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Listening through the Top 100

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tempest_77 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tempest_77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2018 at 14:07
I did I guess move from classical to prog, albeit with a lot in the middle. My personal favourites that I would start with are Genesis, King Crimson, Yes, Jethro Tull, and Marillion, as well as some modern bands that are quite good as well. If you like classical the Phish albums Junta and Rift are very heavily classically influenced. They have a few heavily composed, classically influenced songs on most of their records too; I'd say Guyute, Time Turns Elastic, and Petrichor are the best of the lot.
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2018 at 06:38
Originally posted by tempest_77 tempest_77 wrote:

I did I guess move from classical to prog, albeit with a lot in the middle. My personal favourites that I would start with are Genesis, King Crimson, Yes, Jethro Tull, and Marillion, as well as some modern bands that are quite good as well.
...

If I may suggest, and I am the oddball here sometimes, simply forget the top 5 bands and go listen to something else ... if you came from "classical music" (and now I doubt it due to your postings!), you would know that there are composers and music elsewhere, and you have not tackled BANCO, PFM, ANGE, and even the German contingent, TERJE, GARBAREK (specially early days), GISMONTI, HADEN ... and so many others that make the definition of music look silly, stupid, and above all ... immature.

While those bands have music that I love dearly, they are not the "top" for me, and never will be. There is far more music out there, that you and I have never heard, to consider one band this or that ... that's just sad, and totally uneducated and off kilter, when it comes to music, and its abilities and sources.

Of those 5 bands you mention, only KC might be considered a bit "classical" and it is not quite/necessarily on their compositional side, one of the strongest in rock music, but their approach to the music and their presentation is highly classical, and defies the definition of the poor rock music out there that is liked by so many folks ... and is just another top ten song! And I do not believe that any musical definition of most of those 5 bands you now "prefer" actually stand up in a true music class ... some KC pieces will ... but the rest can take a flying leap into the toilet!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... now you know what the art is all about!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2018 at 07:46
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by tempest_77 tempest_77 wrote:

I did I guess move from classical to prog, albeit with a lot in the middle. My personal favourites that I would start with are Genesis, King Crimson, Yes, Jethro Tull, and Marillion, as well as some modern bands that are quite good as well.
...
... if you came from "classical music" (and now I doubt it due to your postings!) and even the German contingent, TERJE, GARBAREK (specially early days)
= the norwegian TERJE RYPDAL (and JAN GARBAREK) I presume

-but why so suspicious or even mean? You seriously doubt that tempest_77 "moved from classical to prog" because you know that composers are everywhere to be found? Why would someone pretend something like that? I would guess he simply hasn't heard the artists and bands you namecheck, yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2018 at 10:45
It appears not charitable, disrespectful, quite ridiculous and unwarranted.   I believe in principles of charity that not only include treating people as intelligent, really "listening" to what the other has to say, and generally trying to put their arguments/ideas in the strongest form possible (steelmanning as opposed to straw man arguments), but also when it comes to treating people as sincere (unless they are joking around etc.). That said, the comment conceivably could be intended as gentle ribbing (good-natured teasing) which is not meant to be taken at all seriously, which would be a charitable interpretation.

Edited by Logan - August 12 2018 at 10:48
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2018 at 20:25
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

It appears not charitable, disrespectful, quite ridiculous and unwarranted.   I believe in principles of charity that not only include treating people as intelligent, really "listening" to what the other has to say, and generally trying to put their arguments/ideas in the strongest form possible (steelmanning as opposed to straw man arguments), but also when it comes to treating people as sincere (unless they are joking around etc.). That said, the comment conceivably could be intended as gentle ribbing (good-natured teasing) which is not meant to be taken at all seriously, which would be a charitable interpretation.

It is, just plain weird and strange, TO ME, that some postings here, at times, are so strangely weird ... one might as well ask what "progressive" or "prog" is, before even posting. There has never been any doubt that "progressive" got a kiss from classical music, and you can go back to the Moody Blues in DAYS OF FUTURE PASSED, with long cuts, and even an orchestra. 

In those days, and it was what brought me to PROGRESSIVE, it was the fact that some bands were doing bits and pieces of classical music, as an inspiration, that got my attention much further, and to see/hear, someone state that, rubbed me incorrectly, though I was not trying to be rude ... mostly curious as to how all the knowledge about classical music and its details, all of a sudden are totally forgotten and a rock song, which normally has the simplest anything in music history, all of a sudden seems to be a better conduit of a feeling. 

FOR OUR DAYS and AGE, the electric materials will ALWAYS, have more attention, as it is what we are brought up with, when in my case, in the 50's and 60's I was brought up in a house that had over 2K LP's of classical music and over 100 operas, which tells you that having heard so much, and already being familiar with a lot of composers and their work, a lot of rock songs did not stand up, including the Beatles and just about anything else. 

To me, however, these were not INFERIOR in any way. To me, and this is important, this was my generation creating their own music and adding it to the cannon of all music in history, not just "classical", and that was valuable, since the popular side of music and other types of music, were grossly under-represented in the history of music books, that are found in schools.

