Closing the database? |
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TiddK
Forum Groupie Joined: August 08 2018 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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Posted: August 09 2018 at 04:36 |
Interesting discussion. Just to throw my two pennorth into the mix:
I think there are two distinct strains of 'prog' that could be usefully separated. 1. Truly progressive acts, which in the modern era would mean Goldfrapp (at her best), Mercury Rev, Steven Wilson, The Besnard Lakes, Explosions In The Sky, and the like. 2. Bands that hark back to the classic 'prog' era of the 70s and try to recreate it (which I regard as NOT progressive!). Bands I'd put in that category - and this is in no way a reflection on the quality of their rock music - would be artists like IQ and Big Big Train. There's a lot more to be said about progressive genres (let's not forget that soul music in the form of The Temptations post-69, Sly Stone, Stevie Wonder, etc, were truly progressive in every sense that we mean by it), but I'd best leave it there for now, as a noob!
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ReactioninG
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 26 2017 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 156 |
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It is possible that there will be a prog rock revival. The eighties has been creeping back into popular music, at least certain aesthetic elements of it. Music right now is at a total impasse. If there was a big change in the way it is distributed the floorboards will fall right through and some new and interesting music might see the light of day. It would probably call upon the past, the accomplishments of the 60s and 70s in particular, and you might see a real mirror of the Progressive Rock movement in that new music.
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addictedlabel
Forum Newbie Joined: July 29 2018 Location: Moscow, Russia Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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I think problem is not in new music, new prog music, genre debates (i believe it's some kind of crying of people that too old to check new music, u know, it's ok thing when we get older then 30\35 for most people, some people have than problem younger or later). Problem in database, that need hands to support it, update it, why you making own database when you have lots of databases, like RYM, discogs, musicbrain etc, maybe it's wasting of time and resources? Maybe PA need some integration to free resources for reviews, ratings, topics, comments?
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Man With Hat
Collaborator Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team Joined: March 12 2005 Location: Neurotica Status: Offline Points: 166178 |
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IIRC that problem lies with the system itself not supporting such a feature. It would require an upgrade which has been deemed to problematic to make for whatever reason. A higher up can correct me if my memory fails. (I may be confusing this with something else, as there have been many things that have been suggested for this place. :p)
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
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proghaven
Forum Newbie Joined: July 28 2013 Location: Moscow RUSSIA Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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No we cannot say that the evolution of prog rock HAS hit its best. We are aware only of what was but not of what's to come. Only 50 years of evolution have passed at the moment. Only half a century. Let's avoid rushing.
If we insist that Prog Archives is 'your ultimate prog ROCK resource', yes the policy in adding new bands to the database may be more strict. But if the current prog is less rocky than before, if the idea of prog widens and even slightly gets blurred, why not to replace with 'your ultimate prog MUSIC resource'? And why a delution of prog into pop cannot be considered a delution of pop into prog? Depends on visual angle I'd say... As for Metallica, personally I would be happy to throw it away from the PA database (and not only Metallica). But what's wrong with 'progressive rap' if it finally turns out? If metal can be progressive, why rap cannot? at least in theory?
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tempest_77
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 06 2018 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 1662 |
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Wasn't really what I was trying to say, I was just supporting the idea as I think it would help more accurately categorise certain artists' discographies.
Edit: While on the topic of things I wish we could inherit from MMA, I've just discovered that MMA allows half stars. I'll leave it there. Edited by tempest_77 - August 05 2018 at 23:31 |
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NotAProghead
Special Collaborator Errors & Omissions Team Joined: October 22 2005 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 7678 |
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^ ^ Guys, please don't invent bicycle. Bands/artists are in PA database, PA visitors add their new releases. Nobody knows without listening whether these releases are progressive, regressive etc. It may be clear from reviews.
As for me, it's more important to know how good or bad the album is, regardless of its "progressiveness".
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 14720 |
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^ i think most of us agree it would be a great thing. I think the problem resides in going through the massive database and changing them all. As someone who worked on MMA specifically tagging EVERY Buckethead album, i can tell you that it is a chore but of course we could start slowly and cautiously, still though i think it would be a welcome upgrade :)
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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
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tempest_77
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 06 2018 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 1662 |
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Wrote a whole long thing that captcha deleted, but the gist is that I agree with most of the points here. I think prog is still expanding, and I think Wobbler's latest masterpiece is a great indication as to why the database should remain open. The other part was in support of this idea. Both of our brother/sister/whatnot websites, Jazz Archives and Metal Music Archives, do genre tags by album, and I think it's a great idea that helps increase specificity and clarity of the website. I see it being useful for ProgArchives in two cases: for bands who, despite having some incredible prog releases, have long periods in which very little or none of their material was prog (e.g. Genesis, Queen, Queensr˙che); and for bands who span various prog sub-genres. There are several examples of this last one, like King Crimson, Kayo Dot, Anathema, Oceansize, and more, but the most notable one in my mind is Porcupine Tree. I was honestly surprised when I first saw them categorised as heavy prog on the website, because their first four albums, as well as most of their releases from their early days (1991-1997) are almost undeniably psych-prog/space rock.
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siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 14720 |
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As far as i see it, the site wants to attract new members and limiting to the golden years of prog would surely be a death sentence that the captchas haven't been able to complete.
