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Listening through the Top 100

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tempest_77 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tempest_77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2018 at 14:07
I did I guess move from classical to prog, albeit with a lot in the middle. My personal favourites that I would start with are Genesis, King Crimson, Yes, Jethro Tull, and Marillion, as well as some modern bands that are quite good as well. If you like classical the Phish albums Junta and Rift are very heavily classically influenced. They have a few heavily composed, classically influenced songs on most of their records too; I'd say Guyute, Time Turns Elastic, and Petrichor are the best of the lot.
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2018 at 06:38
Originally posted by tempest_77 tempest_77 wrote:

I did I guess move from classical to prog, albeit with a lot in the middle. My personal favourites that I would start with are Genesis, King Crimson, Yes, Jethro Tull, and Marillion, as well as some modern bands that are quite good as well.
...

If I may suggest, and I am the oddball here sometimes, simply forget the top 5 bands and go listen to something else ... if you came from "classical music" (and now I doubt it due to your postings!), you would know that there are composers and music elsewhere, and you have not tackled BANCO, PFM, ANGE, and even the German contingent, TERJE, GARBAREK (specially early days), GISMONTI, HADEN ... and so many others that make the definition of music look silly, stupid, and above all ... immature.

While those bands have music that I love dearly, they are not the "top" for me, and never will be. There is far more music out there, that you and I have never heard, to consider one band this or that ... that's just sad, and totally uneducated and off kilter, when it comes to music, and its abilities and sources.

Of those 5 bands you mention, only KC might be considered a bit "classical" and it is not quite/necessarily on their compositional side, one of the strongest in rock music, but their approach to the music and their presentation is highly classical, and defies the definition of the poor rock music out there that is liked by so many folks ... and is just another top ten song! And I do not believe that any musical definition of most of those 5 bands you now "prefer" actually stand up in a true music class ... some KC pieces will ... but the rest can take a flying leap into the toilet!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... now you know what the art is all about!
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2018 at 07:46
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by tempest_77 tempest_77 wrote:

I did I guess move from classical to prog, albeit with a lot in the middle. My personal favourites that I would start with are Genesis, King Crimson, Yes, Jethro Tull, and Marillion, as well as some modern bands that are quite good as well.
...
... if you came from "classical music" (and now I doubt it due to your postings!) and even the German contingent, TERJE, GARBAREK (specially early days)
= the norwegian TERJE RYPDAL (and JAN GARBAREK) I presume

-but why so suspicious or even mean? You seriously doubt that tempest_77 "moved from classical to prog" because you know that composers are everywhere to be found? Why would someone pretend something like that? I would guess he simply hasn't heard the artists and bands you namecheck, yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2018 at 10:45
It appears not charitable, disrespectful, quite ridiculous and unwarranted.   I believe in principles of charity that not only include treating people as intelligent, really "listening" to what the other has to say, and generally trying to put their arguments/ideas in the strongest form possible (steelmanning as opposed to straw man arguments), but also when it comes to treating people as sincere (unless they are joking around etc.). That said, the comment conceivably could be intended as gentle ribbing (good-natured teasing) which is not meant to be taken at all seriously, which would be a charitable interpretation.

Edited by Logan - August 12 2018 at 10:48
"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They donít alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit the views" (Doctor Who - The Face of Evil, Jan 22, 1977).
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2018 at 20:25
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

It appears not charitable, disrespectful, quite ridiculous and unwarranted.   I believe in principles of charity that not only include treating people as intelligent, really "listening" to what the other has to say, and generally trying to put their arguments/ideas in the strongest form possible (steelmanning as opposed to straw man arguments), but also when it comes to treating people as sincere (unless they are joking around etc.). That said, the comment conceivably could be intended as gentle ribbing (good-natured teasing) which is not meant to be taken at all seriously, which would be a charitable interpretation.

It is, just plain weird and strange, TO ME, that some postings here, at times, are so strangely weird ... one might as well ask what "progressive" or "prog" is, before even posting. There has never been any doubt that "progressive" got a kiss from classical music, and you can go back to the Moody Blues in DAYS OF FUTURE PASSED, with long cuts, and even an orchestra. 