I can understand, and remember the exhaustive post one time about CLOSE TO THE EDGE, and its classical design, folks making a connection ... but as much as I enjoy JETHRO TULL, it will never be "better" or "more appreciated" than a TURANDOT, or CARMEN, or 5th, or 7th, or a 3rd by another composer. 

This is the part that is scary for me, since what it comes down to, is the idea that a lot of the posting stuff has very little in terms of history of music, to be able to make sense of a lot of music and its progression through the aethers of life! I may appreciate something like YETI, but while that is classical music to my ears done by my generation, I can not compare it to the music history of 100 or 200 years ago, although, for ANY piece of music to have survived that long, is definitely a valuable story.

To me, what the posting was saying, was missing a natural history of music ... and when you say that Beethoven is your favorite, it is like saying that the Beatles are crap ... and that is not true! Conversely, the opposite is also true, and I'm often careful in that area, because it is one spot where the tastes, even here, have a tendency to dismiss classical music in favor of their favorite ... this or that! That is not historical, and neither is it intelligent look at music, I do not believe.
... none of the hits, none of the time ... now you know what the art is all about!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2018 at 04:24
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

It is, just plain weird and strange, TO ME, that some postings here, at times, are so strangely weird ...
Its undoubedtly because you're the only poster here that makes perfect sense all the time while everyone else is plain strangely weird. As one of the many weirdos you are surrounded by I just don't get what the rest of your post had to do with tempest_77's reccomendations and personal favourites. Other than I've noticed that "having favourites" in any way is a great sin towards both art in itself and the artist - except when you recommend some of your favourites yourself of course. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2018 at 07:36
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

...Its undoubedtly because you're the only poster here that makes perfect sense all the time while everyone else is plain strangely weird.
...

You could at least have said that I don't bother with everyone else's darling! It's that socialist view of the top ten, that I dislike, but I'm not sure you would see that ... folks only like it because it is listed, not because of any redeeming values, because your comment does not show any values, except a personal statement, and that is unfair to the music and the choices.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2018 at 08:39
Socialist? Surely if it was socialist they'd all have the same rating and ranking? Now if you want to say its the result of dumbing down to the most known & therefore most voted for fair enough, there's certainly a herd mentality about it.
Ian



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2018 at 10:38
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

...Its undoubedtly because you're the only poster here that makes perfect sense all the time while everyone else is plain strangely weird.
...

You could at least have said that I don't bother with everyone else's darling! It's that socialist view of the top ten, that I dislike, but I'm not sure you would see that ... folks only like it because it is listed, not because of any redeeming values, because your comment does not show any values, except a personal statement, and that is unfair to the music and the choices.
You seem to be bothered by everyone else the most of all. Personally I don't give a flying f**k about the top ten. I know it exists somehow but like any other chart it has no relevance or influence on me or what I listen to. And I don't see how a chart based on ratings/popularity is socialist. A chart is always like a contest in one way or another. 
-First and foremost I just don't like how you approach other forum members/people and how you read stuff into their comments that's rarely there... among other things. That a potential "value" I guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoeDent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2018 at 14:37
Originally posted by Androcleas Androcleas wrote:

I must try Talk Talk too. I guess the thing I am a little wary of is when Rock groups try to rip off classical tunes (Bach, Tchaikovsky or whatever) with electric guitars and drums. That always sounds pretty naff to me... ELP worst offender so far.


To me it sounds just as naff the other way round too, when orchestras try and play rock songs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wahidovic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2018 at 13:11
ConfusedEmbarrassedhanks for the proposals. I will have a tune in to Art Zoyd and Univers Zero. I discovered Henry Cow (I hopped ahead to tune in to Western Culture, when I saw individuals were stating it was 'troublesome' music) very intriguing - so might want to attempt more RIO. Much appreciated additionally for the King Crimson proposals.SmileSmile I will look at those as well. Magma was different to me and positively not exactly what I was hoping to hear on a prog shake list. I very preferred their music. They help me to remember Stravinsky's Les NocesLOL more than Carl Orff, I think,Big smileDeadDead since they don't appear to have any of Orff's moderate inclinations (that turn out to be more plain in his later musical dramas). I figure with Magma, it simply doesn't appear to be very as unique, when your reference point is twentieth penny established. Many present day traditional writers have done surprising things with choirs and instrumentation (Schnittke with his bunches and electric guitars springs to mind, however Ligeti as well).OuchOuchLOL I like Van der Graaf Generator, particularly Pawn Hearts, however now and again I discover Peter Hammill's vocals a bit OTT
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Edited by wahidovic - October 17 2018 at 02:09
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2018 at 09:00
Originally posted by Androcleas Androcleas wrote:

...
But prog rock is more immediate and exciting. Has anyone else here moved from classical to prog rock? Any tips?...

I started with classical music, as my dad had a massive collection of LP's and over 50 operas, for example.

For me, rock music had what classical music, specially opera, was lacking ... the emotional depth. Things like the works of Puccini, Verdi and so many other composers are about an imagined "emotional depth" and as is the case with Mahler, the stories about so many of the pieces, like his wife left him, and he had composed a Symphony for her ... and those kinds of things.