The premise of this site is to be the ULTIMATE PROG WEBSITE. That includes prog related which has certainly not been without its controversy and confusion (speaking from personal experience), but despite the site not being perfect, it pretty much fulfills its objective. If we want to improve things, i'd be more for tagging by albums individually over bands therfore we could distinguish more easily which albums are progressive and which are not. Bands like Metallica, Queen, Led Zeppelin should surely be here under prog related because they definately contributed to prog rock / metal by having tracks or qualities of prog despite not fully being so. Think of these inclusions as if prog is a pure breed border collie and prog related as hybrid mixes of prog and non-prog. Having said that, there are certainly bands that got added by mistake it seems but oh well. Don't go to those pages
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HemispheresOfXanadu
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 28 2012 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4339 |
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Yes. Let's stagnate.
pro·gres·sive/prəˈɡresiv/adjective
noun
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@ProgFollower on Twitter. Tweet me muzak.
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progmatic
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 22 2009 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 1785 |
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If it bothers you to read about new music, only click on reviews of relics from the past. There are HUNDREDS of great PROG ROCK groups (like Anekdoten and Anglagaard) that I've discovered on this site and hundreds of new prog bands that aren't even listed (CuDa/KrishNa/CuDa; Papadios, This Picture, etc.) I don't want an archive devoted to dinosaurs, I want what we have -- a site that acknowledges the masters of the past while introducing us to the wonders of the present.
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PROGMATIC
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Man With Hat
Collaborator Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team Joined: March 12 2005 Location: Neurotica Status: Offline Points: 166178 |
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Except this is a progressive rock website not a progressive music website. And I say this as someone who likes a lot of jazz and 'out' music...but I'm ok with my favorite music not being included here. Also, just because mistakes were made in the past doesn't mean mistakes have to be made in the future. If this was something more important than an internet database that would be a pretty backwards logic to guide decisions.
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20468 |
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Is it a problem for the admins and mods to keep it open..? If not, then let it be.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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The.Crimson.King
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 29 2013 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 4591 |
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I don't think it makes sense to ever lock the doors and say we've already added all the prog that ever was, is or will be. That would be like marine biologists saying they've decided that they have found all the deep sea species that could possibly be so they'll stop looking. Whether it's some obscure 70's prog band from Vatican City that released 50 copies of a never before heard prog masterpiece, or a new band influenced by the old masters, there's always more prog out there to discover
I do think though that with all the subgenres and some bands we've included that we've cast too wide a net and diluted the meaning of progressive rock...but hey...that genie's out of the bottle so there's nothing to be done but scour the PA database to find bands you like and skip the rest...
Edited by The.Crimson.King - August 05 2018 at 11:24 |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16148 |
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Hi, I'm of the opinion that the definition of the genre was done by folks that were not as attuned to music and its varied history, that they invented an arbitrary set of conditions, to define what is "progressive" and then later, "prog". The problem is that all of those conditions exist in all music and in many things that we do not consider they should not be called music. So, to satisfy different versions, we create sub-categories, some of which are totally off kilter and their description is the silliest of them all … like "symphonic", which is something that many "progressive" bands actually are, and is a large part of their attraction … however, HOW it is symphonic seems to be the issue … so a band with 11 keyboards is symphonic, but 7th Wave is not. And then you got problems. Ange may be progressive, but never symphonic? Weird, and specially considering they used two keyboard players to make their music even better. Pretty soon, and I'm waiting with my ice cream cone and tutu, we will have rap and symphonic married … and then you will see, how we really screwed up all these definitions and killed the mode altogether. The term itself, is limiting to the music, since ALL MUSIC IS PROGRESSIVE, and it has been a GIANT PROGRESSION FOR OVER 500 OR MORE YEARS … but we refuse to accept that.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20503 |
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With the decline of the record industry due to piracy, the need for modern prog artists to go commercial or fuse prog with pop in order to gain record sales is over and done with. I can't think of any current prog groups like Spock's Beard, Marillion or Big Big Train, etc. that are doing anything along those lines. I think that the problem comes down to what we regard as prog nowadays and if this newer music should be open to PA.
Edited by SteveG - August 05 2018 at 10:14 |
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Hrychu
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 03 2013 Location: poland? Status: Offline Points: 4138 |
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HELL NO! Progarchives has always been a great way for me to find new exciting bands. Closing the database would close possibly the only door to amazing fresh music that's being made.
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Bez pierdolenia sygnał zerwie, to w realia wychodź w hełmie!
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Squonk19
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 03 2015 Location: Darlington, UK Status: Offline Points: 4706 |
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^ I agree. There is some great melodic prog rock being produced in recent years which is more complex, intriguing and inventive than stuff from the 80s where 'pop' success was being targeted by many bands.
I think the 'popular' charts are now so far removed from even pop/prog or melodic prog, that groups are just focused on making music they like playing - sometimes with a nod to the past sure, but also looking at ways of fusing together styles without barriers. Don't think this is the time to consider 2018 as Year Zero - keep the door open.... |
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Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 12 2011 Location: Melb, Australia Status: Offline Points: 7951 |
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Um, sure....if it was still the Eighties?! But seriously, that hasn't been a problem now for...I don't know, almost thirty years now! I couldn't begin to estimate the hundreds or more of prog-related bands active since the late Eighties/early Nineties that don't operate anywhere close to pop. And even the melodic tune based ones will usually offer plenty of inventive instrumentation to keep things interesting. |
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