has been the most mediocre decade in rock/pop music and it seems it will stay like that. 
...


I think this is a sort of illusion for us all and that we have to get past the devil to get to the light, as a famous mystic would say!

The press, is well known to be in cahoots with the same corporate companies that run the record companies and the movie companies. Why the FUDGE would you expect so many of those "magazines" to show/write anything that is "progressive" and "prog", or "$hitcrap" as it would not help the selling of their very own house product. Have you taken a look at USA Today, and its listings? You're not going to see an article on "progressive", because a lot of the "progressive" and "prog" have gone INDEPENDENT for the most part. 

The idea that the press and the media regulates "progressive" is the one thing that has not happened, and progressive continues to be where it was before, after, and BEYOND.

Please stop giving the "press" and the "media" its due ... that part of the "music business" has been falling apart for a long time, and I sincerely hope it dies further before my body gives out ... we DON'T NEED TO BE TOLD what to like and dislike. This is my main reason to fight vehemently against a top ten of any kind, including our own here.

"Progressive" and "Prog" ... have always been independent, with the exception of a couple of bands that got huge in the early days, and the music business has made sure that they did not see that again ... as time went by, the record companies were making less and less from any of those bands ... and then you hear about them losing money ... after they stole so much before the band "made it".

Please stop giving the press and media some value. 

You can NOT have "progressive" or "prog" WITHOUT AN INDEPENDENT SPIRIT, and NOT BEING TOLD WHAT TO PLAY. So stop thinking that a magazine is the clue, because it isn't. 

Places like PA are a much better clue in case you have not noticed!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2018 at 00:03
Have to say this that I haven't found anything interesting music through musicmagazines over 20 years. Those few great artists from 2000-2018 I have found through small local finnish radio, few of my friends and recommendations from internet forums. I have had many recommendations, most of them I haven't found great.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2018 at 12:40
Yes! Very much this. Up to 2010 there might have been a slight rising. But to me it feels like this is over. 

Some genres even seem very slow in terms of output. I know it only feels that way, but to me it seems like every new album is either metal or crossover.

One impression though: 

Less and less people seem to be into rock in general, so the audience for prog might be growing comparatively?

In my circles, progheads cling to their music fiercely, and even new fans who discover rock actually get interested in prog or at least art rock. Classic rock, post rock even indie and punk based genres seem to shed fans at a much higher rate. (Mostly to hip hop and electronica.) So maybe the prog audience actually decreases but the general rock audience decreases even faster and therefore prog seems bigger? Might be a reason for rock magazines to include it more?

Anyone notice anything similar? Or is this wrong?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2018 at 14:53
Originally posted by Lewa Lewa wrote:

Anyone notice anything similar? Or is this wrong?

My only gauge on the growth or shrink of prog fans is activity on this forum (I don't get out much LOL) and over the past couple years it's dropped dramatically.  I'm sure a good portion of that is due to CAS (Captcha Anxiety Syndrome), but getting into the habit of doing a quick ctrl-a, ctrl-c in case a repost is required is a minor inconvenience, yet activity here has plummeted.  It can't be all because of CAS, can it?  I wonder if activity has also dropped over on Progressive Ears?


Edited by The.Crimson.King - August 03 2018 at 14:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2018 at 16:44
^ But to copy your post is not always enough. There's been times that I just kept on pasting and pasting, over 10 times, and captcha just wouldn't let me have my post, so that just became ridiculous and impossible. I guess FB itself might have something to do too, PA should look for some admins to give life to it's PA page too, because just posting a link to some of the topics on the forum isn't nearly enough.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2018 at 18:03
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

^ But to copy your post is not always enough. There's been times that I just kept on pasting and pasting, over 10 times, and captcha just wouldn't let me have my post, so that just became ridiculous and impossible.

No argument from me...I've had a handful of times that I've been so frustrated by repeated permission errors and/or clicking boxes with street signs that I just gave up on the post and came back later.  What I'm wondering is if that's the only reason activity on PA has dropped so drastically?


Edited by The.Crimson.King - August 03 2018 at 18:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ForestFriend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2018 at 18:39
Could be that people just aren't into joining old-fashioned forums anymore; not when they can find a prog community on Facebook or Reddit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2018 at 22:22
In Finland there are own progforum (Colossus) in internet with no captha. Still there has been quite quiet recently although it has never been very "hot" place. But anyway itīs almost the only activity in that society, as Matti before told something about it, they released own magazine almost 20 years, released records and organised prog gigs, now there is only that site in the internet with not much activity.

I think progcommunities in Facebook in Finland have been active at least some time ago, but I am not in Facebook, so donīt really know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2018 at 02:05
Yes, I can confirm that in Facebook there is an active prog group (and a few smaller ones) in Finland. I'm participating in there -- and btw it really has been the best place to find buyers for my prog books.

Probably that's the case in other countries as well?
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