In those days, and it was what brought me to PROGRESSIVE, it was the fact that some bands were doing bits and pieces of classical music, as an inspiration, that got my attention much further, and to see/hear, someone state that, rubbed me incorrectly, though I was not trying to be rude ... mostly curious as to how all the knowledge about classical music and its details, all of a sudden are totally forgotten and a rock song, which normally has the simplest anything in music history, all of a sudden seems to be a better conduit of a feeling. 

FOR OUR DAYS and AGE, the electric materials will ALWAYS, have more attention, as it is what we are brought up with, when in my case, in the 50's and 60's I was brought up in a house that had over 2K LP's of classical music and over 100 operas, which tells you that having heard so much, and already being familiar with a lot of composers and their work, a lot of rock songs did not stand up, including the Beatles and just about anything else. 

To me, however, these were not INFERIOR in any way. To me, and this is important, this was my generation creating their own music and adding it to the cannon of all music in history, not just "classical", and that was valuable, since the popular side of music and other types of music, were grossly under-represented in the history of music books, that are found in schools.

I can understand, and remember the exhaustive post one time about CLOSE TO THE EDGE, and its classical design, folks making a connection ... but as much as I enjoy JETHRO TULL, it will never be "better" or "more appreciated" than a TURANDOT, or CARMEN, or 5th, or 7th, or a 3rd by another composer. 

This is the part that is scary for me, since what it comes down to, is the idea that a lot of the posting stuff has very little in terms of history of music, to be able to make sense of a lot of music and its progression through the aethers of life! I may appreciate something like YETI, but while that is classical music to my ears done by my generation, I can not compare it to the music history of 100 or 200 years ago, although, for ANY piece of music to have survived that long, is definitely a valuable story.

To me, what the posting was saying, was missing a natural history of music ... and when you say that Beethoven is your favorite, it is like saying that the Beatles are crap ... and that is not true! Conversely, the opposite is also true, and I'm often careful in that area, because it is one spot where the tastes, even here, have a tendency to dismiss classical music in favor of their favorite ... this or that! That is not historical, and neither is it intelligent look at music, I do not believe.
... none of the hits, none of the time ... now you know what the art is all about!
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2018 at 04:24
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

It is, just plain weird and strange, TO ME, that some postings here, at times, are so strangely weird ...
Its undoubedtly because you're the only poster here that makes perfect sense all the time while everyone else is plain strangely weird. As one of the many weirdos you are surrounded by I just don't get what the rest of your post had to do with tempest_77's reccomendations and personal favourites. Other than I've noticed that "having favourites" in any way is a great sin towards both art in itself and the artist - except when you recommend some of your favourites yourself of course. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 07:36
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

...Its undoubedtly because you're the only poster here that makes perfect sense all the time while everyone else is plain strangely weird.
...

You could at least have said that I don't bother with everyone else's darling! It's that socialist view of the top ten, that I dislike, but I'm not sure you would see that ... folks only like it because it is listed, not because of any redeeming values, because your comment does not show any values, except a personal statement, and that is unfair to the music and the choices.

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... none of the hits, none of the time ... now you know what the art is all about!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 08:39
Socialist? Surely if it was socialist they'd all have the same rating and ranking? Now if you want to say its the result of dumbing down to the most known & therefore most voted for fair enough, there's certainly a herd mentality about it.
Ian



Anyone who thinks Kansas is Prog get out of the room - Adolf Hitler



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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 10:38
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

...Its undoubedtly because you're the only poster here that makes perfect sense all the time while everyone else is plain strangely weird.
...

You could at least have said that I don't bother with everyone else's darling! It's that socialist view of the top ten, that I dislike, but I'm not sure you would see that ... folks only like it because it is listed, not because of any redeeming values, because your comment does not show any values, except a personal statement, and that is unfair to the music and the choices.
You seem to be bothered by everyone else the most of all. Personally I don't give a flying f**k about the top ten. I know it exists somehow but like any other chart it has no relevance or influence on me or what I listen to. And I don't see how a chart based on ratings/popularity is socialist. A chart is always like a contest in one way or another. 
-First and foremost I just don't like how you approach other forum members/people and how you read stuff into their comments that's rarely there... among other things. That a potential "value" I guess.
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