Rock music, does one thing, that was great at the start, but is now, very poor in general ... it TELLS YOU what this and that is all about, and leaves no space for you to define the music. I'm not sure that is a good thing, since when compared to previous examples, it's almost like saying that the older music did not have any emotional context and neither did the "lyrics" (in the case of an opera or the like), and you and I know that is not true.

The most important part of the list, is that it was a time for new instruments, and the chance to express one self with them, and that made it sound like "new music", when, sometimes, if you unplug it ... you will find there is not much new in there at all ... but there are some extreme and outstanding examples ... go check out Rachel Flowers and her piano (or organ) solo efforts of Keith Emerson's material and specially that stuff that comes from ELP ... all of a sudden, when you hear TARKUS on the piano, you can not help say ... that is a magnificent piece of composition and deserves more attention ... fur the issue, and sometimes all too clear here, is that we have a nasty tendency to look at it all as a "song", and not as "music", though some criticize me for saying that and that it is all "music". I do not specifically say that a song is not music, but the process and design of the music is more centered on a small design, than the more free form material that is found in classical music ... though I can not say that many here have said that Symphony such and such is full of meandering, like they do so many of the longer pieces of music in rock ... funny they don't say that about jazz ... it's weird, actually!

My only tip, is ... listen to it for what it is, not what it is supposed to be. I do not consider any of those albums any different than anything from classical music from the past 600 years ... to me they are music done by a much younger generation, and unlike 100 years ago, we have the advantage of the media and we can hear these things, when in those old days, no one really knew much of any music except what you heard in the local bar, or occasional concert hall party!

To me, a lot of that music is nothing but classical music by my generation, despite its form being defined as "rock music" and my hope is that in the future that separation disappears ... to me there is no black and white ... there is just humanity! 

Same thing for music! There are some definitions to help define a particular this and that, but in general, it is all about the human nature in all of us ... 
... none of the hits, none of the time ... now you know what the art is all about!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote wiz_d_kidd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2018 at 08:14
Originally posted by Androcleas Androcleas wrote:

I have mainly been into classical music for a long time (largely 20th century, although I like all periods). A friend challenged me to have a go at listening to progressive rock seriously, so I found the list on this site and have since been working my way through it. I've now listened to the first 75 or so albums. 

First impressions - there is a lot of very interesting stuff here. Classical - Bartok, Shostakovich, Stravinsky, but also Messiaen, Ligeti and certain other more recent composers - is probably more difficult to listen to (modernist classical is probably more challenging even than Henry Cow) and usually (though not always) has greater depth. But prog rock is more immediate and exciting. Has anyone else here moved from classical to prog rock? Any tips?

When I've got to the end of the first 100, I'll have another listen and post some more thoughts-  since some of these albums aren't too straightforward, I'd like to do them justice. So far, I'm most impressed by Genesis, King Crimson, Gentle Giant and Anglagard. 


Perhaps you'd be interested in an artist who, like yourself, made a transition from classical music to prog?  Give a listen to The Psychedelic Ensemble (TPE). 

Here's the Bandcamp link: https://thepsychedelicensemble.bandcamp.com/
And a link to the official website: http://www.thepsychedelicensemble.com/

I suggest starting with the most recent albums (Tale of the Golden King, The Sunstone), and working your way back in time.

TPE is not a band per se.  It is the efforts primarily of one man who wishes to remain anonymous. His background is classical composition. He taught composition and counterpoint at a major university, and has 30+ ASCAP awards for his classical works. His prog compositions are considered "symphonic prog" and reflect his amazing classical background. He composed, played most instruments, recorded, and arranged everything in his home studio. He used a couple of guest artist to play violin and oboe and (female) vocals.

Read the interviews on his official site to get a better sense of his background. Sadly, he seems to have gone on hiatus after a number of apparent upheavals in his personal life.  I hope he returns.

I hope you enjoy his music as much as I do.  The Tale of the Golden King just floors me every time I listen to it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dopeydoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2018 at 15:18
I played classic music as part of my college symphonic orchestra some fifty years ago. I enjoyed Dvorjak, Sibelius and Pink Floyd.
The prog band closest to classical music for me is The Enid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2018 at 07:25
Originally posted by Dopeydoc Dopeydoc wrote:

I played classic music as part of my college symphonic orchestra some fifty years ago. I enjoyed Dvorjak, Sibelius and Pink Floyd.
The prog band closest to classical music for me is The Enid.

BANCO, probably fits this as well. I also think ANGE belongs, in their early days, but folks have a tendency to think that it is a GENESIS copy, and that theatrical staging was not something that was done in Europe before GENESIS, and for a long time. if you read EUROCK, you will find an interview with OSANNA that toured Italy with GENESIS some time BEFORE they took on costumes, and OSANNA still went on to do their staging.

Originality has a way of standing out sooner or later, but sadly, the media in London, could not accept that they did not discover the world, although they almost owned all of it at one time! That feeling, it feels like, still persists!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... now you know what the art is all about!
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